Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #19

[Credulious]

So the familial technology retested on old evidence shed new light by finding the family of the accused.

It was then up to police to narrow down the future accused by researching the family using traditional police work.

No doubt Telstra worker would have set off alarm bells.

 

[El Gordo]

So the familial technology retested on old evidence shed new light by finding the family of the accused.

It was then up to police to narrow down the future accused by researching the family using traditional police work.

No doubt Telstra worker would have set off alarm bells.

Why would Telstra worker have set off alarm bells ... do they have a serial killer employment policy ... when was a telstra worker mentioned as a poi previously

 

[El Gordo]

Good one Janwa. This is a guess now, but I’m guessing WAPOL also have access to the extremely vast ANCESTRY DNA, Gedmatch and other databases (I use them to do my family tree). If you are a member of such DNA websites, it is relatively easy, in fact it is very easy to run a scan of your DNA (or in WAPOLs case - DNA gathered from a crime scene) against the database to see who the closest matches are. They could have come up with say a 200 centremorgans match (that’s like a very close relative) and then worked their way from there.
Just my opinion.


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Ok , i can see this one ... maybe the police data bases world wide are the original ancestry bases , i guess there could be paternity tests etc , but i dont think you would find grandad at a paternity test ... and a paternity test can eliminate you without knowing the real parents identity as well as prove paternity

Where did these ancestry data bases originate from , if you were one of the first to request info i do not think they would have just matched you to everyone in the office and hoped for the best ... interesting

 

[DRT]

Because there was no familial DNA on the database until the Kimono was tested?
ie, the person that hung the kimono on the clothesline and reported it stolen, was maybe a family member?

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I think it is really stretching possibilities that the Kimono belonged to the accused family member.

"It can be revealed that in 1988 — eight years before Sarah Spiers was abducted off a Claremont street — the white kimono was dropped by an intruder who broke into the home of an 18-year-old Huntingdale woman and tried to rape her.
Her screams caused him to flee and police believe the stolen kimono was accidentally dropped by the man as he ran out of the home."


http://www.news.com.au/national/cla...t/news-story/cdad7c5a6b825958b6d46cb11eb44c75

All indications in this are the DNA that exists are allegedly of the accused not of any family member. I don't think the oedipus complex applies in this case. I think he was a suspect in the Huntingdale assault and when other details matched the jigsaw pieces were put into place.

 

[ilikeclouds]

What ID methods are used for ancestry.com DNA tests?
Would it be possible to do a test under a name other than your own?
I could see how these matchups could quite easily be thrown out of court, then again I suppose they would do a re-test to make sure the said DNA match matches the actual person who registered the DNA to start with.
Would I be right to assume that WA Police would need a specialize warrant to compare DNA to those that self-submit DNA to ancestry.com? As they do not own the genealogy database DNA.

Sorry, just thinking out loud here.

 

[ilikeclouds]

Thought some of you may be interested in this:
https://www.ancestry.com.au/cs/transparency

 

[DRT]

Thought some of you may be interested in this:
https://www.ancestry.com.au/cs/transparency

From that article it indicates no person's DNA was requested in 2016 or 2015 but 2014 there was one request in relation to a warrant.

[h=2]Historical Context[/h] Ancestry did not receive any requests relating to the health or genetic information of any Ancestry member in 2015. In our history, we have received just one request relating to DNA information—a 2014 search warrant ordering us to provide the identity of a person based on a DNA sample that had previously been made public for which the police had a match. We disclosed information in response to that valid warrant.

https://www.ancestry.com.au/cs/transparency-2015

More about the DNA checking process saliva is used.
https://www.ancestry.com.au/dna/?st...xid=65947&o_lid=65947&o_sch=Paid+Search+Brand

My dad had ancestry DNA done but the main things he found out were concerning the nationality mix within the family.

