Found Deceased Australia - Gary Tweddle, 23, Blue Mountains NSW, 16 July 2013 - #3

[hwneyz]

I'm a rookie sleuther on here but I think I have read just about every post on all threads in regards to Gary from the beginning (I guess I was considered a "guest", Marly correct me if I'm wrong). I have also read every single comment that people posted on "Have You Seen Gary Tweddle?" facebook page. One thing that keeps bothering me and I can't get out of my head is the rumor that was mentioned I believe as "he was over the cliff and in a tree". And this really upset alot of readers.......but it turned out true according to how it was reported he was found. Apparently this person heard it from his co-workers at the Fairmont Resort. I sure hope the workers were re-visited by NSW Police regarding that comment. (Which by the way has been removed from HYSGT's FB page) Also as I read on about the search dogs loosing the trace of Gary's scent upon leaving Watkins Rd., could it be possible that aside getting into a car and heading down Sublime Point Rd, maybe and I say this IMHO, but just maybe he could've hitched a ride on a golf cart or possibly a segway. I've checked out all of the Fairmont's activities and these are 2 other motorized vehicles that I haven't seen mentioned. They are small enough to go down the smallest tracks, yet they might have left fresh tire marks. Golf carts could plow through the dense bushes couldn't they? I don't know........JMO, nothing based on facts.

 

[Xantara]

With regard to Apple not being able to track his phone, that is true, but the device will have logged location information while it was powered. So assuming the phone has been recovered, it should be able to show a log of some of his movements, for example the time he passed any houses with wi-fi routers or which cell towers he was in range of. This data is not available to Apple, but is stored on the phone for the previous 7 days.
See the links below for details:
http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+is+T...+Easily+Mapped+With+OS+X+App/article21429.htm

and:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27Apple-Q-A-on-Location-Data.html

Welcome Werkal.
When Gary's body was eventually found, it was reported that 'no items were found on the body'. Later on, it was then reported that initial identification by his partner was enabled by, amongst other things, that his wallet was found on him. However, no mention was made of his phone. If he fell 30 metres, and if he had not already lost his phone before then, I'm just imagining the phone would well and truly have been lost by virtue of that fall - JMO though.

 

[Xantara]

I'm a rookie sleuther on here but I think I have read just about every post on all threads in regards to Gary from the beginning (I guess I was considered a "guest", Marly correct me if I'm wrong). I have also read every single comment that people posted on "Have You Seen Gary Tweddle?" facebook page. One thing that keeps bothering me and I can't get out of my head is the rumor that was mentioned I believe as "he was over the cliff and in a tree". And this really upset alot of readers.......but it turned out true according to how it was reported he was found. Apparently this person heard it from his co-workers at the Fairmont Resort. I sure hope the workers were re-visited by NSW Police regarding that comment. (Which by the way has been removed from HYSGT's FB page) Also as I read on about the search dogs loosing the trace of Gary's scent upon leaving Watkins Rd., could it be possible that aside getting into a car and heading down Sublime Point Rd, maybe and I say this IMHO, but just maybe he could've hitched a ride on a golf cart or possibly a segway. I've checked out all of the Fairmont's activities and these are 2 other motorized vehicles that I haven't seen mentioned. They are small enough to go down the smallest tracks, yet they might have left fresh tire marks. Golf carts could plow through the dense bushes couldn't they? I don't know........JMO, nothing based on facts.

Yes, hwneyz, I'm also one of those who's read every post on here and on the facebook page. I remember that comment about a rumoured find of Gary in a tree - however I recall the poster said it was a tree in the Valley of the Waters. It upset people, because it was a rumour, and it did end up being incorrect. But, yes, with all the searching on the ground not having turned up any sign of Gary, and with repeated mention by police and searchers of how many cliffs and drop offs there are in the area, I was also beginning to think it could be quite likely he might be perched in a tree somewhere that had caught his fall. On the ledge off Sweet Dreams, where he was eventually found, it was later clarified in reports that he wasn't found in a tree as so much as a fallen branch on that ledge or slot.

As for the loss of scent and how Gary might have made it down to the Point other than getting in a car... I've never been on a golf course, is it the case that these 'modes of transport' would be lying around, available for anyone to come along and help themselves??

 

[hwneyz]

Yes, hwneyz, I'm also one of those who's read every post on here and on the facebook page. I remember that comment about a rumoured find of Gary in a tree - however I recall the poster said it was a tree in the Valley of the Waters. It upset people, because it was a rumour, and it did end up being incorrect. But, yes, with all the searching on the ground not having turned up any sign of Gary, and with repeated mention by police and searchers of how many cliffs and drop offs there are in the area, I was also beginning to think it could be quite likely he might be perched in a tree somewhere that had caught his fall. On the ledge off Sweet Dreams, where he was eventually found, it was later clarified in reports that he wasn't found in a tree as so much as a fallen branch on that ledge or slot.

