Australia Australia - Celine Cremer, 31, Belgium backpacker, car found at the Philosopher’s fall track, Waratah, Tasmania, 12 June 2023

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azure said:
I don't want to disagree with an expert, but I will say that the Midwest USA and Tasmania clearly have very different ideas of "freezing" weather. The daily highs in Waratah are around 60, with the lowest low I can see being 45. Is the falls at a significantly higher elevation than Waratah?
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I would say it is pretty cold if "snow and rain is occurring"
 
They said members of the public who have been at the track since June 17 have contacted police "outlining their observations" while there.

They want to speak to a walker who was there about 2:30pm on Sunday, June 18.

"This person is not in any trouble we urge you to make contact as you may be able to assist us in establishing Ms Cremer's movements prior to her going missing," they said in a statement.

some good photos and a map here
 
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azure said:
I don't want to disagree with an expert, but I will say that the Midwest USA and Tasmania clearly have very different ideas of "freezing" weather. The daily highs in Waratah are around 60, with the lowest low I can see being 45. Is the falls at a significantly higher elevation than Waratah?
Click to expand...
I expect that they are very different climates. Tasmanian cold is icy bitter - not unusual to need a warm coat in the middle of summer and the wind chill factor means it often feels like below zero

for example today the expected top is 13, minimum 10, yet it’s currently 2 degrees and feels like -3.9.

how close is the midwest USA to antarctica or the arctic? Tasmania is surrounded by water and about 2,500km from the edge of Antarctica.
 
sapphire blue said:
I expect that they are very different climates. Tasmanian cold is icy bitter - not unusual to need a warm coat in the middle of summer and the wind chill factor means it often feels like below zero

for example today the expected top is 13, minimum 10, yet it’s currently 2 degrees and feels like -3.9.

how close is the midwest USA to antarctica or the arctic? Tasmania is surrounded by water and about 2,500km from the edge of Antarctica.
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If of course depends, from parts of Michigan it could be 2400km. The difference is that the coolest average low temperature there is nearly -9 Celsius.

I won't clog the thread disagreeing, though. I agree that in this length of time, the cold was not survivable.
 
Had to double check this one just met a Belgian backpacker called Celine last night.

The one I met was very naive when it came to safety with strangers and it seemed cultural. Hope this woman is found. Watching that Alone show in Tasmania it seemed very unforgiving for such a green environment.
 
www.abc.net.au

Police searching for missing Belgian tourist speak to hiker about her movements at waterfall track

Police searching for missing Belgian tourist Celine Cremer say a hiker in the area has responded to a plea to come forward to help with any further information about her movements.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

Police say a walker believed to have been in the area on Sunday, June 18 has responded to a plea to come forward

New vision released by police during the search for missing Belgian woman Celine Cremer shows the hostile conditions teams are facing as hopes fade for her to be found alive.
 
azure said:
If of course depends, from parts of Michigan it could be 2400km. The difference is that the coolest average low temperature there is nearly -9 Celsius.

I won't clog the thread disagreeing, though. I agree that in this length of time, the cold was not survivable.
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Waratah TAS is at the edge of the Tarkine wilderness, philosophers falls is in a cool temperate rainforest where it’s very damp, wet, muddy, rocky and slippery ground with fallen logs, lots of mosses and there are 3 types of venomous snakes - lowland copperhead, tiger snake and white lipped snake - although it’s freezing cold winter they Are still active.

here’s a video of the trail to give you an idea of the terrain
 
AussieSherlock said:
So sad indeed, Why are the police not considering foul play here? What’s to say she didn’t come across someone who kidnapped her, or similar?
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They may have looked at surveillance video to see whether she was being followed, and probably checked her financial accounts for usage, we don't know. But without any evidence, there's nothing to do. They need a lead that they can investigate to get closer to the truth : a body, a weapon, a witness account... Otherwise, what's the point? They'll never solve anything by randomly guessing what might have happened.

JMO
 
Cedars said:
They may have looked at surveillance video to see whether she was being followed, and probably checked her financial accounts for usage, we don't know. But without any evidence, there's nothing to do. They need a lead that they can investigate to get closer to the truth : a body, a weapon, a witness account... Otherwise, what's the point? They'll never solve anything by randomly guessing what might have happened.

JMO
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True , but just interesting they don’t even say they’re considering the possibility of foul play. Perhaps someone saw something but didn’t think to put two and two together because they’ve been adamant she wandered off and gotten lost as the only answer. And yes to look at cctv cameras is key - but also mobile phone triangulation and work out who was there that day. It doesn’t sit right with me that she just got lost like that. Unless falling into water maybe , but still seems odd hmm . She looks such a nice girl, this is just heartbreaking for her family and friends
 
AussieSherlock said:
True , but just interesting they don’t even say they’re considering the possibility of foul play. Perhaps someone saw something but didn’t think to put two and two together because they’ve been adamant she wandered off and gotten lost as the only answer. And yes to look at cctv cameras is key - but also mobile phone triangulation and work out who was there that day. It doesn’t sit right with me that she just got lost like that. Unless falling into water maybe , but still seems odd hmm . She looks such a nice girl, this is just heartbreaking for her family and friends
Click to expand...
I can't recall a single missing person case, or even discovery of a body statement, where police speculated about foul play.

IMO, we don't need the police to do that, we all speculate quite well on our own, and media/tabloids assist us in that.

IMO, we need police the way we need doctors: not to speculate and worry and mention cancer, hold our hands and cry with compassion for our pain, but to use their skill, experience, and understanding of probabilities, clues, etc, to try to accurately resolve the case.

Of course, if new information emerges they'll react to that. There'll probably be volunteers continuing the search when the weather is better.

JMO
 
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