Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #3

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I think it is artistic liberty here on behalf of the CM journalist which is not suprising:banghead:

Yes you're probably right aaagh.
When you're trying to work something out it's always a bit depressing when your best sources of info are news reporters, friends of friends, or hairdressers :-(
One of my friends tried to tell me some info today- which they heard from a friend who went to a hairdresser. I was like please just dont even tell me! Haha
 
I'd hate for my computer to be seized at the moment. With all of the things I've been searching this past week it would certainly raise some eyebrows if they went back through my browsing history!!!
 
I'd hate for my computer to be seized at the moment. With all of the things I've been searching this past week it would certainly raise some eyebrows if they went back through my browsing history!!!

same as my computer lol
 
From the time the first message went up on the police page i have never put the blame on anyone as i wasn't there. Also as i think i left a message here saying i joined this page because the police kept deleting comments. Most of them were much the same as on this page which is apparently not allowed on their page. I even noticed now that some of the media pages are putting messages up. I just had a thought though (still not accusing anyone) but would anyone know if it's common for a canoe to be in the area where allison was found??? Or could the person have known something considering it was supposedly a canoeist that found her???

I've just found this link: One small sentence stipulates "No canoeing downstream from here" (Kholo Bridge)

http://wikimapia.org/1766342/Kholo-Bridge
 
If you were trying to make someone think that the person you murdered committed suicide, putting them near the bottom of a bridge would be a good option.

And....if you didn't want to be seen doing so, you'd place them near the bottom rather than throwing them off . That way they would stay put too, and not float away.
 
Interesting - the way the body is placed gives the police MOUNTAINS of information about the way the murder was committed. A staging often occurs when the perpatrator is trying to thwart the investigation.

So the types of injuries the body has will be established and the behaviour of the suspects will be observed they will develop a profile of the victim and see if this agrees with the autopsy findings and evidence. The fact they have said this is homicide is quite telling!

Exactly. This an unlawful homicide and has been investigated as such for quite a while.

This is the exact meaning of this term:

Chapter 28 of the Criminal Code (Qld) sets out the offences relating to Homicide.

Unlawful Homicide is set out under section 300, which makes any person who unlawfully kills another guilty of a crime, which is either murder or manslaughter, according to the circumstances of the case. Section 291 and 293 set out what constitutes an unlawful killing. Once it is established that the killing is unlawful it can then either be classified as murder (defined in s302 and punished in s305) or manslaughter (defined in s303 and punished in s310).

Unlawful Killing

Section 291 makes it unlawful to kill any person, unless the killing is authorised or justified by law. Section 293 defines killing as ‘causing the death of another, directly or indirectly, by any means whatever’.

There must be a causal connection between the act by the accused and the death. In R v Pagett (1983) 76 Cr App R 279 it was held that the accused person’s act need not be the sole cause of the victim’s death, so long as it contributed significantly. An example of this is in Royall v R (1991) 172 CLR 378. Here the crown argued that the deceased died in one of three ways; the third was by jumping from the window to escape a well founded apprehension that she would be subjected to further violence from the accused. The High Court held that an act of self preservation, which caused the death, does not break this causal connection.

In R v Blaue 60 Cr App R 271 it was held that the death of the victim was caused by loss of blood as a result of the stab wounds inflicted by the defendant. The victim, due to her religion had refused a blood transfusion. The defendant was found to have killed the victim.

Murder

Section 302 sets out the circumstances which a person who unlawfully kills will be guilty of murder.
1.If the offender intends to kill or cause grievous bodily harm to the person killed or some other person;
2.If the death is caused by means of an act done in the prosecution of an unlawful purpose and the act is of a nature likely to endanger human life;
3.If the offender intends to do grievous bodily harm to some person for the purpose of facilitating the commission of a crime or for the purpose of facilitating the flight of an offender who has committed or attempted to commit such a crime. The crime must be such that the offender may be arrested without warrant;
4.If death is caused by administering any stupefying or overpowering thing for either of the purposes mentioned in paragraph (3);
5.If death is caused by wilfully stopping the breath of any person for either of the listed purposes.

In R v Moloney (1985) 81 Cr App R 93 it was held that the mental element in murder consists of an intention to kill or cause serious injury and not merely of foresight that death or serious injury will be a probable consequence of their act.

