Australia Australia - Corryn Rayney, 44, Como, WA, 7 August 2007

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I really appreciate your kind words. What a lovely group you are.

Was anyone in court today when the magistrate testified. I'm curious to know who "the girl" was whose name was suppressed.

I looked on the barrister profiles of the accused's colleagues (sir France's Burt Chambers) and was interested to see that webb's wife also specialises in defamation law.

Thanks for clarifying re the computer, that is not what I was told in our case.
 
I really appreciate your kind words. What a lovely group you are.

Was anyone in court today when the magistrate testified. I'm curious to know who "the girl" was whose name was suppressed.

I looked on the barrister profiles of the accused's colleagues (sir France's Burt Chambers) and was interested to see that webb's wife also specialises in defamation law.

Thanks for clarifying re the computer, that is not what I was told in our case.

I believe court has been adjourned until TUESDAY.... Guess they all need to regroup.
I'm hoping to attend on Tuesday eitherway.
 
I believe court has been adjourned until TUESDAY.... Guess they all need to regroup.
I'm hoping to attend on Tuesday eitherway.

Zoro, it will be so great if you can be there on Tuesday as it will be the 5th anniversary of Corryn's death. I have been trying to work out a way to be there on that day myself. I expect it could be a rather emotional day for some of the witnesses and I wanted to see it for myself.
 
Zoro, it will be so great if you can be there on Tuesday as it will be the 5th anniversary of Corryn's death. I have been trying to work out a way to be there on that day myself. I expect it could be a rather emotional day for some of the witnesses and I wanted to see it for myself.

I didn't realise the date on Tuesday.... ofcourse.
 
Just had a thought about how a SNAKE thinks.

This business about him having a problem with GAMBLING..........mmmmmm

I'm thinking as he became more successful in his career and his earning capacity increased, he got, for want of a better word....GREEDY!
Being the 'snake' that you are, you might not want to totally share your 'gain' in a marriage that was starting to show a few cracks.
So how better else to squirrel money away from the nest, than to plant the seed, that you have developed a GAMBLING problem.
I recall CR's dad mentioning that LR said that he backed 'long odds'. But VERY CLEVER people surely are not THAT STUPID especially when you are earning an extremely good wage.
So to be a little more convincing, you start leaving 'form guides' and the like around the house and perhaps other gambling evidence. It's very easy to pick up off the floor from the TAB someone elses ticket of misfortune as proof all the time remembering that if you REALLY did have a problem, you wouldn't be so careless.
In the meantime, instead of having a GAMBLING problem per say, you have transferred sums of money from time to time in overseas bank accounts. AND wasn't it reported that he had opened up bank accounts in the childrens names!
As the cracks get even deeper, there are now more arguments over money because things aren't being paid on time etc., so CR takes over the running of the house and hands him what she considers he needs.
PERFECT.... he is now in a better position to syphon off EVEN MORE without her knowing.
That is until she 'smells a rat' (or 'snake') and starts asking toooooo many questions....
The rest is history.....
Could I be that far out folks?
 
Just had a thought about how a SNAKE thinks.

This business about him having a problem with GAMBLING..........mmmmmm

I'm thinking as he became more successful in his career and his earning capacity increased, he got, for want of a better word....GREEDY!
Being the 'snake' that you are, you might not want to totally share your 'gain' in a marriage that was starting to show a few cracks.
So how better else to squirrel money away from the nest, than to plant the seed, that you have developed a GAMBLING problem.
I recall CR's dad mentioning that LR said that he backed 'long odds'. But VERY CLEVER people surely are not THAT STUPID especially when you are earning an extremely good wage.
So to be a little more convincing, you start leaving 'form guides' and the like around the house and perhaps other gambling evidence. It's very easy to pick up off the floor from the TAB someone elses ticket of misfortune as proof all the time remembering that if you REALLY did have a problem, you wouldn't be so careless.
In the meantime, instead of having a GAMBLING problem per say, you have transferred sums of money from time to time in overseas bank accounts. AND wasn't it reported that he had opened up bank accounts in the childrens names!
As the cracks get even deeper, there are now more arguments over money because things aren't being paid on time etc., so CR takes over the running of the house and hands him what she considers he needs.
PERFECT.... he is now in a better position to syphon off EVEN MORE without her knowing.
That is until she 'smells a rat' (or 'snake') and starts asking toooooo many questions....
The rest is history.....
Could I be that far out folks?

