GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #3

[queenieandpearl]

Just a thought - if they are restricting certain info in Victoria for fear of prejudicing the trial any widespread public movement calling to reform sentencing in vic might be better launched when everything is done and dusted. Lobbying in other states though would be ok?

 

[Keentoknow]

I generally agree with this post. Further the place of Psychology in the Court system is another which needs to be reviewed. If the system continues to deny that some among us cannot be rehabilitated, it will continue to release human beings who do harm to other human beings. Abduction, rape and murder is a violent, brutal crime - totally unacceptable.

If everyone knew who was released from prison each day nobody would sleep at night.
You watch some of them walk out the prison gates and say to yourself, "Who is the next victim?" Seems to be a cycle.
Law and order is upside down sometimes.
Maybe the criteria for parole should be reviewed as well.

 

[Fuskier]

Here is an interesting article in The Canberra Times today:
7:55AM Saturday Sep 29, 2012 www.canberratimes.com.au

Police feared more killings,
John Silvester
Crime reporter, The Age

Police suspected Jill Meagher's killer might strike again and acted quickly, writes John Silvester.
Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/nat...re-killings-20120928-26qql.html#ixzz27nvxaLDA

 

[Walk A Mile]

In the Geelong Advertiser article it said he was 30 years old, so it was 11 years ago - making it 2001. Remembering back to then, the internet was pretty sparse. All I did on the internet in those days was look at baby names (I was pregnant) and search for new recipes to try.

Befpre then, I remember paying to use the microfiche at university to look up news articles of interest.

The internet was more than baby names and recipes in 2001. I used to participate in a Websleuths style group on Usenet, and I assure you were weren't scanning articles from newspapers to share.

 

[GutFeeling!]

The internet was more than baby names and recipes in 2001. I used to participate in a Websleuths style group on Usenet, and I assure you were weren't scanning articles from newspapers to share.

May depend on the newspaper. The local paper here is on microfische from day one, but there are no 2001 stories online, goes back to 2005 and then lots are missing.

 

[DrWatson]

Slightly longer version of John Silvester's story, from "The Age":

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/meet-me-at-the-pub-20120928-26r4d.html

In particular:

There was some debate over whether to make the footage public. Police knew the man would surely be identified once it was released but if Ms Meagher were still alive the consequences would be disastrous.

and

A telling consideration was that as his face was not shown clearly, the release of the footage could not be seen to bias a jury if the hoodie suspect was ultimately charged.

 

[truthound]

Slightly longer version of John Silvester's story, from "The Age":

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/meet-me-at-the-pub-20120928-26r4d.html

In particular:



and

Excellent article. I've a lot of respect for Silvester. He mentioned last week a link between the AB and the location if JM's body, of some significance.

I'm sure the significance will be divulged in time, along with other facets of this case. By no means is the investigation complete.


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[truthound]

I understand the feeling more vulnerable but being Aussie to the bone I believe more than that chivalry will make a huge come back. Just watch the men that start to look out for ladies. That Aussie way will be more evident than ever.


Reclaiming the Night - what a wonderful idea!

I've been looking for the details of this year's march and can't find it. Usually the last Thursday or Friday in October, I think.


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[J-Diggety]

I've been looking for the details of this year's march and can't find it. Usually the last Thursday or Friday in October, I think.


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Last Friday in October

 

[Love Coco]

I believe they can do so here in USA as well...try to claim the confession was given under duress or illegally obtained, etc...and if the confession is found to be no good, the fact that the suspect led LE to the body would also be invalid for trial...

Eek... then ergo wouldn't the discovery of Jill's body be out too, meaning that prosecutors would have to prove they would have found the location independent of his help, for there to be proof of actual murder and rape? Is that even possible? Sorry my legal knowledge extends as far as Law & Order! Hopefully won't ever get to this crazy possibility.

 

[DrWatson]

I can only presume that a "Not Guilty" plea would be on the grounds of an accidental death or similar, so pleading not guilty to the murder. I doubt he could plead not guilty to the rape, especially if they have DNA etc.

But Alioop is the expert in this area, not me. She may be around in a while.

 

[cluciano63]

Eek... then ergo wouldn't the discovery of Jill's body be out too, meaning that prosecutors would have to prove they would have found the location independent of his help, for there to be proof of actual murder and rape? Is that even possible? Sorry my legal knowledge extends as far as Law & Order! Hopefully won't ever get to this crazy possibility.

I can't think of a case where it has gotten to this point, i.e. suspect leads police to body and then pleads not guilty and a trial ensues. But I don't know if they would even be allowed to mention that the body was found, if in fact the confession that led to it being found was deemed illegal.

I just hate that the option of pleading not guilty even exists once they confess, as long as the evidence matches the confession. Obviously wackos who confess to anything would not apply as they would not know the details, be seen on video, be traced by phone, etc...but if all evidence shows this person did it and he confesses, he should not be allowed a trial, just a sentencing, in my opinion.

 

[Love Coco]

Hmm. I've had no sleep at all...so this may just be referring to technicalities, but this concerns me in regards to the off the record details.

https://mobile.twitter.com/hamishfitz
@annamori I think the charge sheet will allege more than is out already. They're now allegations remember though.
11:06am - 28 Sep 12

 

[knowledgethirsty]

Lots of information about this morning. :tyou:.

RIP Jill.

 

[truthound]

Hmm. I've had no sleep at all...so this may just be referring to technicalities, but this concerns me in regards to the off the record details.

https://mobile.twitter.com/hamishfitz
@annamori I think the charge sheet will allege more than is out already. They're now allegations remember though.
11:06am - 28 Sep 12

I think the police are on top of it all. A charge is a technical requirement to detain the accused. It doesn't mean that the investigation is over, or that other charges won't be laid.

I hope you get some sleep tonight, Love Coco. The fact that this case has made so many of us sad and angry is a testament to a humanitarian force that is far greater than forces that act in opposite interests.

And I believe that humanitarian force will prevail.


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[Blue Bottle]

I could be wrong, slap me if I'm wrong, but to what I understand, he'd be better off pleading Guilty in those circumstances.

Something to do about admitting to the crime could land him a slightly lesser sentence as opposited to if he pleaded Not Guilty and then was subsequently found to be Guilty.

Pleading Not Guilty and then being found Guilty, but still insisting that you are Not Guilty at Parole Time can also affect the possibilty of getting an early parole release.

Ouch.... I know that sounds messy, but that's the general gist.

 

[cluciano63]

I could be wrong, slap me if I'm wrong, but to what I understand, he'd be better off pleading Guilty in those circumstances.

Something to do about admitting to the crime could land him a slightly lesser sentence as opposited to if he pleaded Not Guilty and then was subsequently found to be Guilty.

Pleading Not Guilty and then being found Guilty, but still insisting that you are Not Guilty at Parole Time can also affect the possibilty of getting an early parole release.

Ouch.... I know that sounds messy, but that's the general gist.

If it is true that life without parole exists over there in some cases, there could be no case more applicable. And at least the judge will know his complete history. Someone already made a mistake, in my opinion, in letting him roam free.

 

[truthound]

Who is Anita Cobby?

An Australian nurse abducted, tortured, raped and murdered by a group of men in the mid 1980’s.
Harrowing crime.
Murder of Anita Cobby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edit: maybe that should read "men"

 

[Blue Bottle]

I can only presume that a "Not Guilty" plea would be on the grounds of an accidental death or similar, so pleading not guilty to the murder. I doubt he could plead not guilty to the rape, especially if they have DNA etc.

But Alioop is the expert in this area, not me. She may be around in a while.

Yep, alioop sure is the one to ask.

But to my understanding, he has a choice to plead as he likes regardless of any evidence. As horrid as it sounds and some people are arseholey enough to do it, he could claim that she wasn't raped but was willing. But he would first be advised by his solicitor or lawyer which way to best go about it as in which way would benefit him the most.

Once the police work is over and all evidence collected then it all moves on to the legal system which I reckon is a world and a law all on it's own.

 

[Blue Bottle]

If it is true that life without parole exists over there in some cases, there could be no case more applicable. And at least the judge will know his complete history. Someone already made a mistake, in my opinion, in letting him roam free.

Life without parole in Australia doesn't necessarily mean for the rest of his natural life. A Life sentence of 25 years or 35 years means 25 years or 35 years.

Keeping in mind laws are always changing and within the next 35 years some laws could change and become retrospective (backdated) and thus could apply to all cases irrespective of when the person was sentenced.