Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #6

[laserdisc10]

We have never taken the towball off and wouldnt know how to lol. I dont really notice it there and have never hurt myself on it. Mind you I only just figured out there was a latch on the rear door that keeps it open. Now that door is dangerous when it isnt latched, it has hit me and knocked me into the car that many times lol.

At the same time, man (Brisbane) a day or two ago obviously removed his towball

Killed his wife with it

 

[Confuddled]

Popping back with more on the trailer


If I personally were to dispose of a body I wouldn't use a trailer as it would be something else that could possibly bring attention to myself.
Time of night/ faulty indicator or brake light/ something flying out - all reasons why police could pull me over.
Why bring un needed attention to myself?

 

[BrookieLocal]

Cheers for your reply brookie. If it was an accidental hit n run.. Do police normally issue public warnings? I don't hear of many so maybe not.. I.e. If someone hits someone, panics, and tries to hide the body.. I don't think the police would want to alarm the community as it is like a reactionary crime.

In regard to the lawyer... Do we know how far away his offices are? Is it like 5 mins or 50mims? But yea.. I don't really know if I believe the lawyer was there before the police... If police responded straight away then it wouldn't give the lWyer much time to get there. Plus there would be a record of GBc calling a lawyer before the cops which would be uber stupid to do.. And the lawyer wouldn't want to be in **** for not advising his client to call the police straight away? Hrmmmm


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I think it is unlikely that someone who was involved in a hit and run would stop, drag the body into their car and then dump it somewhere. But if it was that I guess the police would not alert the public.

I believe the lawyer is on the Gold Coast (works there but not sure where he lives) so that is an hour away. If GB-C was up all night planning what to do he certainly could have called his lawyer at 6 in the morning.

The timing on that Thurs 19th/Fri 20th is definitely what is confusing all of us!:waitasec:

 

[minni]

having a little breakdown tonight....yelled and screamed at all my family for picking on me and my obsession with this case....crabby all night, and now feeling very teary...NAY. not feeling teary, actually really *&*%^%ing upset..i dont know why or whether it relates to the emotion of the day but I am not coping today....will be back soon though take care all you wonderful people

 

[Deezee]

Not sure if you've read back, but it's been said by someone who knows someone, that Allison spent some time at the hairdresser's on Thursday night, having her hair done for the conference she planned to attend the next day (Friday). Also, locals from the area have said she'd need to be up very early on Friday morning in order to get through heavy traffic and to her destination in time. So the odds are quite high that she wouldn't have gone for a walk on Thursday night after returning from having her hair done

Sorry I didn't mention this in my first post about the hairdressers.. I remember reading a fe posts and I think it sounds likely she did get her hair done... But even when I get my hair done nicely.. If I am having a huge argument with someone I would still head outside for air and walk it off... That said I wouldn't go for a run or do anything strenuous.. Buy a walk doesn't do too much damage... And a lot less than sleeping on it.. So if it was a bit more of a fancy haircut then I doubt she would of slept on it either.. So it,ight of just been a basic blowdry or cut.

I really just want to try to explore this angle more as I have been here since first thread days and I have never seen this fully tested.

But then i do acknowledge that everyone is making large assumptions trying to connect very far away dots.. Myself included... But devils advocate brings out some good debate


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[laserdisc10]

Popping back with more on the trailer


If I personally were to dispose of a body I wouldn't use a trailer as it would be something else that could possibly bring attention to myself.
Time of night/ faulty indicator or brake light/ something flying out - all reasons why police could pull me over.
Why bring un needed attention to myself?

On the other hand though and as Brizzy's suggested, it's a way of keeping DNA and other evidence out of the vehicle

Also, it could be a 'distancing' mechanism. Physical distance between the killer and victim. A way to objectify the victim's remains - not a person. A body. A thing to be disposed of. Not part of 'me'. 'I' am unsullied, up front here in my clean, neat car. 'That' is at the back. On it's own. Not connected to 'me'

If a body were in a trailer and covered with a tarp and if the killer knew the route and time and distances involved, the odds were probably in his/her favour at that time of night

Whether or not a trailer was used I have no idea, but it's a plausible theory

 

[Deezee]

Popping back with more on the trailer


If I personally were to dispose of a body I wouldn't use a trailer as it would be something else that could possibly bring attention to myself.
Time of night/ faulty indicator or brake light/ something flying out - all reasons why police could pull me over.
Why bring un needed attention to myself?

My experiences with trailers is they take ages to hook up, are loud and clangy and I agree would draw all sorts of attention to you.but then I only digit once and I was very noobish?

If we go down the track of the white prado being seen through the roundabout.. Surley one would take a silver car as opposed to a white car with an obvious c21 sticker on it which any witness would easily identify.?


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[Lurker on Websleuths]

No disrespect taken. But what if it was done nearby on a quieter street and the culprit had to drive through the roundabout? Being a main point of traffic one likley go through that roundAbout to get from said walking route/accident to that of the creek?


