Australia- Bus carrying wedding guests in Australian wine region rolls over, killing 10 and injuring 25, 12 June '23, *Bus driver arrested*

[drsleuth]

The fog was VERY thick, as often it is.

I've driven these roads at night many many times in heavy fog & you can barley see 1-2 mtrs in front of you. It's often very patchy.

But you drive to the conditions.

He had nearly exited the roundabout.........if only...........

 

[SouthAussie]

The majority of road accidents occur on familiar roads. It is well documented. People become complacent because the road is familiar and they have driven it many times.

Combine that with passengers who were standing and/or not wearing their seat belts. We all know what after-party buses are like ... the party sort of continues with people standing in the aisle, leaning over seats, chatting to each other.

According to the article with the timeline, 9 people were found deceased within the first 25 mins ... with the paramedics working in the fog trying to find people.

 

[iamshadow21]

The fog was VERY thick, as often it is.

I've driven these roads at night many many times in heavy fog & you can barley see 1-2 mtrs in front of you. It's often very patchy.

But you drive to the conditions.

He had nearly exited the roundabout.........if only...........

Yeah, especially where water sits... where there is a creek or a swampy bit of ground, when the temperature drops to a certain point, it is just not worth the risk of going at speed. I've been elsewhere for some time now, but when I lived in the Hunter Valley, my regular 'run to the shops' was to Green Hills, from Kurri. And there are a few points on that road where it fogs up at times and the only safe approach is to go slow. Driving out to Cessnock, too. A bit of water, a field, a bit of bush, and in certain places, the visibility can get very, very poor very quickly.

MOO

 

[technicallymissing]

According to the article with the timeline, 9 people were found deceased within the first 25 mins ... with the paramedics working in the fog trying to find people.

(snipped) Hopefully this means most of the victims went fairly quickly without extended suffering.

 

[sleepinoz]

The fog was VERY thick, as often it is.

I've driven these roads at night many many times in heavy fog & you can barley see 1-2 mtrs in front of you. It's often very patchy.

But you drive to the conditions.

He had nearly exited the roundabout.........if only...........

I was there the weekend before and I can attest to the fog being thick, with the daytime temps being somewhat reasonable, sunny etc, and then the cold nights - makes for great fog.

With the fog and his attempts of showing off, it was an accident waiting to happen. IMO

 

[drsleuth]

Mapping out from the sevo at Greta ( I assume it's the BP truckstop ) to the round about is only 3.5kms ( 3 mins )

bp Truckstop to Greta

www.google.com

Going by this article, he must have got to that roundabout in record time for the first call to be made @ 11:35. There was an off duty paramedic who arrived first I think & must have been very soon after the crash

‘Exceptionally confronting’: Top paramedic recounts heroic efforts to save crash victims

NSW Ambulance commander Luke Wiseman said the Hunter Valley bus crash was unlike anything he had seen, as patients were triaged from the most critical to the walking wounded.

www.smh.com.au

The first ambulance arrived within seven minutes, he said, and an off-duty paramedic who came across the incident was rendering assistance.

How the Hunter Valley wedding bus crash emergency response unfolded

11.30pm: The bus is seen on CCTV passing a service station in Greta.
11.35pm: One of the first calls is made from ambulance dispatchers in the Newcastle area to the call that a bus has rolled over. It is a Priority one. Although crews are directed to a major trauma emergency, the scale of the situation is not yet clear. At least five ambulances have been dispatched. The dispatcher is adding more crews as every triple zero call comes in.

 

[drsleuth]

(snipped) Hopefully this means most of the victims went fairly quickly without extended suffering.

Yes I think so , injuries incompatible with life

 

[iamshadow21]

FYI for anyone looking at maps, to get out in front of any confusion, Greta and Heddon Greta are different places.

Hunter Valley and Newcastle regions have some confusingly similar place names that can baffle newcomers. For example, Wallsend and West Wallsend are nowhere near each other. Tl;dr, it's often about marketing coal.

This tragedy took place near Greta, not Heddon Greta.

MOO

 

[drsleuth]

This timeline makes more sense

• 11.35pm​

  The call comes through from NSW Ambulance reporting a bus rollover. Crews are directed to Wine Country Road, Greta. Highway patrol officers were the first on the scene.

