Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #5

[UnfoldingTruth]

I wasn't aware until today that any speculation (ie saying someone is guilty) before it's proven can go for them in court

Apparently they can use it as that they were judged to be guilty before they were even charged/ gone through court. Did anyone else know this??

Thank you. I am aware that public speculation, and say forums such as this can be used by defence in saying there can not be a fair trial- needing to be tried elsewehere. And Yes I have been very careful to not outright accuse anyone here or put out to many wild rumours thoughts or finger pointing. I do think we need to keep it in mind.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I can say that you are definitely NOT wrong. The only time one can enter without permission or warrant and seize......................is if the crime is happening at that given moment. ie man has a gun. ie hear screams in bathroom. etc

Thanks. I did not think I got it wrong. but was unsure of original posters qualification to make statement.

 

[angel1]

I was shocked when i was told that but in a way didn't want to believe it but i guess the person is right that told me ( i'm so confused)

 

[willough]

I wonder if the police showed up at the Baden Clay's and Gerard was talking out the front with them. When they asked to go in to the home, he declined....Maybe from the get go, he was on his guard (law wise). The police would view that in itself as hiding something.................All it takes is a phone call to the Senior Sergeant or up (chain of command wise) and they would have had that permission within minutes....as in a few. So that angle would never have been in GBCs best interests.

 

[Neuromancer]

If it had been DV wouldn't the police have seen marks on Allison? And i'm not saying your wrong i'm kind of talking from experience because i put up with DV for almost 6 years

Not quite sure how to put this delicately, but after 11 days in and out of water in a subtropical climate, there wouldn't be a lot of evidence you could get from superficial tissues.

 

[ozazure]

I wasn't aware until today that any speculation (ie saying someone is guilty) before it's proven can go for them in court

Apparently they can use it as that they were judged to be guilty before they were even charged/ gone through court. Did anyone else know this??

Have a read of this http://www.ag.gov.au/Documents/HRB - Guidance Sheets - PDF - Presumption of innocence.PDF

I would say that it is only the responsibility of authorities and the media to be concerned with presumption of innocence.

It might affect how a jury is selected, moving location for example.

It will likely be argued that he can't get a fair trial because of media coverage, isn't that standard procedure? It is not like other high profile cases have gone prosecuted.

I think the media has been pretty careful.

 

[willough]

Thanks. I did not think I got it wrong. but was unsure of original posters qualification to make statement.

Person also needs to be read their rights....or else, all they see and do cannot be used in a court of law......sosososos (as shown in tv shows)

 

[Mystery green]

Allyg ...

Sorry I haven't yet worked out how to quote

But I would like to clarify ...I don't know GBC ....I knew GBC and his family almost 3 decades ago

 

[angel1]

Have a read of this http://www.ag.gov.au/Documents/HRB - Guidance Sheets - PDF - Presumption of innocence.PDF

I would say that it is only the responsibility of authorities and the media to be concerned with presumption of innocence.

It might affect how a jury is selected, moving location for example.

It will likely be argued that he can't get a fair trial because of media coverage, isn't that standard procedure? It is not like other high profile cases have gone prosecuted.

I think the media has been pretty careful.

Thankyou for the link It's just after i was told this i went to the QPS page too and they have put warnings on some of the posts there in comments. I will have a look at this link now

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Have a read of this http://www.ag.gov.au/Documents/HRB - Guidance Sheets - PDF - Presumption of innocence.PDF

I would say that it is only the responsibility of authorities and the media to be concerned with presumption of innocence.

It might affect how a jury is selected, moving location for example.

It will likely be argued that he can't get a fair trial because of media coverage, isn't that standard procedure? It is not like other high profile cases have gone prosecuted.

I think the media has been pretty careful.

I agree, while I think there has been a little innuendo in some reporting, really they have been pretty good. Maybe under instructions from police, many of the facts of this case have really been kept quiet it seems. And obviously with good reason.

Yes on the fair trial thing. I have erred on the side of caution I guess, cause would not want anything to jeopardise a case.

I really think I need to take a break!.. I keep getting drawn back and have to log in to thank a post or comment..:sigh:

 

[BrizzychickinUSA]

This is second hand hearsay so may not be reliable but a recently retired brisbane homicide detective mentioned to one of my family members that Allison and gbc were seperated. No other details were mentioned but I thought it was interesting. Pure speculation but perhaps this may have been very early on and they had not announced it to family yet. He may have been planning on moving on with the mistress and Allison threatened to make sure he walks away with nothing which likely would infuriate gbc and his mistress. Pure speculation of course. This could also be the reason gbc and none of his family was not listed in the funeral notice as loving husband etc if they were in fact aware of a separation.

Of course they were seperated...and of course they were not at the 'divorce' stage...they were still at the 'not letting everyone know' stage....IMHO

If ABC had of spoken to centrelink and given them the info of their separation, they possibly would have provided her with extra money for being a single parent...(It wouldnt suprise me if ABC had called and this info was held in confidence) I would also suggest GBC, would have been hassled for child support....and this was part of the arguments....imo

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Thankyou for the link It's just after i was told this i went to the QPS page too and they have put warnings on some of the posts there in comments. I will have a look at this link now

Because QPS cannot be seen to endorse anyones comments on guilt or such before an arrest. That could indeed have an affect on conviction. (and possible slander if indeed person wasn't guilty)

 

[possumheart]

Allyg ...