As for the loss of scent and how Gary might have made it down to the Point other than getting in a car... I've never been on a golf course, is it the case that these 'modes of transport' would be lying around, available for anyone to come along and help themselves??

Xantra~~ Thanks for allocating the spot where these rumored people said he might be. I think what i meant was, it was way to premature for someone to say that he was "over a cliff and in a tree" at that given point of time, what was it a day or 2 after he went missing? Where as infact despite where he was actually located at (the name of the spot), he was still found over a cliff......and in a "slot in the cliff" and possibly on part of a tree growing out from one of the cracks in the cliff. So how did these people who rumored this know to say something closest to that affect??? Is it an automatic thought that when someone goes missing, that person is thought of to be over a cliff? IMO maybe they witnessed it say from afar (ex: another lookout that faces Sweet Dreams) or were they actually part of what happened? And that's where it takes me to thinking out loud, that maybe a "worker" maybe even a Golf Club/Segway activity related "worker" would have complete access to such mobilized vehicles after hours to meet up for a drug deal. After all didn't the rumor of where Gary might have been located at start from the employees @ the Fairmont Resort? Again the above said ^^ is all based on my opinions only.

 

[Lexis]

Also as I read on about the search dogs loosing the trace of Gary's scent upon leaving Watkins Rd.,

But did the search dogs lose the trace of Gary's scent upon leaving Watkins Rd?

This was discussed a lot, as far as i remember, around the time that the poster SappireSteel was on the thread, but where did this notion arise, was it from msm or insider info.etc?

ie. Did the search dogs lose the trace of Gary's scent upon leaving Watkins Rd?

 

[SouthAussie]

But did the search dogs lose the trace of Gary's scent upon leaving Watkins Rd?

This was discussed a lot, as far as i remember, around the time that the poster SappireSteel was on the thread, but where did this notion arise, was it from msm or insider info.etc?

ie. Did the search dogs lose the trace of Gary's scent upon leaving Watkins Rd?

I honestly don't remember reading that the dogs picked up any scent at all. I don't believe anything was reported about the dogs, other than they were brought in and used the day after Gary went missing (and maybe for more days after that, but that is unknown too I think).

I think it was an assumption - as in, as Gary was sighted on Watkins Road surely they would have tried to track his scent from there, and as they didn't figure out which direction Gary went in, then the dogs must not have been able to track him from there.

I don't believe it was reported as such anywhere. Just our speculation.

(Hope that makes sense!)

 

[Xantara]

I honestly don't remember reading that the dogs picked up any scent at all. I don't believe anything was reported about the dogs, other than they were brought in and used the day after Gary went missing (and maybe for more days after that, but that is unknown too I think).

I think it was an assumption - as in, as Gary was sighted on Watkins Road surely they would have tried to track his scent from there, and as they didn't figure out which direction Gary went in, then the dogs must not have been able to track him from there.

I don't believe it was reported as such anywhere. Just our speculation.

(Hope that makes sense!)

Yes, all i can remember is that it was mentioned by police that dogs were used but no further information on where they were used, whether they could or could not detect any scent, when they were used, etc. Having said that, i would find it puzzling as to why dogs could not detect any scent. It wasn't raining, it was immediately after Gary went missing, there was a last sighting of him on watkins rd for them to having a launching point... what more is needed??

 

[mumkinton]

Yes, all i can remember is that it was mentioned by police that dogs were used but no further information on where they were used, whether they could or could not detect any scent, when they were used, etc. Having said that, i would find it puzzling as to why dogs could not detect any scent. It wasn't raining, it was immediately after Gary went missing, there was a last sighting of him on watkins rd for them to having a launching point... what more is needed??

I agree, and it got me thinking, what if the sighting on Watkins Road wasn't Gary at all, that would explain why they could not track him. He could have jumped in a car at the resort, it could explain why he did not bother to put his jacket on. As regards to where Gary was found, I have attached a link to a news item which shows the rescue operation, it is very short but you can see that the rock face above the ledge that has been marked in previous posts has a crevice or slot as the pilot described, Gary was found some way down inside that slot caught on a ledge with a tree on it. The photograph showing the winch man on the ledge above would be close to where Gary came off I reckon. It is just left of Sweet Dreams and the ascent for that part of Sweet Dreams is called Whymper as far as I can tell. Unfortunately it is not climbed very often otherwise Gary could have been found earlier possibly. I still cannot get my head around how he got there in the first place. AIMO

http://www.zoomin.tv/site/video.cfm...ce-searching-for-missing-Brit-recover-remains

 

[FigTree]

Interesting, Moya Point ... that tower in Katoomba could have provided some reception on that side of Sublime Point. Reception may have even extended down the cliff face for a little while, depending which directions the tower is focused on and elevation levels.