• 11.40pm​

  The first ambulance arrives at the scene, and three helicopters are en route.

Hunter Valley bus crash updates: Driver Brett Button told passengers to ‘fasten your seatbelts’ moments before crash, court hears; NSW Police continue to identify victims

The wedding bus driver who crashed in the Hunter Valley, killing 10 passengers and injuring dozens more, faced court this morning after being charged with a string of serious offences.

www.smh.com.au

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Maybe the driver is devastated. His life has definitely changed immensely now. But will he be honest about the facts? IMO.

 

[Gardenista]

Maybe the driver is devastated. His life has definitely changed immensely now. But will he be honest about the facts? IMO.

He was flipping the bird at people as he walked out of jail. I don't think he's devastated at all.

 

[iamshadow21]

He was flipping the bird at people as he walked out of jail. I don't think he's devastated at all.

The optics of that are very bad, but to balance that, I know that some people who take photos for a living will say truly horrific things to their subjects to provoke just that kind of reaction to get a shocking photo they can sell. A basic photo is money, a photo of someone flipping the bird is much more money.

Or, the defendant could just be a jerk.

But I don't tend to judge people based on a paparazzi photo.

MOO

 

[Sjöberg]

He was flipping the bird at people as he walked out of jail. I don't think he's devastated at all.

While it is possible, I would not state that as a fact.
On that photo, he is not making eye contact and his facial expression does not match the gesture. Additionally, he seems to be using his fingers to zip up/adjust his coat. It is fully possible he just uses his fingers like that (like my partner holding a drinking glass with his little finger stuck out), or, more likely, that finger has an injury and does not move properly (like my dad has).

 

[Sarahlou]

He was flipping the bird at people as he walked out of jail. I don't think he's devastated at all.

Right! That's not the behaviour of someone who is devastated IMO. His alleged comments before the crash are disturbing too.

 

[dotr]

While it is possible, I would not state that as a fact.
On that photo, he is not making eye contact and his facial expression does not match the gesture. Additionally, he seems to be using his fingers to zip up/adjust his coat. It is fully possible he just uses his fingers like that (like my partner holding a drinking glass with his little finger stuck out), or, more likely, that finger has an injury and does not move properly (like my dad has).

Australia bus crash: Driver going too fast in Hunter Valley, police say

The tragedy has rocked a small rural town in the Hunter Valley where many victims lived.

www.bbc.com

''The man driving a bus in Australia that crashed, killing 10 and injuring at least 20, was allegedly going too fast in foggy conditions, police say.''

''Mr Button is also a Hunter Valley local, and is clearly hurting along with the victims' relatives, a magistrate said when he faced court on Tuesday morning.

"I see before me a man suffering," Magistrate Robyn Richardson said, granting him bail.
The Cessnock Local Court heard Mr Button had committed seven driving offences over the past 30 years, but did not have a criminal record.''

 

[iamshadow21]

Having just read everything available on it so far, I can HIGHLY recommend the live update feed on ABC News for this case. A lot we already know, yes, but A LOT that hasn't been repeated in other articles, including very important information.

Bus driver charged with dangerous driving after crash kills 10 wedding guests — as it happened

Of particular interest to me was the fact that, according to a local business owner who spoke to News Breakfast:

a) there are currently road works happening at that roundabout
b) they've been going on for months, this is not a new development
c) the roundabout is SINGLE LANE ONLY right now because of this, and the whole area is very clearly marked with bollards and signage telling motorists about the road work, including that IT IS SPEED LIMITED TO 40KM/H.

A bunch of other things of interest in there too, for those who want to take the time. There are videos of press interviews with politicians from Singleton mayor right up to the PM, with police and emergency folks, and so on and so forth. I didn't watch the videos because I'm about to go to bed, but there may be more things of note in those, too.

MOO

 

[al66pine]

Red Label Patients?

....11.40pm: The first ambulance arrives at the bus. Paramedics report multiple red- and yellow-label patients on scene. Three helicopters are on the way,...