 

[Eaglette]

Thought some of you might also be interested in this find. There is hope SS can be located. In this instance - there was no effort to conceal the body in the Australian bush and it was located within hours of the Police Officer's search.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...m/news-story/88ef97208d5b61686ac89ac94dfb0d06

 

[Frequant Flyer]

What ID methods are used for ancestry.com DNA tests?
Would it be possible to do a test under a name other than your own?
I could see how these matchups could quite easily be thrown out of court, then again I suppose they would do a re-test to make sure the said DNA match matches the actual person who registered the DNA to start with.
Would I be right to assume that WA Police would need a specialize warrant to compare DNA to those that self-submit DNA to ancestry.com? As they do not own the genealogy database DNA.

Sorry, just thinking out loud here.

from the amount of advertising they do I think the only identification they're interested in is your payment method

 

[El Gordo]

What ID methods are used for ancestry.com DNA tests?
Would it be possible to do a test under a name other than your own?
I could see how these matchups could quite easily be thrown out of court, then again I suppose they would do a re-test to make sure the said DNA match matches the actual person who registered the DNA to start with.
Would I be right to assume that WA Police would need a specialize warrant to compare DNA to those that self-submit DNA to ancestry.com? As they do not own the genealogy database DNA.

Sorry, just thinking out loud here.

Having given this a trivial amount of thought, I love the idea that their ID checks are very lax

For example , I enter the ID of my Aboriginal neighbour , who enters the ID of our Chinese mate , who enters the ID of the Swedish girl who works at the massage parlour and has access to allsorts of DNA

Who knew this girl from Hamilton could have such diverse ancestry

 

[Pandit]

Exactly.

I don't think they used Ancestry where the strict controls just aren't there. It would have told them absolutely nothing that was reliable. In fact, it could have sent them on another wild goose chase.

Having given this a trivial amount of thought, I love the idea that their ID checks are very lax

For example , I enter the ID of my Aboriginal neighbour , who enters the ID of our Chinese mate , who enters the ID of the Swedish girl who works at the massage parlour and has access to allsorts of DNA

Who new this girl from Hamilton could have such diverse ancestry

 

[CyberRH]

Ok , i can see this one ... maybe the police data bases world wide are the original ancestry bases , i guess there could be paternity tests etc , but i dont think you would find grandad at a paternity test ... and a paternity test can eliminate you without knowing the real parents identity as well as prove paternity

Where did these ancestry data bases originate from , if you were one of the first to request info i do not think they would have just matched you to everyone in the office and hoped for the best ... interesting

DNA testing has existed commercially for ancestry purposes for about 10+ years. www.23andme.com started in 2006 and familytreedna.com started around the start of the 21st century.
Anyways, people like me who have loose ends in their family tree buy a kit (AncestryDNA Australia sells them for something like $100-$150), spit into a test tube, send it off and voila...within a month or so they login online, hit the magic button and find relatives all over the world mostly 3-4+ generations away. Regardless of who you test with (there are many companies) most people then submit them into one kick•rse repository called gendmatch which has a stack of people’s DNA results on it. It can be pretty cool as we discovered that our Great Grandfather (who we knew little about) was the guy who Mitcham Victoria was named after.
Anyway, with the popularity of shows like SBSs “Who do you think you are?”, I have noticed a DRAMATIC increase in the number of Australians who have done the “spit test” and thus submitted their DNA online to find (mostly) distant relatives online. So given the masses of DNA voluntarily submitted online, the beloved police have an even bigger repository to test against. I’m sure if I looked hard enough I could locate some ‘interesting’ information



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[TheSecondLaw]

Why would Telstra worker have set off alarm bells ... do they have a serial killer employment policy ... when was a telstra worker mentioned as a poi previously

I don't believe it was ever publicly stated by WAPOL to media that they were specifically looking for a Telstra employee as a POI (correct me if I'm wrong), but the Telstra connection started gaining momentum in the public rumour mill due to at least the following factors :

The report in 'The Post' about telephone wire reportedly used in the KK assault (later reported as washing line)

Info released on a description of the type of car suspected to be involved (White Commodore VS Series 1 Wagon)

Apparent rumours of a 'Telstra guy' offering lifts to women in the Claremont area (I have only read these rumours as heresay in the CSK threads on WS).

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...w-clues-on-murderers-car-20151204-glfnot.html

 

[CyberRH]

What ID methods are used for ancestry.com DNA tests?
Would it be possible to do a test under a name other than your own?
I could see how these matchups could quite easily be thrown out of court, then again I suppose they would do a re-test to make sure the said DNA match matches the actual person who registered the DNA to start with.
Would I be right to assume that WA Police would need a specialize warrant to compare DNA to those that self-submit DNA to ancestry.com? As they do not own the genealogy database DNA.

Sorry, just thinking out loud here.

Hi cloud person
YES you could definitely submit your DNA and associate the name Fred Flinstone to it. The only gotchas I suppose are
1- the address you ask the company to send the DNA kit to. So even if you put a friends address down they would track you down sooner or later and
2- your email address and originating IP address that you made the order from and
3- the credit card number you use to order the kit.
They’d find you via one of those 3 I reckon...


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[Pandit]

Interesting you mention the Yorkshire Ripper Jan ... MACRO hooked into the UK's HOLMES system via a dedicated TELEPHONE line to sort the mass of information coming in on CSK.

"The HOLMES system was set up after the police failed to pull together leads pointing to the identity of the Ripper, allowing Peter Sutcliffe initially to slip through the police inquiry net."

Seems the information MACRO used this might have been pulled from the net. Funny that. :thinking:

But I might have imagined the whole thing ...

RE: Familial DNA
http://www.news.com.au/national/cla...t/news-story/cdad7c5a6b825958b6d46cb11eb44c75

"As part of a continuing operation to retest old evidence with new technology, officers from the State Crime Operations team did DNA tests on the kimono.....It is understood the DNA samples came back as a match to samples already on the police database — samples that had been recovered from the body of the third Claremont victim, Ciara Glennon, and from a 17-year-old woman who was grabbed in a Claremont street in 1995 and then assaulted at the nearby Karrakatta cemetery.....While the DNA link did not give them a name for that person, it did provide detectives with fresh investigative opportunities contained within the pages of the 1988 case file...As a result of re-examining that case, it’s understood the major breakthrough — the details of which are not yet clear — came within weeks." BBM

WAPOL already had DNA sample from CG (date?)
WAPOL already had DNA sample from KK (2015?)
The KK and CG DNA samples matched (2015?)
Then they found DNA sample on Kimono that matched TWO prior samples (2016)
So THREE matching samples......

So good policing would assume that any database searches for FAMILIAL DNA matches would have occurred pretty much immediately after finding the LCN DNA sample on CG AND/OR immediately finding DNA sample on KK case. ie long before WAPOL got DNA sample from the kimono!!!!
........................................
Those sleuths that believe that Familial DNA searches AFTER the kimono link was THE key to finding BRE - please explain to me WHY police waited for a THIRD matched sample of DNA BEFORE searching Familial Databases??????
........................................
Only things I can think of is that another family member only offended and appeared on the DNA register after the CG and KK revelations. Or the KK and CG samples were not of the quality to produce identification against the database./QUOTE]

It's starting to sound like a touch of the Yorkshire Ripper he was interviewed about 9 times, even after people had given accurate descriptions of him.

Did a 'minor' attack victim early on in the piece name him or someone ring the police and put his name forward but it wasn't followed up.

 

[El Gordo]

I don't believe it was ever publicly stated by WAPOL to media that they were specifically looking for a Telstra employee as a POI (correct me if I'm wrong), but the Telstra connection started gaining momentum in the public rumour mill due to at least the following factors :

The report in 'The Post' about telephone wire reportedly used in the KK assault (later reported as washing line)

Info released on a description of the type of car suspected to be involved (White Commodore VS Series 1 Wagon)

Apparent rumours of a 'Telstra guy' offering lifts to women in the Claremont area (I have only read these rumours as heresay in the CSK threads on WS).