Does anyone know if Katoomba sits higher in elevation than Sublime Point, or lower in elevation?

That could change things a bit.

Great link .. thanks!

Here is the radius map from the Tower -
Also, there are 2 points on Sublime Road where reception bars are on 1 - and they are down near west street and the end of Sublime Point road on one of the bends. you'd think it would be good reception there on the plateau, but there are little pockets of bad recpeption.

I showed my phone reception in the vid as I was trvelling along, and I was not that far down the slope of the Pool of Siloam Walk (Gordon Falls) when I had no reception at all.
Where Gary was - 30 metres down, I don't think there may have been good reception, though it could have been intermittent.

T=Tower
R=Resort
Sublime Point is the long pinnacle to the left of the resort. Gary was near the end of this on the left side flank.

.

 

[FigTree]

I honestly don't remember reading that the dogs picked up any scent at all. I don't believe anything was reported about the dogs, other than they were brought in and used the day after Gary went missing (and maybe for more days after that, but that is unknown too I think).

I think it was an assumption - as in, as Gary was sighted on Watkins Road surely they would have tried to track his scent from there, and as they didn't figure out which direction Gary went in, then the dogs must not have been able to track him from there.

I don't believe it was reported as such anywhere. Just our speculation.

(Hope that makes sense!)

Yes, the reports about the dogs joining the search were minimal - for example:

Over the past 10 days more than 1000 people have searched, coordinated and supported the efforts to locate and return Gary safely. Helicopters, planes, dogs and 1000 people from NSW police S&R, The SES (State Emergency Services), Paramedics, Rural Fire Service, Bush Walkers, Riot Squad and many others.

Also this report that Blue mountains Police Rescue used the dogs after receiving information on the 18th July - though once more - no specific locations were mentioned:

Source: Overnight (18/7), Police responded to information received which included use of grounder searchers, Police Dog and Polair Helicopter – your notification of bona fide concerns or issues may greatly assist with this search.

 

[FigTree]

Just a clarification I wanted to add - that many of the Main Stream Media were titled or included in their texts 'British Born', or 'Twyford Born' or 'Berkshire Born'...
Gary was born in Germany.

 

[FigTree]

Welcome to the new thread sleuthers
:wagon:
---------------------


Respectfully snipped by me...

It seems to me the inquest (do we know when it is scheduled?) must attempt to address why Gary left the hotel, his movements afterward, and a plausible explanation for why he left the road to enter bushland before his fall.

Source BMG Link
The Coroner will determine the circumstances surrounding Mr Tweddle’s death at a November 22 inquest.

.

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree, and it got me thinking, what if the sighting on Watkins Road wasn't Gary at all, that would explain why they could not track him. He could have jumped in a car at the resort, it could explain why he did not bother to put his jacket on.

RSBM

The admin (Anika?) from the HaveYouSeenGaryTweddle FB page said that it was Gary, when they were responding to comments on their page questioning whether it could have been colleagues looking for Gary that were seen on Watkins Road instead.

I'm not sure how she/they knew that for 'certain' though. Maybe it was an assumption because logic said who else would it be at that time, dressed in those clothes? And more than one car/witness saw him, apparently. Though I'm sure other young men wear very similar clothes, as they are currently in style. (Not sure how many people would be out there in their shirtsleeves in those cold temps though.)

I, too, am totally stumped as to why the dogs didn't pick up Gary's trail and lead rescuers right to his location. Those dogs are GOOD ... it is their job and they are enthusiastic about doing it well and receiving their reward/praise.

There had to have been a vehicle involved IMO. The dog handlers would not have been negligent and not put the dogs through the Watkins Road area surely?

 

[FigTree]

RSBM
I, too, am totally stumped as to why the dogs didn't pick up Gary's trail and lead rescuers right to his location. Those dogs are GOOD ... it is their job and they are enthusiastic about doing it well and receiving their reward/praise.

There had to have been a vehicle involved IMO. The dog handlers would not have been negligent and not put the dogs through the Watkins Road area surely?

I too am baffled about the dogs - still.
I have gone to write at least four times about why I think they weren't employed further in the search and over the duration of the 12 days either - but I have deleted each scenario.
No idea.