I am not sure about the gambling theory Zoro. I know highly intelligent people who gamble - they see it as a pastime - they go the long odds because they revel in the bigger wins. It's a form of denial - all their little bets are ignored and don't seem relevant when those comparatively large wins come along.

It is highly possible that he might have offshore bank accounts set up. We believe the prosecution know he set up a trust account for his daughter through which he channeled monies, but perhaps there were others set up in his own name or in overseas trusts, that he asked his key clients to pay into so that he could avoid paying tax on his earnings. Hopefully the ATO have investigated him too - if he was hiding money from his wife, he would have an equally big reason to hide money from the tax man!. If your wife is watching all your spending it would be very hard to enjoy time with your mistress.
 

Thanks for the link Solaris. I've been trying to find any information as to what the weather was like from the time of Corryn's disappearance up until her body being located. Below is a snippet from the link above where it mentions that "nearly 40mm of rain had fallen in Perth between Corryn's disappearance and the discovery of her car."

As mentioned, the rain didn't wash away the oil trail from the car but would the rain have damaged the place card left out in the open near where Corryn's body was found? Looking at the two pics of the place card, there doesn't seem to be any water damage at all. The writing on the card hasn't bled and the card itself looks to be intact except where it has come adrift on the fold.

It is suspected that the place card was dropped by the accused at the time of Corryn's burial, and not discovered for almost a week later. Is it fair to think that the card should have a lot more damage, especially from rainwater? It makes me wonder when the card did in fact get to where it was found.

MOO.

Another-Exhibit-from-Lloyd-Rayney-trial-the-dinner-place-card-found-near-Corryn-Rayneys-burial-s.jpg

322796-lloyd-rayney-trial.jpg

Then came an extraordinary discovery. A police officer noticed a trail of oil that led from under the car back along the street. Nearly 40mm of rain had fallen in Perth between Corryn’s disappearance and the discovery of her car. Yet rain had not washed away the black line of treacly oil, which police traced for nearly a kilometre along the bushy thoroughfare of Thomas Street and into the scrubland of King’s Park. As surely as if someone had led them there, police found themselves standing beside a freshly dug grave in the bush. Digging began on Thursday August 16 and, later that day, a body was located in the deep grave. Rayney was told DNA analysis showed it was his wife.

BBM.
 
Thanks for the link Solaris. I've been trying to find any information as to what the weather was like from the time of Corryn's disappearance up until her body being located. Below is a snippet from the link above where it mentions that "nearly 40mm of rain had fallen in Perth between Corryn's disappearance and the discovery of her car."

As mentioned, the rain didn't wash away the oil trail from the car but would the rain have damaged the place card left out in the open near where Corryn's body was found? Looking at the two pics of the place card, there doesn't seem to be any water damage at all. The writing on the card hasn't bled and the card itself looks to be intact except where it has come adrift on the fold.

It is suspected that the place card was dropped by the accused at the time of Corryn's burial, and not discovered for almost a week later. Is it fair to think that the card should have a lot more damage, especially from rainwater? It makes me wonder when the card did in fact get to where it was found.

MOO.

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BBM.

Hi Makara - I found this fact as I was checking on rainfall

"The wettest day in August 2007 was the 11th when 23.6 mm was recorded."

I seem to recall this was also the date that the card was found. Perhaps the heavy rains came after the card was located. More divine intervention ??

Some local feedback today from someone very close to this case. Expect more attempts by the defence to discredit the police handling of this case. The defence will continue to work on the strategy that the Police have done everything to fit LR to the crime - losing notes and ignoring witness statements which contradict their theory. The errors when logging evidence, the lack of seals on evidence are just the start. There are massive contradictions in the various Police officers diary notes. They will argue the police have acted similarly to the way they did in the Mallard case. They will also argue that only someone highly intelligent and who has killed before, could leave zero DNA at the crime scene. I believe more than 450 witness statements have been gathered. I also believe that tapes of the wire taps may be submitted - because there is nothing incriminating on them - of course these may have been doctored. (I may be wrong, but I automatically assumed that my source meant the illegal wire taps installed at the home and not wire taps that the Police installed later)

Generally although most people think locally think he is guilty they also believe that he will not be convicted.
 