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...w-clues-on-murderers-car-20151204-glfnot.html

Thank you , the rumors of the Telstra guy I was not aware of ... but as you say , rumors

The telephone wire I never bought into because every home in the country with a land line has telephone wire ... and the car could have been anything ... if you just look at what is said here ... the white car with no ID... but the rumors Know its a Telstra guy , how from the ID that is not on the white car

Thank you again for the feedback

 

[CyberRH]

What ID methods are used for ancestry.com DNA tests?
Would it be possible to do a test under a name other than your own?
I could see how these matchups could quite easily be thrown out of court, then again I suppose they would do a re-test to make sure the said DNA match matches the actual person who registered the DNA to start with.
Would I be right to assume that WA Police would need a specialize warrant to compare DNA to those that self-submit DNA to ancestry.com? As they do not own the genealogy database DNA.

Sorry, just thinking out loud here.

Ooooh to answer your other question, and it was good thinking indeed on your behalf, and that is that either the Police have the power to ask these DNA database owners to run comparisons (I remember in the late 80’s when I worked for the TAB, the cops were always coming in ordering reports on criminals’ TAB phone accounts) OR they could submit the accused DNA under the name Jo Blow and see who it matches with. Cos that’s how easy it is - with my DNA online, all I have to do is hit the magic button and it produces something like the image below for my results. I’ve had to blank out bits to protect people’s privacy. You’ll see the top 5 or so have ‘high numbers’ - all family members and it’s not too hard for me to nut

out who the next 10-15 people are based on email addresses etc.
Hope that helps you all appreciate how it works.


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[El Gordo]

Hi cloud person
YES you could definitely submit your DNA and associate the name Fred Flinstone to it. The only gotchas I suppose are
1- the address you ask the company to send the DNA kit to. So even if you put a friends address down they would track you down sooner or later and
2- your email address and originating IP address that you made the order from and
3- the credit card number you use to order the kit.
They’d find you via one of those 3 I reckon...


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I can see that locating you if required would not be difficult , but I think the point is how corrupted is ancestries data base , you could corrupt the database solely for amusement and nobody would have any reason to look for you , you would be playing into their hands if you did so because it makes it more exotic ... and before anyone asks why would you do it ... I have a relative that drives us insane with their family trees , there are holes so big in the info you could drive a bus through them but they cannot be told ... I can see the funny side of submitting another's DNA under my name to add to the fun

 

[Canning Vale]

You are right about the DNA link but the Familial search would give a name of whoever the relative is and they work back from there. Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission by it's nature holds all convicted criminals DNA, Fingerprints etc. That name led them to identifying the DNA on the Kimono. I don't think it came from the Edwards house as some ex husband at some point made a report of it being stolen that was on this forum last year.

In the past, I suggested, perhaps a familial DNA match came from an offspring – thinking "just maybe" a former girlfriend had a child when they were younger. Just my thoughts - I don't know.

 

[El Gordo]

I don't believe it was ever publicly stated by WAPOL to media that they were specifically looking for a Telstra employee as a POI (correct me if I'm wrong), but the Telstra connection started gaining momentum in the public rumour mill due to at least the following factors :

The report in 'The Post' about telephone wire reportedly used in the KK assault (later reported as washing line)

Info released on a description of the type of car suspected to be involved (White Commodore VS Series 1 Wagon)

Apparent rumours of a 'Telstra guy' offering lifts to women in the Claremont area (I have only read these rumours as heresay in the CSK threads on WS).

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...w-clues-on-murderers-car-20151204-glfnot.html

I have just read the article you linked , interestingly it was the clothes line with screen printing dyes that got me interested in this because a person who had been linked by some to the CSK case was into screen printing

It also made me wonder what I had got myself into by coming on this site because out of nowhere people were posting theories about secret screen printing classes in vacant warehouses near the cemetery

Why anyone would hold covert screen printing classes had me beat , but there were photos of rubbish bins where the covert screen printers may have thrown their rubbish , maps of what you could see from the imaginary screen printing workshop , photos of screen printers shops , it was about this time I stopped coming on the site