Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #1

[indogwetrust]

Re: depression.

Heaps of people are walking around and living with depression and they are stable.

I understand it may introduce an element of uncertainty but not where someone has no history of behaving erratically or irresponsibly or plenty of other indicators.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

emphasis on the speculating here ... speculating that he did do it, wouldn't he, afterwards have started to make calls to the mobile which by now was nowhere in earshot of anyone, to make it look like he had legitimately tried to find her?

He'd have wanted to yes, likely the first question police asked.

 

[willough]

Her depression was probably more a lack of self esteem because the man she loved put other women before her. He did have a 2 year affair. That surely gives a woman reason to be depressed.....................and yes, that is of HIS doing. People dont just find out their husband is having an affair and move forward happily as though nothing happened.

Not because of some massive disorder.

 

[alicat]

I just read this on twitter - @renaehenry10 Baden-Clay investigation: it's understood Allison's husband Gerard is meeting with his lawyer in the city @tennewsqld

 

[indogwetrust]

What about that recent case where the brother was accused of killing his brother and his parents (can't remember the name or the details, an Aus case).

He had admitted to killing his brother but not the parents - yet all the victims had stab wounds?

The accused had apparently planted seeds of doubt about his brother's mental stability for weeks before the murder, to make it look like his brother had killed his parents, not him. That was clear to the first trial judge.

It's too easy to plant seeds of doubt just based on depression alone. We don't know to what extent Allison suffered it but we can see that she lived a stable life, she mothered and cared for her children.

And I can't help but take a look at her parents and how they have conducted themselves in stark contrast to his parents.

 

[Keyboredom]

Meanwhile Gerard who is used to living in this situation, cares for the situation but is not at all emotionally attached to her is suddenly in a situation where 1. He has been fighting with her, 2. She has disappeared 3. He was cheating on her 4. He has a scratch on his face from her attacking him 5. Being her husband he knows he would be the most obvious person of interest 6. He has been having financial problems. It all looks bad and he has to show some interest in her missing but in a sense is relieved that she has left. So he looks as guilty as sin, can’t sleep, knows everyone thinks he killed her. Smashes a car due to being overwhelmed from lack of sleep and pressure, short of money so he still has to work. Making poor choices due to his situation.

I agree with that part of your post in particular that a detached partner would show minimal care or emotion. Just his behaviour in that interview doesn't make the husband guilty. I totally disagree there is even the remotest possibility of suicide. I think Allison was probably dealing with same level of depression many wives would experience with what she'd been dealing with. She was a loved mother of 3 girls, the local dance teacher, and a lot of people who loved her outside her marriage, even if that was in trouble as suggested.

 

[ozazure]

indogwetrust, I believe you're talking about Jeff Gilham. I took quite a different story away from that case, Jeff made no attempt to cover up a crime, there was physical evidence support his story and it was when extended family had trouble over inheritance that his truthfulness was brought into question. He has recently been released to prison after an appeal although I believe there may be more legal proceedings down the road.

I haven't been following the media very closely, who bought up Allison's depression? I agree that most "normally" depressed people would not be considered suicidal so that going off for a walk and not returning, a family member fears they are at risk from themselves. It smacks of alibi building and disparaging the victim.

 

[alicat]

I haven't been following the media very closely, who bought up Allison's depression?

It states 'friends's brought it up.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/daughter...lison-baden-clay/story-fn6cmyjj-1226341362442

 

[indogwetrust]

Have to admit, I'm feeling a bit defensive about these suicide intimations. No offence Perth1, I know you're just putting it out there.

But you also have to follow such a hypothesis to its logical conclusion - Allison was upset, left then what ... trudged all the way over to Kholo creek and chose that bridge to throw herself off?

If you were intent on ending your life you'd do it much more expeditiously. It makes no sense what you are suggesting on a number of levels.

You'd also expect to clear your head on such a journey and would be rather exhausted by the time you got there.

 

[indogwetrust]

indogwetrust, I believe you're talking about Jeff Gilham. I took quite a different story away from that case, Jeff made no attempt to cover up a crime, there was physical evidence support his story and it was when extended family had trouble over inheritance that his truthfulness was brought into question. He has recently been released to prison after an appeal although I believe there may be more legal proceedings down the road.

I haven't been following the media very closely, who bought up Allison's depression? I agree that most "normally" depressed people would not be considered suicidal so that going off for a walk and not returning, a family member fears they are at risk from themselves. It smacks of alibi building and disparaging the victim.

