Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[Bartholemeus]

I don't see why it simply couldn't be a confident guy who was a well known "face" in that scene who had either been chatting to the girls on the night or have seen them around enough to be recognised by them.

Certainly possible.

If I am to believe that LW is the prime suspect

He was prime suspect up until 2004. After that we don't know. We know that pre-2004 some Macro members were on record saying he would never be ruled out. And that would be true barring a DNA read or someone else being convicted. Unfortunately we have no reliable visibility as to whether they do have DNA and he has been ruled out or not.

then I'd need to ignore all that has been said about him being a loner/social outcast.

He had no friends.

From what I have heard he might have been seen driving around and he may have offered a lift to an undercover D but how many times did he offer lifts and was seen?

Once that we know about which is more than anyone else. He gave me a lift multiple times but I was hitch hiking. I don't recall if he ever offered me a lift when I was just walking along the Highway but it's quite possible.

How many times was he seen to park up on the periphery of Claremont and wait or loiter on the streets? If he wasn't often stopping to offer lifts often then his strike rate for when he did must have been around 100%.......either that's accurate and he is the guy or the maths tells us its extremely unlikely.

While it's the biggest flaw in LW theory it's not extremely unlikely. Someone had to get a 100% strike rate. Sure, it's more likely someone in a taxi or a dude who looks like Ryan Gosling with mad pick up skillz, but all the same, we're looking at 100% strike rate. Maybe it was a blitz/pick up combo which makes the 100% strike rate more likely? Also, we don't know how he got them in the car. Could have used a Bundy like trick or what Adrian Bailey used.

When DM in her book said he was stalking women, what did she mean? That he drove slowly while they walked from pub to club? He followed them home? unlikely the 2nd option as it's written he kept the same route continuously. If its the first then we have a lot of stalkers in Perth.......they just call it doing bog laps.

Apparently he was an expert stalker. He follow girls without them knowing. Apparently he admitted to police he had been stalking women since the late 80s. Every thurs, fri, sat and sun nights. 8 years of stalking 4 nights per week. No other distractions (i.e. friends and other interests) except thinking about how to be a better stalker. It's not that much a stretch for him to be able to develop an A-grade abduction technique.

Macro put heavy surveillance on LW for months. Routine stalking. No murders. Picked up an UC and let her go. This can quite easily be explained (either way). The CSK was most likely a planner. Planned his murders months in advance and during that time sexually fantasized about it. He probably set a date in advance meaning that all other nights he was out stalking (if it was LW) then he was "off". On those nights he was never going to do a kill. So the night he picked up the UC he may have been "off". He also may have picked her up to test the waters and see if police were watching.

There's no doubt there's some big short comings in LW theory, but this is a case where there are major short comings in every POI's theory.

More likely he is confidence man and is not only good at striking up a conversation but is easy enough on the eye that girls would be interested.

I don't think interested so much but rather at ease and trusting. It's human nature to favour good looking people. While this is a better fit than LW talking them into his car, who's our guy? Why did he stop?

 

[Bartholemeus]

maybe thats why all three girls peeled of from their freinds

Nope.

JR - highly likely. It's likely she peeled off because she was interested in someone she saw at the Conti that night. She was interested in another drink otherwise she would have gone back inside. But she waited outside alone where she knew this guy would walk past. She would probably have been hoping this guy approached her.

SS - Next to no chance. She has recently met a guy and was getting a taxi to his place in Mosman Park.

CG - Next to no chance - she was tired and heading home and had some bridesmaid prep the next day.

 

[northwest]

<modsnip> I believe that LW gave his DNA?? Can anyone confirm

 

[Sutton]

When did The Continental become the Red Rock Hotel?

 

[Sutton]

Hard to argue with that. I believe that LW gave his DNA?? Can anyone confirm

April 5, 1998.

Here's a timeline for LW (PDF and then a DB link to the same file).

View attachment Williams, Lance - Timeline.pdf
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8tu6g2dbqcyh7qf/Williams, Lance - Timeline.pdf?dl=0

If anything has anything else that should be added to this or sees any mistakes, let me know and I'll correct it.

