Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #19

[El Gordo]

Perhaps they worked on a roster system.

If it took place it would have definitely been on a roster system , maybe it didn't happen either

 

[LennyAustralia]

The report says that certain items of clothing remain missing from the murder scenes of both the women whose bodies have been found, Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon.

It says police are convinced both women were killed close to where they were abducted, and on the same nights that they were abducted.

They were not murdered where they were found.

http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/JulieCutler.htm

My theory is that all victims shared the same fate as KK victim. The difference being that the last 3 victims would not leave Karrakata alive. I think they would have been raped then strangled/choked in the cemetery and then perhaps more violently attacked at the dump site to ensure they were definitely deceased. I believe his MO was always rape but escalated when hearing about KK's survival in the news, murder was his way of destroying the evidence.

 

[janwa]

Do you mean the guys outside hungry jacks who saw Ciara? If so, isn’t Frankie one of them, that’s why he’s not allowed to discuss the case anymore?
If not, which guys do you mean?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Were the 3 young men on cctv
do we know if they come forward to the police themselves with their info
was there corroboration from others on the street that they were actually there.

I realise it's Frankie with his mates waiting at a bus stop. they see a girl bending down talking to someone in a car. They turn away then look back and the girl and car have gone.

Then this item in

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/exclusive-perth-suburb-marks-deadly-anniversary-of-when-girls-started-going-missing/news-story/cf04c9884ab6e6992b3749f5737d8554

[FONT=LiberationSerif, Times New Roman, Times, serif]On March 14, 1997, three young men in a car saw Ciara Glennon walking along the Stirling Highway near the 24-hour Hungry Jack’s, which is still a late night stop for revellers.[/FONT]

[FONT=LiberationSerif, Times New Roman, Times, serif]I was wondering if any definite confirmation had come up for either incident even that there were 2 incidents. The Frankie account gives the possibility of her getting in a car, but the HJ account discounts this. [/FONT]

 

[DRT]

As it stands BRE has pled neither guilty or not guilty. At what point does a plea need to be entered? Is there a cut off time since charges were laid or is it a point in the legal process? What is the benefit to entering no plea?


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This was posted by OneSmallStepAtATime in an earlier forum from resource http://www.lawsocietywa.asn.au/wp-c...edure-Teacher-Student-Post-Visit-Resource.pdf
.
Criminal Pre-Trial Procedures –
Supreme Court
1. First Appearance – Magistrates Court
All charges, regardless of seriousness, begin in the Magistrates Court. During the
first appearance the prosecution notice (the charge) is read to the accused and the
accused may apply for bail.
2. Stirling Garden’s Magistrates Court
If the Supreme Court has jurisdiction to hear the charges the accused, after their
first appearance, will be immediately remanded to appear in the Stirling Gardens
Magistrates Court. Due to the Supreme Court’s limited jurisdiction, the SGMC is able
to effectively streamline pre-trial processes.
3. Pleas/Committal Mention
After receiving legal advice the accused is required to enter a plea. If the accused
pleads not guilty or if they unsure how to plead they will appear at a Committal
Mention Date. The prosecution must provide all of their evidence to the accused prior
to Committal Mention.
4. First Appearance –Supreme Court
Once the accused person’s charges have been committed (formally transferred) to
the Supreme Court the accused will have a ‘First Appearance’. At the First
Appearance the Judge will seek to confirm the not guilty pleas and set provisional
trial dates.
5. Status Conference
At a status conference trial dates will be confirmed and all parties will ensure the
matter is ready to go to trial. The court will inquire as to whether there are any
matters that need to be dealt with prior to trial, for example in relation to the
admissibility of evidence.
6. Directions Hearing
If a complex issue or dispute is raised at a Status Conference the judge may order a
Directions Hearing so any issues can be resolved prior to trial. At a Directions
Hearing each party will make submissions and the issue will be resolved.
7. Trial
At trial, the prosecution have to prove to the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that the
accused person is guilty of the offence. The accused person does not need to prove
that they are innocent. If the accused person is found guilty they will be sentenced at
the conclusion of a trial, or at a later date.

 

[Canning Vale]

Credulios,

When I worked for a WA state government department the vehicles were definately auctioned. Employees went to the auction to purchase a vehicle. That wasn't Telstra though.

 

[Credulious]

My theory is that all victims shared the same fate as KK victim. The difference being that the last 3 victims would not leave Karrakata alive. I think they would have been raped then strangled/choked in the cemetery and then perhaps more violently attacked at the dump site to ensure they were definitely deceased. I believe his MO was always rape but escalated when hearing about KK's survival in the news, murder was his way of destroying the evidence.

Imagine heading back to Karrakatta though with Ciara. That would be extremely high risk.

There is that empty Karrakatta warehouse people were writing about.

The report says that certain items of clothing remain missing from the murder scenes of both the women whose bodies have been found, Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon.

It says police are convinced both women were killed close to where they were abducted, and on the same nights that they were abducted.

They were not murdered where they were found.

http://www.australianmissingpersonsr...ulieCutler.htm

 

[Credulious]

Credulios,

When I worked for a WA state government department the vehicles were definately auctioned. Employees went to the auction to purchase a vehicle. That wasn't Telstra though.

Before 2000?

The whole system has changed a bit I see. I wonder if that was a change with the transition of Telecom to a fully privatised Telstra?

Vehicles still went the auction house but staff were given a pre auction option

 

[Owlie]

Were the 3 young men on cctv
do we know if they come forward to the police themselves with their info
was there corroboration from others on the street that they were actually there.

I realise it's Frankie with his mates waiting at a bus stop. they see a girl bending down talking to someone in a car. They turn away then look back and the girl and car have gone.

Then this item in

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/exclusive-perth-suburb-marks-deadly-anniversary-of-when-girls-started-going-missing/news-story/cf04c9884ab6e6992b3749f5737d8554

[FONT=LiberationSerif, Times New Roman, Times, serif]On March 14, 1997, three young men in a car saw Ciara Glennon walking along the Stirling Highway near the 24-hour Hungry Jack’s, which is still a late night stop for revellers.[/FONT]

[FONT=LiberationSerif, Times New Roman, Times, serif]I was wondering if any definite confirmation had come up for either incident even that there were 2 incidents. The Frankie account gives the possibility of her getting in a car, but the HJ account discounts this. [/FONT]

Thanks for clarifying. I don’t recall hearing about the three guys in a car seeing Ciara, before, only about Frankie and his friends sitting outside HJ’s (Burger King for those outside WA). I wonder if it’s two different sightings or if the journo in this article muddled them up? I guess we won’t know until the trial proper begins and any such witnesses are called.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Credulious]

This was posted by OneSmallStepAtATime in an earlier forum from resource http://www.lawsocietywa.asn.au/wp-c...edure-Teacher-Student-Post-Visit-Resource.pdf
.
Criminal Pre-Trial Procedures –
Supreme Court
1. First Appearance – Magistrates Court
All charges, regardless of seriousness, begin in the Magistrates Court. During the
first appearance the prosecution notice (the charge) is read to the accused and the
accused may apply for bail.
2. Stirling Garden’s Magistrates Court
If the Supreme Court has jurisdiction to hear the charges the accused, after their
first appearance, will be immediately remanded to appear in the Stirling Gardens
Magistrates Court. Due to the Supreme Court’s limited jurisdiction, the SGMC is able
to effectively streamline pre-trial processes.
3. Pleas/Committal Mention
After receiving legal advice the accused is required to enter a plea. If the accused
pleads not guilty or if they unsure how to plead they will appear at a Committal
Mention Date. The prosecution must provide all of their evidence to the accused prior
to Committal Mention.
4. First Appearance –Supreme Court
Once the accused person’s charges have been committed (formally transferred) to
the Supreme Court the accused will have a ‘First Appearance’. At the First
Appearance the Judge will seek to confirm the not guilty pleas and set provisional
trial dates.
5. Status Conference
At a status conference trial dates will be confirmed and all parties will ensure the
matter is ready to go to trial. The court will inquire as to whether there are any
matters that need to be dealt with prior to trial, for example in relation to the
admissibility of evidence.
6. Directions Hearing
If a complex issue or dispute is raised at a Status Conference the judge may order a
Directions Hearing so any issues can be resolved prior to trial. At a Directions
Hearing each party will make submissions and the issue will be resolved.
7. Trial
At trial, the prosecution have to prove to the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that the
accused person is guilty of the offence. The accused person does not need to prove
that they are innocent. If the accused person is found guilty they will be sentenced at
the conclusion of a trial, or at a later date.

Not even in the Supreme Court yet. Best set up a tent.

He briefly appeared in Perth Magistrates Court the day after his 2016 arrest,

https://www.smh.com.au/national/wes...-first-time-in-11-months-20180227-h0wq4p.html

 

[Owlie]

Looking at BRE’s school photo he hasn’t changed much since he was a teenager. He has distinctive features and not someone you’d forget in a hurry.

He would have been tall, slim with dark hair - nicely cut, and parted on the right-hand-side. Thinking he rode a pushbike back and forth to Gosnells High school - along Southern River Rd. Nowadays he wears glasses and possibly did back then. JMO

He went to my high school two years below me. But I never heard of him at school, there were other boys in his year or below who I knew of who were notorious for getting into trouble and/or being Gozzy Boys.
One of my friends has a younger brother who was in his year, who didn’t remember him either.
From this I deduce that he was very quiet at high school.
Gosnells/Huntingdale/Southern River are quite large areas so I’m sure plenty of crimes occurred outside of school hours but I had no idea who committed them.


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[meticulously]

Thanks for clarifying. I don’t recall hearing about the three guys in a car seeing Ciara, before, only about Frankie and his friends sitting outside HJ’s (Burger King for those outside WA). I wonder if it’s two different sightings or if the journo in this article muddled them up? I guess we won’t know until the trial proper begins and any such witnesses are called.