This is why I raised that case as an example - not on the circumstances re: admission of guilt but the way he sowed seeds of doubt about his brother's mental capacity weeks beforehand.

I don't know if Gerard has done his but he must have reported Allison's depression and offered it as a possibility in the beginning to add substance to his claim that it was she who left the house.

 

[alicat]

Another article does say Allison's 'sister-in-law said the normally well-balanced woman had suffered from depression'

He has not spoken to the media much so she was the main speaker of the house.

 

[crissyz]

I actually expected the husband and his family to push more along the lines of her depression and unstable-ness.....

Regardless, I don't think no matter how depressed, she would commit suicide and leave those beautiful children with a man she doens't love or probably respect. her girls are probably one of the things that keep her going if she was that depressed.

 

[marlywings]

Have to admit, I'm feeling a bit defensive about these suicide intimations. No offence Perth1, I know you're just putting it out there.

But you also have to follow such a hypothesis to its logical conclusion - Allison was upset, left then what ... trudged all the way over to Kholo creek and chose that bridge to throw herself off?

If you were intent on ending your life you'd do it much more expeditiously. It makes no sense what you are suggesting on a number of levels.

You'd also expect to clear your head on such a journey and would be rather exhausted by the time you got there.

Or she would have driven off into the night with the car found somewhere the next day?? I don't go at all with the "poor poor guy was living a life of hell with a depressed wife".

 

[willough]

Could she have hitchhiked to Kholo Creek?....I know she couldnt walk it.

I agree indogwetrust about feeling almost offended at the thought that Allison may have taken her own life. I just cant think anyone with an ounce of logic would want to leave their children......But, yep perth1 is just putting it out there. Just like Alicat was putting her thoughts about the sister out there.

Oh heck, the other day I went overboard (in my head) thinking this was something more...............ie political.....With all the Libs visiting, Campbell Newman throwing himself into the blend, stating he would help the police commissioner to leave no stone unturned. I know now it was just them being supportive, but I was wondering a) How close knit is GBC with the Libs? b) With the Libs just being elected, did she perhaps know something that could compromise something? and they needed her dead........................we all run rampant with our theories....and I know I am a major conspiracy theorist. It was just the Libs being supportive.

 

[Cccclllaareb]

"Living with a person who is depressed can be very difficult in my opinion and can be harder than the person that has depression or a personality disorder. You would always get blamed for her depression even if it is unrelated to you. For instance, you just are unable to satisfy her unreasonable needs so you end up looking like the bad guy"

Perth1, I think that's quite a harsh view of people with depression! Sure it may be hard to live with someone who is depressed, but believe me-being depressed is harder. To say you would always get blamed and look like a bad guy when you can't 'satisfy her unreasonable needs'- I really disagree with that. I'm talking about depressed people in general- not Allison. And sorry, yes I just got a little sidetracked I just don't like to see stigma around mental illness being perpetuated.

ANYWAY! As others have said, she was doing a great job mothering her 3 girls and those who knew her did not believe her to be suicidal. I think it's quite obvious this wasn't a suicide (why would she be down in the creek if that was the case anyway). Just because someone is depressed doesn't mean they are unstable and about to kill themselves. Not to mention, the police have made it quite clear this is a homicide investigation.

I hope finding the sim card proves to be helpful! It would be great to get a hold of her iPhone as well. I really hope for her family's sake there is a swift resolution, and for the little girls I hope it isn't Gerard. It would be dreadful for them to lose both parents :-(

 

[Stick]

Do any of the locals posting in this forum know of any traffic monitoring cameras or CCTV located between the Baden-Clay house and the location of the body at Kholo Creek? (e.g. Mogill Road, Mt Crosby Road, Rafting Ground Road)

 

[itsthevibe]

Perth1 - I understand the concepts behind your hypothesis but I find many aspects of what you say objectionable, almost indicating it is OK to cheat in certain circumstances and blaming the wife. This sort of attitude is what is wrong with so many marriages where there is infidelity. Blame your partner for not being good enough, or being 'a problem' if they get upset at some of your bad behaviour. Then say the partner is difficult, she suffers from depression, and consider it a burden! This version sounds like the way a man uses to justify his infidelity. Many men are brought up not to be emotionally available and GBC has been raised in a family which might have been like that - a bit weird (the kiss is an example) and proud hunters of a range of animals which they truly show off, not even on a den wall in the house - but in a very visible front entry of the house which can be seen through glass even if doors are not open.