Mouse detective, how helpful that you have this connection.

The "zero DNA" at the gravesite in light of the rains is not that much of an accomplishment particularly if the killer was the husband. His DNA could have been on her clothing or her car without the prosecutions being able to argue that it was abnormal and links him to the crime. One's husband's DNA would be all over one's clothing and car even if they were estranged, they were living under a roof and sharing care of chiidren. In the end of the day if they can show she went home that night, that he is the only person with the motive for the crime, and that there are artefacts (hankie, placecard) linking him to the gravesite then you would hope that would be sufficient for a conviction.

I assume the placecard was picked up before those heavy rains began because I doubt the family would have been out looking for their loved ones in the heavy rain. In Perth most rain seems to fall overnight, I don't know about what happened on that day.

What a travesty if someone got away with murder when there is so much circumstantial evidence.

It upsets me when the police get smeared as being corrupt and having it in for someone. Most police are not corupt at all and there are checks and balanecs in place. They would have been supremely careful in a case involving a high profile victim and suspect. I can't imagine who (in the police force or otherwise) would profit from setting Rayney up, certainly it bring a lot of shame upon the DPP. In light of the Mallard case one would think the police were being extremely cautious.

I agree that exaggerating the extent of your "gambling losses" is a fine way to ferret away money. Geez, Corryn thought he had been paid $200,000 when it was more like $750,000. Hiding that kind of money is a significant motive for murder in my mind. No wonder he has afforded to spend so much on his defence even while his business dried up. Gotta wonder too who was the beneficiary of his wife's life insurance policy? Is Bermuda a tax haven? That's where Rayney was living for a while when he first left his wife and the girls.

I have spoken more with my source about the computer and you were perfectly correct if the person wasn't constantly hiding gaps by de-fraging and similar. Sorry if I'm using the incorrect jargon, my computer background is minimal.

It's a shame that the name of "the girl" was suppressed on Friday, however if it was someone significant to the case then at least the judge knows who it was and can view her testimony in that light when the time comes.

If the Divine wanted to intervene, I sure wish wish He had done so before the murder :(
 
Thanks for the link Solaris. I've been trying to find any information as to what the weather was like from the time of Corryn's disappearance up until her body being located. Below is a snippet from the link above where it mentions that "nearly 40mm of rain had fallen in Perth between Corryn's disappearance and the discovery of her car."

As mentioned, the rain didn't wash away the oil trail from the car but would the rain have damaged the place card left out in the open near where Corryn's body was found? Looking at the two pics of the place card, there doesn't seem to be any water damage at all. The writing on the card hasn't bled and the card itself looks to be intact except where it has come adrift on the fold.

It is suspected that the place card was dropped by the accused at the time of Corryn's burial, and not discovered for almost a week later. Is it fair to think that the card should have a lot more damage, especially from rainwater? It makes me wonder when the card did in fact get to where it was found.

MOO.

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BBM.

Hi Makara

Please see the following link from the Bureau of Mete0rology. It shows the rainfall for each day of August 2007.

http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weatherData/av?p_nccObsCode=136&p_display_type=dailyDataFile&p_startYear=2007&p_c=-24266900&p_stn_num=009225

I have copied the information below to save you trawling through the data.

Date Rainfall mm

7th 8.4 Corryn was last seen on the evening of the 7th
8th 1
9th 0
10th 10.6
11th 23.6 Place card with LR's name found in Kings Park
12th 0
13th 0
14th 4.6
15th 0.4 Corryn's gravesite is found

If the place card was dropped on 7 August and the 8.4mm fell before the card was dropped and the 23.6mm fell after the card was found on the 11th, then at least 11.6mm of rain fell during the time that the place card was on the ground.

I agree that the place card did not appear to be water-damaged in any way so either of the following possiblities might apply:

a) the card was found under dense bush which shielded it from the rain,

b) less or no rain fell in Kings Park relative to the location at which the measurements for Perth Metro were taken. I also checked the rainfall from the Subiaco rain gauge and the pattern is similar but with slightly higher rainfall on those days than the Perth Metro gauge recorded,

c) the card was placed there between the time that the 10.6mm fell on 10th Aug and before the rain started on 11th Aug, or

d) the card was laminated or had a water repellent coating (I had assumed previously that it was just made of a cardboard-like material).