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Good pickup Owlie & Janwa , think there are mistakes. Seems like a shonky article with errors or poor researching.
I've never heard of that story ,
in my opinion .

 

[Credulious]

He went to my high school two years below me. But I never heard of him at school, there were other boys in his year or below who I knew of who were notorious for getting into trouble and/or being Gozzy Boys.
One of my friends has a younger brother who was in his year, who didn’t remember him either.
From this I deduce that he was very quiet at high school.
Gosnells/Huntingdale/Southern River are quite large areas so I’m sure plenty of crimes occurred outside of school hours but I had no idea who committed them.

At what age of the accused would the Kimono crime have occurred?

I hadn't a blemish on my record till I left highschool. Then it was assault charges, drugs, possession of firearm, etc within 12 months.

 

[Credulious]

Thanks for clarifying. I don’t recall hearing about the three guys in a car seeing Ciara, before, only about Frankie and his friends sitting outside HJ’s (Burger King for those outside WA). I wonder if it’s two different sightings or if the journo in this article muddled them up? I guess we won’t know until the trial proper begins and any such witnesses are called.

Was it Sarah? Are the three guys in one of the documentary videos in a car, one looks back and she is gone?

 

[Canning Vale]

Credulious,

You questioned before 2000 - I worked at the W/C until 2014. I didn't know abut the Telstra pre auction option.

 

[petedavo.au]

Something I have considered since the arrest of BRE ... Telstra must have a small group of techs on nightshift for emergencies , a car crash for eg. wipes out parts of the network ... if so what area would they have been based in at the time.. I have no idea where their depots were ... and I could be totally wrong

Yes. The accused was in a special team of Telstra techies that got overtime and call outs. My old school friend only ever worked in the normal team under the accused's father. The team that the accused worked in was a sought after by techies due to the extra money from call outs after hours and on weekends.

Originally the accused's tech team was based in Ewing St Bentley Telstra Depot, until early 1990's when The Telstra Complex in Kewdale Rd was being built. The Technicians depot was originally in demountable buildings until the Complex was completed.

Yes, before you ask, we discussed the compensation basin (Bush area) that you can see immediately north of the Telstra Complex in Kewdale in previous threads, and a D/Sgt from Macro was told that it might be a site worth searching.

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[Austom]

At what age of the accused would the Kimono crime have occurred?

I hadn't a blemish on my record till I left highschool. Then it was assault charges, drugs, possession of firearm, etc within 12 months.

He would have been 18-19 in 1988 Kimono.
25 in 1995 Karrakata.
26 in 1996 SS&JR
27 in 97 KG


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[Credulious]

I wonder if forensics ever did any analysis of the Claremont warehouse on Government road, opposite the Karrakatta cemetery where they found the book with all the wiring diagrams?

I know police originally ignored the fellows calls.

 

[Pandit]

I agree with this and think we may have dismissed the Fountain Way property as factoring in to where he took the girls too quickly. I had another look last night, note the two huge roller doors on remote control. He could have taken the girls straight in without even getting out of the car and quietly rolled them down.

The Karrakatta attack in 1995, Esuiw was still registered at 10 Fountain Way. I think this is why she survived. When Sarah was taken in 1996 Esuiw had moved out, he had a house to himself probably for the first time in his life and he was free to indulge his worst fantasies. Then Jane and finally Ciara. The house in Fountain Way was sold one day before Ciara's body was found and he moved out to live with his parents.

This is why imo he stopped killing, it was for practical reasons. He didnt have the privacy and security of own house any more.

When the Fountain Way property was inspected, police were walking out with evidence bags but most of the attention went onto Madora Bay and the house he was currently living in. The people living at Fountain Way at the time of the arrest had to move out of that property and all their furniture went out as well when investigators went in. Whatever samples police did take out of there, it would have taken some time for results to come back. While there might not be much left by way of evidence after 20 years to find at that property, I think this is where he took the girls. Perhaps the question might be, as a single man with an empty house ... why wouldn't he?

In terms of where Sarah Spiers may be, that she left to her final destination from Huntingdale and not Claremont may be taken into consideration.

The clues I think are there to find in this article ... and more specifically in the roller doors.

http://www.news.com.au/national/wes...s/news-story/557f281e68cdf76d572843291ea9cef7

The report says that certain items of clothing remain missing from the murder scenes of both the women whose bodies have been found, Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon.

It says police are convinced both women were killed close to where they were abducted, and on the same nights that they were abducted.

They were not murdered where they were found.

http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/JulieCutler.htm

 

[Canning Vale]

Credulious,

The accused CSK was born on 7 Dec 1968. So February 1988 he would have been 19 and two months.

During that era I lived and worked within Huntingdale and recall the incident.

 

[Credulious]

He would have been 18-19 in 1988 Kimono.
25 in 1995 Karrakata.
26 in 1996 SS&JR
27 in 97 CG

He would have left school at 17? Kimono at 18?

1988 was year of the driving licence. That first car. What was it?

Was it the graduation bunky to get to Telecom?