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Ok look very important to keep an open mind, point taken, but I still think its way off the mark. QPS go into a whole different mode of operation for suspectd hit and runs than they do for MURDER INVESTIGATIONS. If it were a hit and run , they probably would have declared that the deceased showed signs of road trauma when the body was reovered and brought this out publicly. This has not been done . Go more down the road of vehicle captured on video proves last known whereabouts of deceased or destroys someone else's story as to where they were at a certain time. Just my opinion. Probably would stick if they for instance had a witness that was able to stand up in court and say something like " on that night I travelled that location and noticed a particular vehicle in that location, or i travelled behind said vehicle" and they would want to tie in that persons legitimate movements with their vehicle being seen on video footage at that time aswell .

 

[clem1970]

I have asked myself many times over the last couple of weeks why i am so obsessed with this case. Is it because of all the unknowns or uncertainty or is it because of all the media surrounding it? Another senseless murder occured on the northside of Brisbane a few days ago - husband killed wife and yet i dont even remember that poor ladies name even being mentioned on the news, let alone seeing more than one news item on it.

Every day i, like you all, spend hours reading every post on here - in search of answers. Yet, i barely paused for a second when the more recent murder was reported on the news.

Sad on all counts.

 

[Confuddled]

On the other hand though and as Brizzy's suggested, it's a way of keeping DNA and other evidence out of the vehicle

Also, it could be a 'distancing' mechanism. Physical distance between the killer and victim. A way to objectify the victim's remains - not a person. A body. A thing to be disposed of. Not part of 'me'. 'I' am unsullied, up front here in my clean, neat car. 'That' is at the back. On it's own. Not connected to 'me'

If a body were in a trailer and covered with a tarp and if the killer knew the route and time and distances involved, the odds were probably in his/her favour at that time of night

Whether or not a trailer was used I have no idea, but it's a plausible theory

Good call, I'll pay that.

Easier to hose out a trailer or throw contaminants around than meticulously combing the car for fibres, fluids etc

I enjoy nutting things out with you!

 

[Blue Bottle]

Can i add that the eldest girl has her hand nearest the cameras raised to her face, and Allison's mother also has her arms crossed over her body in the direction of the camera.

IMO their body language suggests that they are feeling exposed by the media presence.

Grief and expressing grief and sorrow is private to many people and having media attention and cameras pointing at you and knowing people (strangers) are watching every move you make would be quite intrusive and overwhelming to most people I would imagine.

 

[CJ60]

I think it is unlikely that someone who was involved in a hit and run would stop, drag the body into their car and then dump it somewhere. But if it was that I guess the police would not alert the public.

I believe the lawyer is on the Gold Coast (works there but not sure where he lives) so that is an hour away. If GB-C was up all night planning what to do he certainly could have called his lawyer at 6 in the morning.

The timing on that Thurs 19th/Fri 20th is definitely what is confusing all of us!:waitasec:

Agree - highly unlikely to be a hit and run or random abduction. I think we would have been looking at a Daniel Morecombe scenario. I truly believe the police have known from very early on who the killer is. I do not believe Mark Ainsworth would have said they had a level of confidence of an arrest if it was an abduction or hit and run.

 

[CaseClosed]

Don't think it's been conclusively defined just what the police were up to late last night

I'm happy to accept both, i.e., that they were conducting re-enactments AND conducting road-blocks/interviews

Apart from what was printed about it in the CM, TV news also described it as road blocks (with footage of road blocks interviewing drivers), not re-enactment.

 

[Nads]

I have asked myself many times over the last couple of weeks why i am so obsessed with this case. Is it because of all the unknowns or uncertainty or is it because of all the media surrounding it? Another senseless murder occured on the northside of Brisbane a few days ago - husband killed wife and yet i dont even remember that poor ladies name even being mentioned on the news, let alone seeing more than one news item on it.

Every day i, like you all, spend hours reading every post on here - in search of answers. Yet, i barely paused for a second when the more recent murder was reported on the news.

Sad on all counts.

I think it's because firstly Allison was missing for so long and there's been such a whodunnit type of atmosphere, with so many veilled references and hints in the media. They definitely know something they are not yet allowed to say and it's driving us all mad!

The other murder was all over and we knew who did it by the time we found out. I'm not sure if they even said the names either. I too have been wondering why I didn't care so much about that case!!

 

[laserdisc10]

I think it is unlikely that someone who was involved in a hit and run would stop, drag the body into their car and then dump it somewhere. But if it was that I guess the police would not alert the public.

I believe the lawyer is on the Gold Coast (works there but not sure where he lives) so that is an hour away. If GB-C was up all night planning what to do he certainly could have called his lawyer at 6 in the morning.

The timing on that Thurs 19th/Fri 20th is definitely what is confusing all of us!:waitasec:

Didn't want your post to vanish unseen

From media reports, the lawyer is based on the GC

Would have to be something really special I imagine, to get a lawyer to get himself personally to a house, first thing in the morning

So maybe 'mens club' network at work?