In another post I surmised that the card may have been dropped on the night of the dinner at the Bluewater Grill on 28 July. If that was the case, then the card would have been subjected to even more rainfall than if it was there for the 4 days between the 7th (when Corryn went missing) and the 11th (when it was found).

Although the place card may not have been dropped on 28 July, if LR is the perp then it still would have been a good opportunity for him to scope out burial sites after dropping his colleague and partner into the city and while Corryn and the girls were in Melbourne. Would be interesting to know what time the house alarm was turned off that night (i.e, I wonder what time he eventually got home?).

All very puzzling...:confused:
 
...They will also argue that only someone highly intelligent and who has killed before, could leave zero DNA at the crime scene. ...

Hi Mouse Detective

Dark horse has pointed out that if the husband was the killer then there would be no other unidentified DNA samples to be found. If anything, the lack of DNA or evidence to suggest another party was involved actually strengthens the Prosecution case that it was the husband. IMO of course :)

What is the chance that she was killed by a highly intelligent hitman? As I've said before, if a hitman was involved he/she would have done a better job than the bollard/car snafu.

Also, professional killers tend to use less personal and more immediately lethal methods to kill (e.g., a gunshot to the head).

Also, why use her own car and bury her in Kings Park rather than use another car and drive her hundreds of kilometres away and bury her where no one would ever find her body?

The fact that she was buried so close to the Como home is pertinent. If you were under time pressure to bury her and get back home (to reduce the risk that someone would notice you were not at home) you would not have the luxury of time to bury her hundreds of kilometres away in a very isolated place. IMO

I don't doubt what your source told you about the case, but I imagine the Defence would have to come up with some reasons why the Judge should consider that someone else may have killed Corryn. I would certainly be interested to know who else the Defence thinks might have killed Corryn and for what reason.
 
Dark Horse and Solaris - I couldn't agree more with you two.

I think it shows the defence are clutching at straws here. I have to be careful of what I say because the person I spoke to probably said a little more than was appropriate, given the nature of his/her involvement with this case. I would hate for this person to be singled out somehow.

It definitely indicates to me that the police found zero evidence of "non-family DNA" in Corryn's car

I agree that a professional hit would not have involved such rudimentary method of killing and disposing of the body and I agree why would the body not have been driven to a location miles away. LR did not want his children to know there mother had been killed - her wanted to protect them from that. It would be much easier for them to believe that maybe she would come home one day.

When asked, the person I spoke to, could not provide any suggestion as to who else might have a motive to kill Corryn and especially have a reason to hide her body in the way the murderer did. I think if there had been personal threats of some description to either Corryn or LR then that would have been mentioned.

They cannot explain how LR's place card came to be in that location in King's Park.

I sincerely hope that justice prevails.

The only good thing is that the WA Police began changing their processes in 2006, in light of the Mallard inquiry.

http://postnewspapers.com.au/crimeandjustice/cnj24.php

Going back to LR hiding money. I believe that Bermuda is a tax shelter - I hope the police have investigated any accounts LR opened up whilst he was there. Cannot help but wonder how his daughters feel, knowing that their father was hiding assets from their mother, using their names. Since it took so long for the Police to charge LR with murder - I also wonder if he actually made any claims or received any benefits following her death. I would be curious to know how readily he could move her assets from her name into his or his children's trusts and whether or not he would still be the trustee responsible for those trusts?

So many questions.
 
Minni - it's so good to see you here

:party::party:

hello Mouse!! I need to catch up on 20 pages!! its very interesting. I hope I get some time to read up and then I can waffle on over here for a bit!!!

(between you and me we are Minnie Mouse!)
 
Yes that one in the photo is the one that Llloyd was having an affair with. She also helped him with the phone tapping.
 
:fence:
Yes that one in the photo is the one that Llloyd was having an affair with. She also helped him with the phone tapping.

Is that known to be a fact? Or a rumour that is generally accepted?
 

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