A person who is found guilty of murder, under section 305, is liable to life imprisonment or an indefinite sentence (Part 10 Penalties and Sentences Act 1992). Further, if the defendant is being sentenced on more than one conviction of murder, or another offence of murder is being taken into account the person may not be released from imprisonment until a minimum of 20 years has been served.

Manslaughter

Section 303 provides that a person who unlawfully kills another under such circumstances as not to constitute murder is guilty of manslaughter. A person who is guilty of Manslaughter under section 310 is liable to a maximum sentence of imprisonment for life.

Attempt to Murder

Section 306 makes it an offence to attempt to unlawfully kill another person. A person found guilty of attempted murder is liable to imprisonment for life.

Aiding Suicide

Section 311 makes it an offence to procure, counsel or aid another to kill himself/herself. A person found guilty of aiding suicide is liable to imprisonment for life.

Partial Defences

There are various partial defences available in the Criminal Code for Murder.
•Section 304- Killing on Provocation. If a person murders another and the act which causes the death is done in the heat of passion caused by sudden provocation, before there is time for the persons passion to cool, the person is guilty of manslaughter only.
•Section 204A- Diminished Responsibility. If a person murders another and the act which causes death is done when the accused is in such a state of abnormality of mind as to substantially impair their capacity to understand what they are doing, or to control their actions, or to know that they ought not to do the act, the person is guilty of manslaughter only.
•Section 304B- Killing in an abusive domestic relationship. If a person murders and the deceased has committed serious domestic violence on that person in the course of a relationship, and that person believes that their actions were necessary to preserve their life then that person will be guilty of manslaughter only.
 
Even in an advanced state of decomposition, broken bones are easily identified. The forensic investigators that would have been on site prior to her remains being removed would have been able to identify broken bones very quickly as this is something they do every day. They would not have had to wait for the autopsy to establish this fact.

As mentioned in my previous post, I work in a funeral home and we deal with these types of things on a daily basis so I am talking from experience.

That may be the case, but there is also the consideration that the police have kept all findings about the body close to their chest until they get everything possilbe from post-autopsy testing. I think they don't have quite enough evidence and want to make sure of themselves before an arrest, and they need every last little shred to actually charge the person they think it is. So I'm gessing it would be even more important to keep anything to themselves that the murderer might also hear and get a heads-up on.

If they are going to be able to charge someone, I would say they will have a strategy and they will work that strategy to best advantage. That said, i am still quite worried they don't have enough, especially if they can't get anything from the fingernails of the victim, and if she has been smothered. if they can get DNA from the fingernails, and she has been strangled they will also have bone and connective tissue evidence. the fingernails are pretty important because of GBC having scratches.
 
After signing out last night i thought to myself we should only be discussing stuff that the police have already talked about. All the stuff about affairs, previous DV, business/financial problems etc shouldn't really be discussed unless there is proof. If the police thought there was previous DV i would be thinking they wouldn't let the kids be in the house with him.

The financial problems are documented here: http://www.news.com.au/staff-left-a...usiness-suffered/story-e6freoof-1226344121450
 
Thanks for the info about the office location of the female. :)

This is starting to remind me of the Maria Korp case.

Hasn't someone who is more knowledgeable already said that the female does not work in an office at the roundabout any more. I thought she used to work in a real estate office there, but has left the industry some time ago.
 
Is there any new info today from the Press,,,i have spent most of the day reading Info on here and not had a chnce to read the press?

Have we got any new news today..QLD people would still see it more then me .. I am in NSW and the news is dwindling fast here.

Have we seen any movements from the GBC camp?
 
I found the Journalist's description of the events a bit ambiguous too.
This could be attributed to inadequate sentence/paragraph structure similar to the following example:
"The grateful soldier relaxed after years of battle in his living room."
"The man walks slowly down to the saloon with the cowboy boots. "

Or even punctuation LOL

The writer punctuates her comments like this...

“That Friday was a busy day for her. She had a full-day conference in town and the kids were having a sleepover that night, so she would have got all her stuff ready

Change a comma and a full stop and you get this...