How the Hunter Valley wedding bus crash emergency response unfolded

www.9news.com.au

snipped for focus @SouthAussie Thanks for your post w link & quotes.
New-to-me: Color coded labels or tags at mass casualty scenes.* Seems obvious, but I don't recall seeing before.

Sad that part of a happy event turned tragic.
Condolences to all victims and their families, friends & communities
______________________________
"EMS Mass Casualty Triage
"Most mass casualty incident triaging systems use tags or colored designations for categorizing injured persons....
"Simple triage and rapid treatment (START) ...triage system...
"BLACK: (Deceased/expectant) injuries incompatible with life or without spontaneous respiration; should not be moved forward to the collection point
"RED: (Immediate) severe injuries but high potential for survival with treatment; taken to collection point first
"YELLOW: (Delayed) serious injuries but not immediately life-threatening
"GREEN: (Walking wounded) minor injuries"
From a webpage of US N.I.H. National Library of Medicine.
^ EMS Mass Casualty Triage - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[iamshadow21]

Red Label Patients?

snipped for focus @SouthAussie Thanks for your post w link & quotes.
New-to-me: Color coded labels or tags at mass casualty scenes.* Seems obvious, but I don't recall seeing before.

Sad that part of a happy event turned tragic.
Condolences to all victims and their families, friends & communities
______________________________
"EMS Mass Casualty Triage
"Most mass casualty incident triaging systems use tags or colored designations for categorizing injured persons....
"Simple triage and rapid treatment (START) ...triage system...
"BLACK: (Deceased/expectant) injuries incompatible with life or without spontaneous respiration; should not be moved forward to the collection point
"RED: (Immediate) severe injuries but high potential for survival with treatment; taken to collection point first
"YELLOW: (Delayed) serious injuries but not immediately life-threatening
"GREEN: (Walking wounded) minor injuries"
From a webpage of US N.I.H. National Library of Medicine.
^ EMS Mass Casualty Triage - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

I knew they were old, but I didn't know just HOW old. Sounds like the first version of them might have been used by a French surgeon in Napoleon's army.

Triage tag - Wikipedia

For more contemporary depictions, you see them used in fiction in the tv show of MASH, I think. I know MASH didn't get everything right, but I think they tried, especially with the medical stuff.

Looks like the advantage of the colour coding is that you don't have to read them, so it's faster, and transcends language barriers. They use the same colours in many different countries for that reason.

MOO

 

[drsleuth]

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/im-sorry-im-sorry-inside-bus-drivers-emotional-night-in-jail/news-story/8fd117c6f2ab166666022f3362feb66d?amp

Inside Hunter Valley bus driver’s emotional night in jail​

The bus driver charged over the deaths of 10 people in a catastrophic Hunter Valley wedding crash was seen “curled up” and sobbing after he was initially refused bail.

 

[drsleuth]

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/former-crash-investigator-explains-why-so-many-passengers-died-in-hunter-valley-bus-disaster/news-story/ce1a391110bca44ef3b7dfdb1fcc69f4

Former crash investigator explains why so many passengers died in Hunter Valley bus disaster​

A former crash scene investigator has explained why the horrific Hunter Valley wedding bus crash claimed so many lives.

A former crash scene investigator says the passengers sitting on the left side in the horrific Hunter Valley wedding bus crash would have sustained catastrophic injuries from coming into contact with the road surface and guard railing.
And anyone standing in the centre or not wearing seatbelts would also have suffered “pretty bad if not fatal injuries” due to the nature of the accident, according to retired Victoria Police officer Peter Bellion.

“Effectively if you look at vulnerability of human impact tolerance, a sudden stop at 30km/h for a human being unrestrained will result in about 15 per cent fatality rate,” he said.

“For a sudden stop of about 40km/h that can result in about a 50 per cent fatality rate, and by the time that gets up to 50km/h, 85 per cent would be a fatal outcome.”


Whether or not passengers were wearing seatbelts would form a major part of the investigation, according to Mr Bellion, who said he “can’t confirm or deny but I’d suspect that’s most probably” a contributor to the high number of deaths.

He added, “In a rollover, obviously the main region that succumbs to injuries is head and upper body, so any time you’re standing in a rollover event there’s going to be more forces involved.”