Found Deceased Australia - Gary Tweddle, 23, Blue Mountains NSW, 16 July 2013 - #3

[Xantara]

Yep Fortunate posted the photos...

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased Australia - Gary Tweddle, 23, Fairmont Resort Leura, Blue Mountains, 16 July 2013 -#2


And Rabbit007's discussion about the photos/seeing pink shirt...

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased Australia - Gary Tweddle, 23, Fairmont Resort Leura, Blue Mountains, 16 July 2013 -#2

Thanks Marlywings. Can anyone else see the pink/purple shirt? Whereabouts on this ledge? I am straining my eyes but can't see anything!

 

[Lexis]

Thanks Marlywings. Can anyone else see the pink/purple shirt? Whereabouts on this ledge? I am straining my eyes but can't see anything!

Nope I can't, tried back then too and nil.

 

[Derryn Hunch]

This is an area I know quite a bit about (for once!) and unless there is a signal bouncing into that area .. perhaps off the cliffs opposite, but doubtful due to angles .. I truly don't believe there would be a signal on that ledge.

Going by reports, it did ping till 3am-ish. And I personally believe there could have been other phone activity as late as 2am.

Fair play! Then assuming what you are saying is correct, then the phone can't be down there - unless as you say, he fell closer to the 3am time... in which case it is more than likely down there...

 

[fruity]

Yes, very interesting article indeed.

I wonder how they know that undiscovered bodies are in those vast areas. Perhaps dogs led search teams to the doorstep of those vast areas.

Yes. Perhaps. Or maybe dowsers led them there.

Seriously though, just in case anyone is genuinely interested, police sometimes have a general idea about the location of a missing person. We've spoken about a few of them in this thread. The blue mountains is a harsh and rugged place and it's difficult to find people who go missing there. Other places are the same (eg old mine shafts and the surrounds in outback Australia). It's foolish to think that the coroner is going to open an inquest into the fact that some areas make it difficult to find people who have gone missing there. Pointing out that some areas have a high number of missing people because of the terrain isn't really worthy of ridicule.

 

[Lexis]

It sure doesn't seem that Gary would have fallen/rolled/jumped down that slope to reach that part of the cliff. Far too many obstacles and ledges along the way.

Agree and he might have even zigzagged a bit if he felt any steepness.
Also being a dry night, the ground litter would not have been very slippery. In the Blue Mountains bush there are generally little shrubs in the understorey and even grass tufts eg. Wallaby grass, esp. Poa grass that slow down a walker.

 

[Xantara]

Many thanks Figtree, Mayhem and Marlywings for the re-posting of photos and directions to where it is thought Gary was found. Very helpful. Puts it into a different perspective for me. I had imagined he might have been walking along that narrow path that Figtree had posted photos of not long ago. But looking at these pictures of the cliff again now, it appears GT must have strayed far beyond that little track at the back of the houses, before he actually fell down that cliff. Makes sense, because I was scratching my head as to how, if he'd 'fallen' back up there, he would not have been caught by all the trees still below him. Seems that he somehow forged downhill through all those trees and then fell at the drop off. Just really makes me wonder, why on earth did he get to where he was??!!

 

[fruity]

Exactly. Why was he there?

I hope the contents of the 17 minute call are disclosed at the inquest. I think a lot of our questions will be answered if/when we know what was said during that conversation. Reading between the lines (that Anika was contacted in the middle of the night, rather than waiting to see if he turned up the next morning) I think there's some kind of big news being kept quiet.

 

[FigTree]

I hope this makes sense...

Yellow broken line = main walking track in the bush
Red Arrows = Line in the terrain (as a marker)
Green Star = House
Yellow Circle - Drop down point (I dont know how far on the map - but reports have said 30 metres which may take it to the greened ledge below the drop point circle.

This is just from the photo lineups...

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[indigo7]

Exactly. Why was he there?

I hope the contents of the 17 minute call are disclosed at the inquest. I think a lot of our questions will be answered if/when we know what was said during that conversation. Reading between the lines (that Anika was contacted in the middle of the night, rather than waiting to see if he turned up the next morning) I think there's some kind of big news being kept quiet.

Not sure if we will ever get any clear answers Fruity. I just hope there is something in the Coroner's findings that will help us all to understand what Gary's intentions were that fateful morning. As you can see from all of the photos over the last few pages that Gary did not simply walk off a bush track and end up over a ledge - his location took considerable effort to get to. Again just WHY he was there may be an eternal mystery.

 

[FigTree]

Fair play! Then assuming what you are saying is correct, then the phone can't be down there - unless as you say, he fell closer to the 3am time... in which case it is more than likely down there...

Unless there was a series of falls.
I wonder if Police examined the possibility that Gary was trying to save himself after an initial fall. I still wonder how he landed in that position - if he had damaged his shirt it may have been from trying to get himself up through the crevice. There may have been more than one incident (fall).

 

[fruity]

Unless there was a series of falls.
I wonder if Police examined the possibility that Gary was trying to save himself after an initial fall. I still wonder how he landed in that position - if he had damaged his shirt it may have been from trying to get himself up through the crevice. There may have been more than one incident (fall).

I wondered that too. I thought at first that maybe they heard him fall during the phone call (but surely the police would have immediately released information asking for help to find a person injured in a fall).

 

[Xantara]

I hope this makes sense...

Yellow broken line = main walking track in the bush
Red Arrows = Line in the terrain (as a marker)
Green Star = House
Yellow Circle - Drop down point (I dont know how far on the map - but reports have said 30 metres which may take it to the greened ledge below the drop point circle.

This is just from the photo lineups...

.

Thanks so much for all this effort, Figtree! My understanding of the ledge, 30mtrs down, where Gary was found is that it is the row of bushes that you can see to the right of your circle, coming out about two thirds of the way down from the right curve of your yellow circle.

 

[FigTree]

I wondered that too. I thought at first that maybe they heard him fall during the phone call (but surely the police would have immediately released information asking for help to find a person injured in a fall).

I'm just thinking out aloud - and in theory with some of the timelines - and the speculation of a series of falls - but I'm trying to reason why he was there down the cliff - and I wondered if he was walking & talking along the edge and that's why he didn't see where he was going - his phone dropped out because he dropped the phone - and he could see where it went (the light of the phone may have still been active), it could have fallen down the slope or partial cliff - and he went to retrieve it, but realized he had got himself into a predicament and couldn't get back up the slope. In getting the phone back, he may have had no reception to let anyone know where he was stuck for quite a time. But in that time, in trying to get back to the top of the cliff, or find another way to get up the cliff ( he may have reached a point of having some reception) he has slipped.


It could be then questioned then 'why didn't he yell out for help'. I can only conclude (if this was the case) that Gary didn't believe he was in trouble or he thought he could get himself out of the situation - if he could just get his phone to work.

He may not have wanted to draw attention to the fact of what had happened, or because of the state he was in. It would make sense (though not logic) why no one called the Police to go and find someone who was 'wobbly' and lost.


and...Once more, I would like to question and know what was the last time his phone had any real physical activity from it - like a dialed number.

.
JMHO

 

[SouthAussie]

You’ve made some really valid points, FigTree. That phone tower would be set up to cater to the populated areas and the Great Western Highway, no doubt, with many dead spots in areas of very little or no population, and off the back-end of cliffs. Gary would probably have had a wealth of info stored in his phone .. client numbers, client data, important messages, etc. If he dropped it, I can see him trying to retrieve it if he thought it was at all possible.

He was a very physical guy, but after being outside in his shirtsleeves for a significant amount of time the effect of the very cold temps would be starting to hamper his usual agility, and maybe even his thought processes to a degree. And I don’t imagine slippery dress shoes would have been much of a help either.

The only issue I have is, what was he doing along the rim of that slope in the first place? How did he get there? Why on earth would he leave the road? Did someone leave him there, and they haven’t spoken up?


ETA: Or maybe they have spoken up, and that is why the police seem so certain it is misadventure.

 

[indigo7]

I'm just thinking out aloud - and in theory with some of the timelines - and the speculation of a series of falls - but I'm trying to reason why he was there down the cliff - and I wondered if he was walking & talking along the edge and that's why he didn't see where he was going - his phone dropped out because he dropped the phone - and he could see where it went (the light of the phone may have still been active), it could have fallen down the slope or partial cliff - and he went to retrieve it, but realized he had got himself into a predicament and couldn't get back up the slope. In getting the phone back, he may have had no reception to let anyone know where he was stuck for quite a time. But in that time, in trying to get back to the top of the cliff, or find another way to get up the cliff ( he may have reached a point of having some reception) he has slipped.


It could be then questioned then 'why didn't he yell out for help'. I can only conclude (if this was the case) that Gary didn't believe he was in trouble or he thought he could get himself out of the situation - if he could just get his phone to work.

He may not have wanted to draw attention to the fact of what had happened, or because of the state he was in. It would make sense (though not logic) why no one called the Police to go and find someone who was 'wobbly' and lost.


and...Once more, I would like to question and know what was the last time his phone had any real physical activity from it - like a dialed number.

.
JMHO

Or maybe he threw the phone in frustration when the battery ran out and then waited until dawn to try and find it or retrieve it?? After all it was the end of the day, Gary did make a 17 min call from his phone, he may have been using the phone as a torch so it's very possible it just turned itself off. I have an iPhone 5 and sometimes it just doesn't work even when there is battery power still registering on the bars of the phone. It occasionally just won't work at all until it's plugged back into a power source.

Phones these days contain SO much information - I agree that if he threw it or it somehow dropped down the cliff that he would have been quite desperate to retrieve it.

Still - so much we don't know!!