 

[Lexis]

RSBM

The admin (Anika?) from the HaveYouSeenGaryTweddle FB page said that it was Gary, when they were responding to comments on their page questioning whether it could have been colleagues looking for Gary that were seen on Watkins Road instead.

I'm not sure how she/they knew that for 'certain' though. Maybe it was an assumption because logic said who else would it be at that time, dressed in those clothes? And more than one car/witness saw him, apparently. Though I'm sure other young men wear very similar clothes, as they are currently in style. (Not sure how many people would be out there in their shirtsleeves in those cold temps though.)

I, too, am totally stumped as to why the dogs didn't pick up Gary's trail and lead rescuers right to his location. Those dogs are GOOD ... it is their job and they are enthusiastic about doing it well and receiving their reward/praise.

There had to have been a vehicle involved IMO. The dog handlers would not have been negligent and not put the dogs through the Watkins Road area surely?

I'm pretty stumped on that too SouthAussie.

One site I was reading said that scent trails disappear if someone goes on a pavement or road. I assume pavements are same as roads for scent trails. Various sites have various views on the conditions under which scent survives.

eg.

"Wind can disperse scent great distances, minimizing a scent trail and making trailing difficult. In a case where a lost person walked down a sidewalk four days prior to a trailing dog starting to search, the trailing dog might very well work by dipping down into the driveways, up to front porches of homes rather than the spot where the person walked on the sidewalk four days before. If there is grass directly next to the sidewalk, then the trailing dog might work on the grass. The chances of any scent remaining directly on the pavement of the sidewalk are slim after a four-day period. But the chance of scent surviving by clinging to the moisture provided on the grass and in the shady areas is very likely. Scent needs moisture to survive which rain provides. Rain does not make scent mysteriously disappear. Rain will not destroy scent, but a heavy downpour on pavement can disperse it, making it difficult to follow a trail. In those cases, the scent will cling in gutters and puddles instead of being dispersed along a consistent path like a sidewalk."

http://www.missingpetpartnership.org/petdetective-scent.php

If it was Gary on Watkins Rd, perhaps the SAR dogs weren't on the job on Watkin's Rd in time to pick up scent and missed it on the grass around Watkins Rd, and also didn't pick up scent fast enough on Sublime Pt Rd if he then walked on that road.

 

[SouthAussie]

Could well be, Lexis. But the dogs were definitely employed in the search the day after Gary went missing. And why on earth wouldn’t they get them right onto Watkins Road, Sublime Point Road and neighbouring streets – given the colleagues account of the phone call.

My fear is that they thought ‘he said he was lost in the bush, so let’s get the dogs right into the bush and see what they can find’ … only they picked the wrong part of the bush for the searches (at least initially, and maybe for all of the searches involving the dogs).

 

[Figment0512]

Cocaine arrest sheds light on Tweddle's fatal end.

A mission to keep the party going turned fatal for Sydney man Gary Tweddle on the night he vanished into Blue Mountains bushland. None of his friends imagined the awful tragedy that would unfold when the much-loved 23-year-old went to buy some cocaine.

Tweddle was attending a work conference when he ran out of the Fairmont Resort at Leura in the early hours of July 16.
Six weeks later, his body was found resting on a cliff ledge following the largest search in Blue Mountains history.

Mystery surrounded the night the Oracle sales representative disappeared but the arrest of an alleged drug dealer partly explains what happened that night.

Police arrested Christopher Thomas Pambos, of Earlwood, two weeks after Tweddle vanished.

<modsnip>

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cocaine-a...s-fatal-end-20130928-2ul59.html#ixzz2gDCpzyBL

 

[FigTree]

Thankyou Figment!! Just processing all this information now - wow!

Partying: Gary Tweddle, left, on a night out. Photo: Supplied

SMH Read More...

Phone records indicate Mr Pambos arranged to drive from Sydney to the Blue Mountains to meet with the British-born computer sales representative on the night he went missing.
Court documents reveal the 26-year-old had planned to sell Tweddle 2.5 grams of cocaine in five small resealable plastic bags.
He tried to meet Tweddle sometime between 10pm on July 15 and 2am on July 16 but the pair lost contact. They never met.

.

 

[Mountain Misst]

For a dealer to travel up to the Blue Mountains to meet with a customer would indicate a well established relationship. Gary Tweddle's arrangement with his regular dealer to buy "...2.5 grams of cocaine in five small resealable plastic bags..." In the eyes of the law this would put him in jail for 5 years.

Buying for your friends is treated as drug-dealing in Australia.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

The amazing thing is that he was granted bail. :banghead: