GUILTY Australia - Andrew, 45, Rose, 44, & Chantelle Rowe, 16, slain, Kapunda, 8 Nov 2010 #5

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AR was in the hallway outside the bedroom door and visible through the lounge window....a floor plan would be interesting still.
 
Dont know. Its kinda hard to work out. Everyone comes on saying ' i heard from a reputable, verifiable source' but all the stories are different.

Some say the parents were definitely not home initially - ( wonder if people are confusing that with the fact they were out on saturday night????). Some say the parents were definitely home.

Some say that CR or the accused hid in a cupboard. Some say no one hid in a cupboard.

After the mother yelled 'help, help, help' there was a bang (wonder what that was) and then 5 or 6 seconds after there was a man yelling. I reckon the yelling was the dad but i also wonder, if it could have been the accused coming charging at the dad? We dont really know if the dad was half asleep or not. I tend to think the dad heard his wife calling help, then got up and it was him yelling as he confronted the accused. I think that because, if the dad had not already got up when he heard the 'help, help' why wouldnt the accused just run out after the mother was dead. The only reason i can think of is that he either wanted to kill the dad and so went in after him and woke him up, or the more realistic scenario is that the dad heard what was going on and he got up and confronted the accused just as he finished the mother. I dont think the accused planned to kill the parents, i just reckon he had to because he was caught trying to leave. Still leaves the question of how he was able to kill CR with little noise to alert the parents sooner and come to her room and catch him. i reckon he must of been able to gag her and do it real quick with the door shut.
 
Mrs G Norris said:
AR was in the hallway outside the bedroom door and visible through the lounge window....a floor plan would be interesting still.
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Well if what you said is right as to where the dad was found, i would be willing to go with saying he heard his wife yelling help and he got up and came and confronted the killer. That makes the most sense i reckon.
 
Cyclone82 said:
Dont know. Its kinda hard to work out. Everyone comes on saying ' i heard from a reputable, verifiable source' but all the stories are different.

Some say the parents were definitely not home initially - ( wonder if people are confusing that with the fact they were out on saturday night????). Some say the parents were definitely home.

Some say that CR or the accused hid in a cupboard. Some say no one hid in a cupboard.

After the mother yelled 'help, help, help' there was a bang (wonder what that was) and then 5 or 6 seconds after there was a man yelling. I reckon the yelling was the dad but i also wonder, if it could have been the accused coming charging at the dad? We dont really know if the dad was half asleep or not. I tend to think the dad heard his wife calling help, then got up and it was him yelling as he confronted the accused. I think that because, if the dad had not already got up when he heard the 'help, help' why wouldnt the accused just run out after the mother was dead. The only reason i can think of is that he either wanted to kill the dad and so went in after him and woke him up, or the more realistic scenario is that the dad heard what was going on and he got up and confronted the accused just as he finished the mother. I dont think the accused planned to kill the parents, i just reckon he had to because he was caught trying to leave. Still leaves the question of how he was able to kill CR with little noise to alert the parents sooner and come to her room and catch him. i reckon he must of been able to gag her and do it real quick with the door shut.
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I agree totally with your last paragragh as to the likely scenario. The bang heard by the next door neighbour after RR called for help may well have been her knocking over some furniture as she fell to the floor, as it was after that I believe, that the male voice was heard which was likely AR. Yes, I don't know how CR was subdued and unable to alert parents earlier.
 
Cyclone82 said:
Well if what you said is right as to where the dad was found, i would be willing to go with saying he heard his wife yelling help and he got up and came and confronted the killer. That makes the most sense i reckon.
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I agree with this scenario. Remember how it was stated in the media that the police baulked on entering the premises? This would indicate that a body was visible on opening the front door and entering the house - i.e. AR in the hall.
 
i have been thinking about the actual target of the murders - if the target was cronly then why didn't the accused do the murders on saturday night whilst she was alone and a much easier target but instead he attacks them on sunday night monday morning taking on the 3 of them - so the attack would be more difficult in nature - so one then, has to assume that in fact the target was all 3 persons - the accused i presume would have known where the parents were - what do you think, any ideas ?
 
I dont think CR was alone on Saturday night because she had a party/friends around for drinks, so they were probably up till early sunday morning and some friends may have slept over too or what ever. Unlikely to be a time when he could do it then. Also was the tigger for this, comments she made about the accused on sunday night on FB? Or was it simply the 'I love you' messages exchanged between CR and her BF that was the final straw? That was only around 10.30-11pm. The accused may not have planned to do it Sunday night until sometime on sunday?
 
Could the accused have thought the parents were staying in Adelaide for the whole weekend including the Sunday night, especially if he went past the house during the day and saw no car as they were out at the barbecue?
 
Weren't the lovey dovey messages between CR and her boyfriend the trigger or were there other comments?
 
patroler said:
i have been thinking about the actual target of the murders - if the target was cronly then why didn't the accused do the murders on saturday night whilst she was alone and a much easier target but instead he attacks them on sunday night monday morning taking on the 3 of them - so the attack would be more difficult in nature - so one then, has to assume that in fact the target was all 3 persons - the accused i presume would have known where the parents were - what do you think, any ideas ?
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I read somewhere that accused was annoyed/upset with something that CR had allegedly said, 'bagging' the accused. Accused may only have become aware of whatever it was later on the Sunday, and decided to go and see CR about it. I don't think any murders were planned at all, especially as there is a possibility that the accused was 'dropped off' by the Toyoto (we don't know if that is so), as then there would be a potential witness to accused's presence at the house. It is my belief at this stage that circumstances overcame the accused. However, I do have a problem with the murder weapon.

But another possibility - young fellows are notorious for carrying weapons including a knife for self protection. (They are banned in Victoria and new laws here allow the police to stop and search youths randomly). Accused may have been in the habit of carrying a knife at night for this reason, as it is likely that he walked to his home after the murders. But I know that is a long shot.
 
Cyclone82 said:
I dont think CR was alone on Saturday night because she had a party/friends around for drinks, so they were probably up till early sunday morning or what ever.
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well i've heard that it wasn't a real party there was only 7 there, <modsnip> and some other girl friends, i have looked at all the fb pages and news reports and there is no mention of accused being there, just conjecture that he was there - the party idea came from an interview with a neighbour who stated that they had parties sometimes and made a little bit of noise sometimes - so the idea of a party maybe people jumping the gun, but at the same time maybe she was not alone on saturday night - no one has said or reported either way
 
Weren't the lovey dovey messages between CR and her boyfriend the trigger or were there other comments?
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Could have been but ive heard some say on here that she had been bagging him out a bit for sometime before this weekend of the murders too.


Yeah there was definitely other friends there saturday night, whether it was a full on party or just a quiet get together, one things sure she wasn't alone so it wouldn't have been a good time to do it then. Maybe the accused thought he could just murder CR even with the parents there?. By what we are hearing, it sounds like he almost pulled it off if he was only just seen by the mother as he was trying to leave, then had to kill her and the father so there was no witnesses to what he had done. Maybe he put CR into bed so it was going to be a horrible surprise for her parents to find in the morning???
 
KG1 said:
I read somewhere that accused was annoyed/upset with something that CR had allegedly said, 'bagging' the accused. Accused may only have become aware of whatever it was later on the Sunday, and decided to go and see CR about it. I don't think any murders were planned at all, especially as there is a possibility that the accused was 'dropped off' by the Toyoto (we don't know if that is so), as then there would be a potential witness to accused's presence at the house. It is my belief at this stage that circumstances overcame the accused. However, I do have a problem with the murder weapon.

But another possibility - young fellows are notorious for carrying weapons including a knife for self protection. (They are banned in Victoria and new laws here allow the police to stop and search youths randomly). Accused may have been in the habit of carrying a knife at night for this reason, as it is likely that he walked to his home after the murders. But I know that is a long shot.
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it must of been a ***** to carry that one around (size) to do that much damage
 
Does anyone remember the conversation between one of the accused's friends and the accused where the friend wanted to meet up with the accused late on sunday night but the accused said he couldn't because he was going to be busy or doing something else? I wish i knew/remembered where i read that.

Everything to me is indicating he took his own weapon. Surely he didn't have time to fossic through the kitchen to find a knife before he went into see CR. You would think the knife for this would have to be pretty big and sharpe, therefore kept in a bench top knife block, so if it was taken from the house i'm sure the police cousl work out one was missing from the kitchen and give an accurate description. They havent done that, so thats why i reckon he must of taken his own in that bag he took to the house. its not too hard to buy pretty leathal knives from hunting shops and knive shops down Adelaide or even purchased online.
 
Yes, I remember that, the accused friend was going to meet up with him and texted to ask if they still were and got a one word answer 'NO'.
 
Cyclone82 said:
Could have been but ive heard some say on here that she had been bagging him out a bit for sometime before this weekend of the murders too.


Yeah there was definitely other friends there saturday night, whether it was a full on party or just a quiet get together, one things sure she wasn't alone so it wouldn't have been a good time to do it then. Maybe the accused thought he could just murder CR even with the parents there?. By what we are hearing, it sounds like he almost pulled it off if he was only just seen by the mother as he was trying to leave, then had to kill her and the father so there was no witnesses to what he had done. Maybe he put CR into bed so it was going to be a horrible surprise for her parents to find in the morning???
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'Mere words are no provocation' is what is taught in Criminal Law in law school, so no excuse for accused to kill for 'bagging'.

Wasn't CR already in bed as she was sick with croup, and had texted in sick for work for the Monday?
 
Cyclone82 said:
Does anyone remember the conversation between one of the accused's friends and the accused where the friend wanted to meet up with the accused late on sunday night but the accused said he couldn't because he was going to be busy or doing something else? I wish i knew/remembered where i read that.
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that quote was on FB
 
I wonder what site they found that on. im going to try having another look.
 
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