To summon a lawyer at that time of day, you'd have to be pretty damn fearful and convinced it was a matter of life and death. And would need to convince lawyer of same, no?

I mean, who has a lawyer's home number handy for such emergencies anyway? He's not a standard, suburban solicitor from what I understand, but instead is a gun criminal lawyer -- the kind which specialises in serious crimes such as murder, etc

Who took the kids home? We know nothing of that angle. Were they (person bringing the kids home) told that overnight, GBC was in such a state he'd succeeded in getting a lawyer onto the premises basically at sunrise?

When and by whom was the decision made to not only summon a top criminal lawyer and persuade him to attend physically, prior to reporting ABC as 'missing'?

What caused GBC and whomever else was involved at that point that the physical attendance of a top criminal lawyer was necessary?

Why did police respond as swiftly as they did, in person?

If it were me, I would have needed to be involved in something major and would have spent at least an hour or more in discussion with others (by phone or in person) before I would have reacted to the point I called a lawyer at that time of day/night AND for that lawyer to agree the matter was extreme to the point he would drive from wherever to advise me in person and protect me when I got around to calling the police to report my spouse as 'missing'

 

[laserdisc10]

Apart from what was printed about it in the CM, TV news also described it as road blocks (with footage of road blocks interviewing drivers), not re-enactment.

But there was a Twitter alert from a radio personality about the time in question

Anyway, it will all emerge in good time I guess

 

[Lurker on Websleuths]

Has anybody on this website seen a four corners program where they were looking at peoples movements using information gatherted from mobile phone companies, might have been a murder investigation, but anyway, they showed how phone companies can track people by their movement within their cells, and determine location accuracy fairly closely ?? I would think that they would be looking at various suspects and aquaintances to determine movements on that night using information from telcos, then tie that in with video footage and most importantly witness statements if they can find the witness.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

The middle B-C child was very much a mummy's girl, very clingy to Allison, today must have been very hard for all 3 girls.

I was told today that cause of death is definitely strangulation and unless toxicology reports provide some physical evidence it may be a while before an arrest is made as most evidence is circumstantial.

We've been discussing what information could have triggered police to act so quickly - I was told that GB-C's lawyer was at the house when police arrived! GB-C told police that the kids were at home that night and one of the children said they weren't.

Yes, also believe legal advice was sought before police contact...(not saying anything, just what I have heard..)

 

[CaseClosed]

Not doubting or arguing your point, just adding 2 cents wondering where someone was going with an empty trailer at that time of night iykwim.
Yeah could be totally innocent but the shops would all be shut by then even on Thursday night.

Looking at the image, I believe its a Ute (with cabin on the back) and not at 4x4 like a Prado. Many trades people carry all their tools in trailers and leave the trailers permanently hook up, or someone could have borrowed one from a friend after a few drinks that night, or could have used it to buy a fridge (it was late night shopping), or they could be moving house, etc. There could be many reasons. IMO it has nothing to do with what police did last night.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I believe GBC is genuinely distressed and upset and not putting on an act. I also agree with whoever posted that part of him clinging to the girls is him needing to cling to them rather than him providing for thier needs to cling ti him. (but only partly because I do believe he is a loving father).

Regarding his show of grief I believe it is a mixture of emotions representing his place in all this and how he would be feeling about that - as follows:

(Note this is based on my opinion that he is responsible for Allisons death)

1. Concern for the girls, as he does love them and he now sees the worst of the effects on them
2. Being surrounded by so much love and emotion for Allison from such a large crowd has reminded him of Allisons wonderful qualities which he once must have appreciated - so a harking back to what once was.
3. Being in a situation which is a symbolic representation, in the saddest possible way, of how monumentally he has stuffed up, therefore crying for himself as such an abject failure.

4. Feeling very alone because for the most part Allisons family have organised the funeral, and people are having to 'work around' him at the funeral, most of them probably thinking he is guilty. They are all supporting each other and he is the odd one out. Where are all his 'best mates' - he probably never had any.

5. Feeling very sorry for himself, because he is quite self-absorbed and narcissistic, and genuinely worried about what is going to happen to him.

Put it all together and it makes for a person who is genuinely distressed and upset. People are complicated and no one is all bad, thus it is not as simple as saying - "look at him, he clearly loves his daughters", or, "after looking at him I'm now wondering if he even did it", or, on the other hand, "look at him, he is putting on an act, the fake, self-absorbed murderer!"

None of this has changed my opinion of the case - his behaviour today was totally apppropriate to the reality of the situation in all its facets - and notice that in all my points, if you agree (which some may not) Allison herself does not feature much in the cause of the grief and distressed reaction.

Really appreciate you post. And assesment of how you see things and acknowledgement of where you are coming from in relation to your post. Its good to have considered opinion regardless of which way it leans.