 

[H A L 9 0 0 0]

Just a few thoughts on the tattered shirt:-

If something less than innocent has taken place here and another person or persons were involved in moving Gary down that slope, I'm thinking getting a clutch hold on an item of upper body clothing like a shirt would be the most practical way for another party to guide a body through difficult terrain with one hand while keeping hold of shrubs etc with the other. Gravity and protruding vegetation would make this manageable for even one person in my view. But after being dragged over stony ground and catching on sharp rocks and woody material etc, I imagine a cotton shirt would be very tattered as a result.

I just wonder if there are many well concealed cavities in that particular location and exactly how probable that he should just happen to fall into one. Maybe there are many of these rock crevices around there, but if not I'd be asking what are the odds of falling and landing in what sounds to be a narrow fissure and almost perfectly concealed, (even from search helicopters)?

All my opinion only, not to be mistaken for fact.

 

[SouthAussie]

I have to say HAL9000, foul play hasn’t totally left my mind either. There are just too many unexplained disappearances in the Blue Mountains for me to dismiss the possibility without further knowledge. It seems that ‘accident’ may be the first conclusion reached, due to the dangerous terrain, even if the person didn’t go bushwalking.

And in most cases of suicide, the person doesn’t want not to be found as they generally seem to want closure for those left behind and to have a burial spot. They just don’t want to be found until they have passed.

I’m wondering if the Blue Mountains area, in fact, has many documented cases of suspected foul play in their missing persons files - and also if they have much of a record for solving suspected homicides.

I may be very wrong here, but it just seems like such an easy place to commit murder and hide the body .. and get away with the crime .. if a person was that way inclined. All it takes is one person with that kind of disposition ...

 

[FigTree]

I have to say HAL9000, foul play hasn’t totally left my mind either. There are just too many unexplained disappearances in the Blue Mountains for me to dismiss the possibility without further knowledge. It seems that ‘accident’ may be the first conclusion reached, due to the dangerous terrain, even if the person didn’t go bushwalking.

And in most cases of suicide, the person doesn’t want not to be found as they generally seem to want closure for those left behind and to have a burial spot. They just don’t want to be found until they have passed.

I’m wondering if the Blue Mountains area, in fact, has many documented cases of suspected foul play in their missing persons files - and also if they have much of a record for solving suspected homicides.

I may be very wrong here, but it just seems like such an easy place to commit murder and hide the body .. and get away with the crime .. if a person was that way inclined. All it takes is one person with that kind of disposition ...

I think they do investigate cliff falls with an open mind.
There was a case in 2009 of Sarah Rawson which raised a big investigation regarding if she had fallen or if she had been pushed, or had committed suicide.
The finding was that she had fallen. An alcohol related fall.
SMH REPORT...

.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think they do investigate cliff falls with an open mind.
There was a case in 2009 of Sarah Rawson which raised a big investigation regarding if she had fallen or if she had been pushed, or had committed suicide.
The finding was that she had fallen. An alcohol related fall.
SMH REPORT...

.

Thanks FigTree. I didn't notice alcohol mentioned .. just that Sarah was apparently urinating by the cliff's edge. What a strange place to urinate! Though I'm sure locals have heard more than what was printed in this article. The case certainly seemed worthy of an inquest - though Sarah's mum didn't seem too happy with the finding.

I truly mean no disrespect to the beautiful Blue Mountains or the LAC. It is just such a vast area, with lots of hidey holes, and plenty of people getting lost in 'normal' circumstances. I just hope there aren't homicide cases slipping through the cracks, so to speak.

 

[FigTree]

Thanks FigTree. I didn't notice alcohol mentioned .. just that Sarah was apparently urinating by the cliff's edge. What a strange place to urinate! Though I'm sure locals have heard more than what was printed in this article. The case certainly seemed worthy of an inquest - though Sarah's mum didn't seem too happy with the finding.

I truly mean no disrespect to the beautiful Blue Mountains or the LAC. It is just such a vast area, with lots of hidey holes, and plenty of people getting lost in 'normal' circumstances. I just hope there aren't homicide cases slipping through the cracks, so to speak.

Oh, I totally understand SouthAussie - there's also the suspicion that the Blue Mountains was another one of Ivan Milats dumping grounds...

Murderpedia - Ivan Milat. Read more:
Police also began re-examining the files of 15 other missing persons who had disappeared while hitchhiking in New South Wales and could also have been victims of Milat. On 8th August 1996, an investigation team began searching an area of the Blue Mountains, 100 miles west of Sydney, for what they feared could be a second burial ground.

Soon after Milat's conviction, police had also re-opened the murder case of 18 year old Peter Letcher, whose badly decomposed body was found by bush walkers in Jenolan State Forest in January 1988. There were certainly striking similarities to the backpacker victims. Letcher was last seen alive the previous November when he had hitched away from his home at Busby in south-west Sydney.

and also Jennifer Keagan:
Missing Person Australian Register
Her car was found at Govetts Leap - she hasn't been seen since.

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