 

[Sutton]

...While it's the biggest flaw in LW theory it's not extremely unlikely. Someone had to get a 100% strike rate. Sure, it's more likely someone in a taxi or a dude who looks like Ryan Gosling with mad pick up skillz, but all the same, we're looking at 100% strike rate. Maybe it was a blitz/pick up combo which makes the 100% strike rate more likely? Also, we don't know how he got them in the car. Could have used a Bundy like trick or what Adrian Bailey used...

Snipped. Sorry, I might be misunderstanding the conversation, but we can't know what the strike rate is unless we know which attempts the CSK is responsible for. If we attribute the stop sign/subway attack and Church Lane attack to the CSK, then his strike rate is not 100%. And we cannot know if he made any attempts in which the victim escaped, but did not report the attempt--such as the girl abducted from the Cottesloe Hotel car park who only came forth last year.

 

[Sutton]

Here is an interesting article that provides support for Steve Ross's interaction with Sarah. I don't know that he's still on anyone's list as a suspect, but I thought it was interesting and really shows how friendly and trusting Sarah was.

View attachment I saw Sarah too.pdf or here's the DB link:https://www.dropbox.com/s/24kaebfy4kfzxwe/I saw Sarah too.pdf?dl=0

Also, here is an updated version of the assaults in the area. (Post or PM me anything I omitted.)
View attachment Updated Attacks.pdf, and the DB link is https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxk6bxckov7rgi1/Updated Attacks.pdf?dl=0

 

[88mph]

Here is an interesting article that provides support for Steve Ross's interaction with Sarah. I don't know that he's still on anyone's list as a suspect, but I thought it was interesting and really shows how friendly and trusting Sarah was.

View attachment 100956 or here's the DB link:https://www.dropbox.com/s/24kaebfy4kfzxwe/I saw Sarah too.pdf?dl=0

Also, here is an updated version of the assaults in the area. (Post or PM me anything I omitted.)
View attachment 100957, and the DB link is https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxk6bxckov7rgi1/Updated Attacks.pdf?dl=0

Sorry to nit pick as you're normally so accurate, but you've accidently listed JC as 1998 (instead of 1988).

Would love to see this graphed somehow.

Also, how does this compare to other suburbs in Perth or around the world? Is this a high rate of attack given the population?

 

[88mph]

Here is an interesting article that provides support for Steve Ross's interaction with Sarah. I don't know that he's still on anyone's list as a suspect, but I thought it was interesting and really shows how friendly and trusting Sarah was.

View attachment 100956 or here's the DB link:https://www.dropbox.com/s/24kaebfy4kfzxwe/I saw Sarah too.pdf?dl=0

Also, here is an updated version of the assaults in the area. (Post or PM me anything I omitted.)
View attachment 100957, and the DB link is https://www.dropbox.com/s/hxk6bxckov7rgi1/Updated Attacks.pdf?dl=0

April 5, 1998.

Here's a timeline for LW (PDF and then a DB link to the same file).

View attachment 100955
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8tu6g2dbqcyh7qf/Williams, Lance - Timeline.pdf?dl=0

If anything has anything else that should be added to this or sees any mistakes, let me know and I'll correct it.

Brilliant.

He got his licence and bought a car on the same day?? Seems very calculated.

Had a one month old car detailed? The same car he didn't own when SS was abducted. That point is interesting but kind of contradicts itself.

Would love to see a connection to the Commadore fibres on JR. Lance had a Hyundai Sonata.

Great work Sutton!!

 

[Bartholemeus]

<modsnip> I believe that LW gave his DNA?? Can anyone confirm

Yes.

5char.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Snipped. Sorry, I might be misunderstanding the conversation, but we can't know what the strike rate is unless we know which attempts the CSK is responsible for. If we attribute the stop sign/subway attack and Church Lane attack to the CSK, then his strike rate is not 100%. And we cannot know if he made any attempts in which the victim escaped, but did not report the attempt--such as the girl abducted from the Cottesloe Hotel car park who only came forth last year.

There's also the issue of whether or not any of them were blitz attacks. The 100% strike rate refers to the success rate of convincing girls to willingly get in his car. The Claremont Subway and Cott Hotel don't count. Macro did an extensive investigation into girls who were offered lifts and lived. I don't believe LW came up in that one.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Brilliant.

He got his licence and bought a car on the same day?? Seems very calculated.

Had a one month old car detailed? The same car he didn't own when SS was abducted. That point is interesting but kind of contradicts itself.

Would love to see a connection to the Commadore fibres on JR. Lance had a Hyundai Sonata.