“That Friday was a busy day for her, she had a full-day conference in town. And the kids were having a sleepover that night, so she would have got all her stuff ready.

We're taught, when writing, not to start a sentence with the word "And" but when we speak, we always do. I can't find any video footage of the friend speaking to know how she said it.

Some may think this is not important, but imo, whether the kids were home or not is important when it comes to opportunity. The person had no fear being caught in the act or having any witnesses.
 
My heart also goes out to the canoeist who found her. What a thing to face!

What is it with canoeists anyway? I've done a lot of crime reading and the amount of canoeists that find murder victims amazes me.
I know it IS very much a growing sport here in Australia though. My brother just bought a 2 seated and takes his dog out.
 
Hasn't someone who is more knowledgeable already said that the female does not work in an office at the roundabout any more. I thought she used to work in a real estate office there, but has left the industry some time ago.

I am unsure. I'm confused about who this ex-colleague is as she has never been named. Who knows if it is the same person or a different one. All I am aware of is that a female ex-colleague has been spoken to three times and one of those times was for FOUR HOURS. Maybe she has been interviewed as a witness.
 
Assuming that GBC is infact narcissitic so many of the usual things go out the window! The Narcisist is a breed unto their own...
My sister was married to one and TBH from what I read about ABC I can see her and my sister with so many similar traits... If this is infact the case I feel for her more than I can express... Life with a narcisistic pr!ck is hell on earth... For my sister, her marriage ended in a suicide attempt as she saw no other way to escape from him, the day she attempted, he'd already left in a truck with sheep onboard and willingly told me days later that that night he killed 6 sheep with his bare hands for varying reasons... He'd been so infuriated that day and told his wife that she loved the washing machine more than him?? WTF??? He was an emotionally abusive narcisistic pr!ck and from all I've read, I see GBC in the same light!
Sorry, I know that this is off topic, I've seen inside a narcisistic marriage and it aint pretty, you wouldn't believe it if you didn't see it! From the outside it's such a different picture!
 
With suffocation they can trace what kind of pillow was used by checking her airways for fibres. From there they would likely be able to check if these pillows were kept in the home (I don't know about other people but my pillows are all the same brand). Then they could test those pillows to find which one was used to suffocate, check fingerprints, etc.

I've just realised that they haven't mentioned that they are looking for a murder weapon. So my guess would be that it was something that was done without a weapon. My guess is that drugging, strangulation and suffocation are the likely causes. Unless I've missed something.
 
Regarding the trust fund for the girls to attend Ipswich Girls Grammar School. I am certain that IGGS, like most private schools, has a scholarship system in place and would under these tragic circumstances provide free schooling for the girls. I've seen this happen before upon the sudden death of a parent, and I have no doubt they would do this. The trust fund monies could then be used for their university education. After all IGGS has received very favourable press over the past few weeks regarding Allisons education there.

IGGS already has a lot of scholarships in place that are allocated on academic merit +/- financial hardship. The publicising of the trust fund came about because members of the public have been offering financial assistance, and this was one way to focus those efforts in a way that would have meant a lot to Allison. It's discussed at the end of this video http://video.couriermail.com.au/2230644016/The-life-of-Allison-BadenClay
 
sister from townsville did not arrive till after abc went missing..
i really think his family are not involved

I was the one who was told that the sister-in-law took the kids to school the day Allison was reported missing. I have no idea if it is truth or just rumour/gossip. Is anyone 100% sure that she wasn't here already? I have no idea myself. It's hard to know what to believe on here and in the community at the moment. Makes my head spin!

Meant to say too - I don't know what time the kids were taken to school. If his sister in law wasn't already here, maybe she flew in and the kids went to school in the afternoon, to keep them out of the way of all the police, etc. Taking the kids to school at all seems so inappropriate, but that's just me.
 
There is no official confirmation that she went to the hairdresser. Also, one poster has said in the past that this R/E office you are indicating is not the one the alleged "friend" works for now.

There is not official confirmation about a lot of things, but there are some things that we have been given information about that could be total rubbish, and other info that is more likely to be true.

Someone posted recently that they are a close friend of a haridresser working in a kenmore salon who has told her that Allison did have her hair done there, and that all the staff there have been questioned. I doubt that is untrue, altho I could be wrong.
 
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