It is also quite possible the story happened in reverse in almost every aspect of what you say. What if Allison eventually realised that her husband had anger problems, was psychologically abusive, and a massive flirt with other women? Perhaps he wasnt emotionally available or very caring in certain situations. Then eventually she discovered he was having an affair. They slept in separate rooms for the sake of the children but she was hopeful he would end the affair and they could patch things together. Someone who knows members of her circle of friends well said she found out about the affair sometime ago and he told her he had ended it, but recently she found out he had not. Remember also there was a man who posted about halfway through this thread who described property dealings he and his wife had with GBC. He said GBC flirted with the wife on several occasions, once blatantly in front of him, the husband.

So maybe they had an argument about the affair, he basically didnt want to end it and didnt like her being upset about it, and lost it and hurt her and it went from there.

As for covering up her suicide, I really dont believe an innocent man would do it this way. He could have still given a story that covered his own back but gave police the true version so they would know where the body was. An innocent person in my opinion wouldnt have allowed hundreds of police and emergency workers to work for 10 days straight in the rain and cold to try to find a body, and go through all this when they didnt actually kill her.

It's good to read other opinions of different aspects of this on here, but some posts seem very much having a motive of defending him whereas most of us are exploring the most likely possibilities. Despite the fact that most comments are leaning towards GBC being the perpetrator, I dont think anyone has been against him per se, its just that there are too many things that can't be explained away in his case, even when trying to look at it from different angles.

 

[alicat]

Could she have hitchhiked to Kholo Creek?....I know she couldnt walk it.

I drove past that night at around 8.30 and I honestly can't tell you if or not I saw a car. I can't be 100% sure because there have been random cars on that road lately.

But if she did hitch who drove her? Someone would have called the police by now for sure, you'd hope?

If someone asked me to drop them off there I wouldn't! No way! I couldn't

 

[alicat]

Do any of the locals posting in this forum know of any traffic monitoring cameras or CCTV located between the Baden-Clay house and the location of the body at Kholo Creek? (e.g. Mogill Road, Mt Crosby Road, Rafting Ground Road)

I don't believe there are any. I can't picture any out at Mount Crosby but is there one near the new Fire Station intersection - Pullenvale Road?

 

[Thinking]

I live locally too - I have been very touched by this case and my heart is aching for Allison and her family. I just wanted to say that this forum has been so therapeutic for me – I’ve been reading it from the very beginning and I feel like we have all been through the shock, anticipation, frustration, bewilderment and grief of Allison’s disappearance together, if that makes sense.


I must admit I do have the same questions as Nursebeeme about the sim card, and the actual phone for that matter. If this altercation happened with GBC at home, I can’t imagine what would be on her phone that would incriminate him at that time. Why wouldn’t he have just left it at home with her handbag and personal belongings etc – can someone help me out?


For those of you who know her (or who have friends who know her) - I wonder if there is any chance at all, that she might have gone out to meet someone that night? I'm certainly not trying to cast her in any type of light by this question - just wondering if there is any possibility of this at all? God knows, if my husband had been having an affair under my nose for two years I would feel more than entitled to find some pleasure in my personal life - but of course I'm not suggesting this as likely, just wondering if there is possibly another scenario. If Allison was going out to meet someone that night, this would shed a whole different light on the circumstances, do you think?


It has been mentioned here that the couple were sleeping in separate bedrooms. So really, it is feasible that he could say goodnight to her as she watched telly, then go to bed and not expect to see her again until the morning. I think the GBC texting and ringing friends story is a furphy as it has only been mentioned once in the press and not repeated, as far as I know. What if she then went out to meet someone, after he went to bed? In her car? She would likely text message the person, then take her phone with her in that case. An earlier post here said that apparently her car was left at the B’field Showgrounds that night which seemed very bizarre – but what if she met this person, they hurt her and left her (near the scout camp to implicate hubby), got rid of the phone and card then drove her car back to the showgrounds so as not to wake anyone by driving it back to her house? I guess there would need to be a third party involved to get the driver away after that - unless this other person lived locally too I guess.

And what if the police are happy for us to all be thinking it is GBC so that this other person gets relaxed and too confident, and perhaps slip up? GBC himself might even know this person?

Maybe this is totally far fetched and I hope I haven’t offended anyone by this speculation. I just don’t want to face the fact that a man could hurt the beautiful mother of his children, a woman he once loved and cherished and created a family with. It is too hard to accept