Great work Sutton!!

My understanding is he bought the car a few week prior to getting his licence back and got his licence back a day or so after SS was abducted. Under interrogation Police drilled him and accused him of hiring a car - which doesn't make sense because he actually had the car, not the licence.

Police found a car detailing receipt when they searched his house that showed he had his car detailed a day or two after one of the murders (can't recall which one)

I thought LW had an Excel rather than a Sonata but it doesn't matter a lot either way. He did choose a car that was the most common vehicle of it's time.

 

[billywhizz]

He did choose a car that was the most common vehicle of it's time.

Possibly because it was the cheapest?

You can't rent a car without a license. If the CSK is so methodical why commit a crime and drive around on the night without a license? On Australia Day of all days. Do you think he sped the whole way to the disposal points? No. He wasn't trying to draw attention to himself.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Possibly because it was the cheapest?

You can't rent a car without a license. If the CSK is so methodical why commit a crime and drive around on the night without a license? On Australia Day of all days. Do you think he sped the whole way to the disposal points? No. He wasn't trying to draw attention to himself.

Serial killer or not, it seems LW drove the whole way through being unlicenced. I'm unsure why police accused him of hiring a car when he already had a car.

 

[billywhizz]

Find it odd that there are leaks about following up previous crimes that were never solved/followed up. If the guy is the same one that is hanging around Swanbourne train stn tunnels and that area, there's a fair chance he would have lived right there or been to school exactly in that area. He would want to be able to run home and disappear after a fail attempt. Or disappear to a dark section of the school that is 100% free of people at night, probably due to not having a car.

Also odd MO for a guy that can charm people into a vehicle. If he's so patient and methodical then could at least wait until he has a car.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Are there leaks? Or has someone just been able to dig them up?

What about Cottesloe girl? Circa 1991 she gets abducted. She doesn't report it. But in 1996 there's a serial killer on the loose. Why the hell would she not go to the police in 1996/7? I don't want to blame a victim for anything but that info may have been handy in 1996.

On the LW car situation. He lost his licence for 10 years in 1984. Maybe 1986. Got it back a few days after SS disappeared. Apparently had a bought a new car a few weeks prior to SS. In the late 1980s he was presumably unlicensed but driving a yellow Corona. I wonder at what stage did he swap from the Corona to the Hyundai? Was there a period of no car in between?

 

[Bartholemeus]

A long-time Cottesloe resident said yesterday that he was

approached by two detectives who had been inspecting some bushes at the corner of Marine Pde and Beach St.

He said he was asked if he could remember any unusual smells near the beach about the time Ms Cutler's car was

recovered.

This apparently happened in 2002. 14 years after JC went missing.

I wonder what could have triggered them to go search here and make inquiries? There used to be an empty lot on the cnr of Beach and Marine (Northern side). Was pretty empty but did have some bushes. There's also the bushes across the road (beach side of Marine Pde). There's no way a DB could have been dumped in either of these places. The kitchen of the house next door on marine Pde looked right into that lot. The bushes near the beach had a cycle path going right past it and that had a lot of traffic. That beach is also one of Perth's premier windsurfing/wave jumping spots. There's people there all the time. I reckon I would have been right there many times during this period.

I wonder if they had a lead that made them check it out?

I wonder where JC met her killer? She was last seen in her car in the hotel car park alone. Did he get in the car there? Or did she drive to Cottesloe and meet him there?

 

[northwest]

The commodore fibres are a telling piece of evidence imo.......it could possibly be the thing that has diverted attention away from LW. If they cant place him in that vehicle without an elaborate back story (his parents garage was servicing one, main roads had them available for staff, he hired one with a fake licence etc. etc.) then surely looking elsewhere makes more sense regardless of the circumstantial evidence.

 

[north_west]

Even though SS and CG went to the same school there was a 9 year age gap. JR went to a public school (HSHS) and wasn't part of the private school set. Not of the girls had jobs that overlapped.

I'd be very surprised if the CSK knew all 3.

There is a scant Iona connection with all three. JR worked for someone who went to Iona.

 

[northwest]

There is a scant Iona connection with all three. JR worked for someone who went to Iona.

The degrees of separation within Perth's western suburbs is tiny. Connections through school/work/parents/sports all seems much closer than other areas. Money looks after money