Sorry I haven't yet worked out how to quote

But I would like to clarify ...I don't know GBC ....I knew GBC and his family almost 3 decades ago

The two younger Baden-Clays started at Toowoomba Prep (THE most expensive private school in Toowoomba) in 1983, so that is when the family would have first come to Toowoomba. It shows acute consciousness about social standing to send children there.

 

[PPE]

Hi long time lurker here since thread 1. Now this is just purly speculation but I have been told by a close friend of the family that GBC was supposed to be arrested on the friday when ABC body was found however that did not happen....

Now what I was thinking is what if he has confessed to the accidental manslaughter of ABC but he has pleaded for the arrest to be held off because of the girls and the funeral and once that is over and done with then police may take him into custody???? would this at all be possible? this would explain the barrister being hired so early and the not much info being released from the police?

Once again purly my speculation

 

[westie]

the fact remains that SOMETHING must have been 'unusual' for the police to exercise a warrant so quickly, and i stand corrected, police merely have the right to remain in place at a dwelling until the warrant is issued and the occupier given the 'occupiers notice'. UNLESS they suspect that a crime is being committed inside the premises or they want to arrest someone they are certain is there, ie; they saw the person enter the dwelling.

so what did the cops see or hear? a previous poster has indicated that one of the kids said something unusual, but apparently they weren't there...so what was it????

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Hi long time lurker here since thread 1. Now this is just purly speculation but I have been told by a close friend of the family that GBC was supposed to be arrested on the friday when ABC body was found however that did not happen....

Now what I was thinking is what if he has confessed to the accidental manslaughter of ABC but he has pleaded for the arrest to be held off because of the girls and the funeral and once that is over and done with then police may take him into custody???? would this at all be possible? this would explain the barrister being hired so early and the not much info being released from the police?

Once again purly my speculation

I doubt that if they were going to arrest him then, that they would hold off till after because he asked. But then again who knows what happens behind closed doors when the lawyers get on board. However it has been reported Person in question has not made a formal statement. And if they did I am not sure police would be so hell bent on finding further evidence/witnesses as they have, if they already had a confession.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

the fact remains that SOMETHING must have been 'unusual' for the police to exercise a warrant so quickly, and i stand corrected, police merely have the right to remain in place at a dwelling until the warrant is issued and the occupier given the 'occupiers notice'. UNLESS they suspect that a crime is being committed inside the premises or they want to arrest someone they are certain is there, ie; they saw the person enter the dwelling.

so what did the cops see or hear? a previous poster has indicated that one of the kids said something unusual, but apparently they weren't there...so what was it????

I don't think anybody really knows. It has not been reported officially what it was. I do know the computers have items of interest. But this would not have been an immediate observation.

 

[maevelorg]

Thanks Possumheart : ) - I hadn't seen your prior post. thanks for tip. the minors in question though are now adults and the pics are 35 years old so I can't see why mods would remove them.

I think you will find this will be swiftly removed as it contains images of minors etc. Has been posted by me and removed before. Sorry!

 

[Confuddled]

Regarding the "SHE" written on the path, it looks to me to have been done a while ago with a pressure cleaner. Does anyone know how long the BC's had been renting that house?

SHE <modsnip>

It's the daughters initials.

 

[minni]

This theory seems very credible to me. Well done.
As it is a female ex-colleague that has been interviewed extensively and has sought legal council I would put my money on her as being somewhat involved, even if at the time she didn't know she was. Family have not been interviewed, or cars searched that we know of so while disturbingly odd, I believe they are just trying to outwardly support GBC 100%, whether they fully believe he is innocent or not.

I tried to post 3 times yesterday a theory I had...for some reason everytime I hit post reply, it logged me out, but i cant get this theory out of my head so I will try again.

It is based on GBC working alone, and that it was not intended to happen and relates to the roundabout vicinity. Its a bit hard to bring up so I apologise but its stuck in my mind.
I noticed on the CCTV that you can see some of the village carpark. Does anyone know if there are industrial bins (SORRY) in the carpark? Someone reported something that they saw in the vicinity of the roundabout, the following morning...and it got me thinking what would be so unusual you would actually call police over it? I think someone putting something in the bins would be odd, but what would be even odder would be someone removing something from the bins....again, I'm sorry to bring it up, but does anyone think this a possibility? I also wonder if one of the cars was used at the early side of the 11.30 - 4am timeframe, and the other family car was used at the latter...I had a reason for why both cars would be placed at the scene of interest (ie roundabout area) but have lost my thoughtsw on why that was relevant to me, I think it had something to do with contamination in one of the cars... I know it seems like a stupid thing to do, but in the immediate aftermath of an accidental killing, you would surely be in panic mode and not thinking clearly....any thoughts???