GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #4

[DrWatson]

I'm still curious how he knew Jill would turn down Hope St, because in the footage we see him stride past the boutique toward Hope St as though he has just spotted Jill, then returns returning slowly and approaching Jill.

How did he know to approach her just before she got to Hope St? How did he know her route wouldn't continue along the busy well-lit Sydney Rd?

Maybe he DIDN'T know she was headed down Hope St? Maybe HE was just patrolling up and down Sydney Rd looking for a likely victim. And then when he found Jill, he could have spun her the yarn about somebody following her, especially since he apparently came up from behind her himself (according to the police description of the OTHER CCTV showing him "running after her".) And that may be when she told him that she lived "just around the corner"....

Now that we know from this morning's MSM that she was raped and killed down the laneway - we can assume that it was that first one on the left in Hope St I think - then it doesn't really matter where his car was parked - it didn't happen in there.

The thing I wonder about though is why he didn't take his car from wherever it WAS parked and put Jill in it, and then head out to pick up the shovel en route to the burial site. Why did he leave Jill there, drive home, and then return to pick her up? Was he afraid of being caught with her in the car initially, but then decided that he had to pick her up and try to get rid of the evidence - i.e. the body - regardless of the risk? And I do wonder if the police have CCTV from the many cameras along Sydney Rd of him driving away to Coburg, then returning to Brunswick, then back out along Sydney Rd again....

Puzzling sequence of events.

 

[Mystique75]

I wouldn't want a body in the boot if I knew I'd have to open the boot at home to load the shovel in. Gives me chills. How coldly calculated that would be!

 

[Angeline]

Yes, that's also possible. Maybe it's tragically coincidental that she had to turn down that street I think it was Ovens Rd which is the laneway before Lux Way. I.e the horribly creepy laneway where her bag was found. I thought he may have had that laneway in mind for the attack all along.

Now that we know she was strangled, I think about that article where the woman said she was threatened near the same spot (the nunchucks story).

http://www.smh.com.au/national/it-could-have-been-me-20120929-26skp.html

 

[DrWatson]

Yes, that's also possible. Maybe it's tragically coincidental that she had to turn down that street I think it was Ovens Rd which is the laneway before Lux Way. I.e the horribly creepy laneway where her bag was found. I thought he may have had that laneway in mind for the attack all along.

Now that we know she was strangled, I think about that article where the woman said she was threatened near the same spot (the nunchucks story).

http://www.smh.com.au/national/it-could-have-been-me-20120929-26skp.html

The laneway is actually before Ovens St - it's about half way between Sydney Rd and Ovens St, and it's narrow. It actually leads through to Ovens St if you turn right down the laneway, but there is waste ground beyond that turn, as well as the waste plot with the skips etc on which fronts onto Ovens St.

I suspect Jill was grabbed, maybe knocked unconscious, and dragged down that narrow laneway into the dark area beyond the right-angled turn towards Ovens St. (which has a connection to the next building running over the top of the laneway). You can see it quite clearly on Google Maps. And that narrow laneway is where Jill's bag was found, just a few metres in off Hope St, beside the white car, which is seen on various version of Google Maps and Nearmap - presumably a car that parks there regularly.

Hopefully the image will post OK, which shows the laneway, the turn in the lane that leads to Ovens St, and the arrow pointing beyond (south) of that to the waste ground which would be very dark at night.

 

[Angeline]

Ah, thanks for that. I had been looking at the very basic Google maps ("whereis" style) without the photographic detail. It's much clearer now.

 

[J-Diggety]

J you know there is always full discolsure to husband and family....

Absolutely, and thats where it needs to stay.

 

[bearbear]

as well as picking up the shovel, he could have driven home afterwards to grab a tarpaulin to wrap jills body in, probably thinking there was less chance of her dna being found in his car if she was wrapped, or maybe as part of an alibi if someone else was home and could say he was there?

 

[bearbear]

I'm still curious how he knew Jill would turn down Hope St, because in the footage we see him stride past the boutique toward Hope St as though he has just spotted Jill, then returns slowly and approaches her.

How did he know to approach her just before she got to Hope St? How did he know her route wouldn't continue along the busy well-lit Sydney Rd?

he may have been watching her and waiting for a chance for weeks to grab her. its a scary thought but killers often scope out their prey, its part of their sick game.

 

[Sage1]

Hi all. I'm a newbie here. I've been lurking for a while trying to make sense of of it all. It is a little late, sorry, but I have some information regarding the nurse that I've not seen mentioned on the threads. First, may I offer my deepest sympathy to Tom and Jill's family. Even though I am a New Zealander, living in NZ, this horrific crime against an innocent young woman has touched a raw nerve with me as I lived in London when Deborah Linsley was murdered in 1988, and Rachel Nickell in 1992 .

About that information ....On Thursday 4th October the nurse was interviewed on a current affairs t.v. show (Campbell Live, TV3). In an earlier thread some posters queried what the nurse had meant by the gesturing of the gloved hands. The gesture was a kind of pounding together of the hands, palms facing, and then with the hands gripped together he was motioning as though grinding something between the palms, then flexing the fingers slowly outward beginning with the little fingers of each hand he would then begin the whole sequence again.

The nurse also said that

a) she believed he meant the threats because he didn't swear.

b) she would not have been able to do as the Police had suggested and phone them the next time it happened because he was standing too close to her and was much larger than her.

c) when this man was kicking and punching the air, the kicks and punches came far too close to her. Sorry if this is repeated.

I also noted that some posters wondered if there could have been nunchucks visible in the cctv footage. In particular they were referring to bit where he walks south toward Jill. When he first appears there seems to be something black in his right hand but then it seems to vanish as he raises his arm. I have two theories. The first is that black shadows could be from his rings. The second theory begins with recalling the woman who alleged it was the same man who tried to stop her while she was cycling on Sydney Rd. She believed that in the cctv footage it looked as though he had a gun in his left pocket as he walks north the first time. It's also possible that it's not a gun but nunchucks. Perhaps he went north to arrange the nunchucks up his right sleeve out of view of others and such that they were at the ready? Then, as he walked along he was able to let the nunchucks fall below the sleeve and into his hand and could readily flick them back up the sleeve. That would explain the seeming to shuffle around and find something on his person that he seems to do just prior to his arm extending toward Jill, resulting in her surprised response.

Finally, I wondered if anyone had noticed that on Google Streetview you can see that there is a Karate Centre in Oven Street? I wonder if it is still there?

 

[perthite]

Nunchucks do fit with the cause of death, and as weapons go are quite useful for that purpose. Not trying to be graphic here but if you consider that compared with using something like a rear naked choke, you have complete control of the person and there movement as well as limiting there ability to breathe and therefore call out.

 

[Sage1]

Nunchucks do fit with the cause of death, and as weapons go are quite useful for that purpose. Not trying to be graphic here but if you consider that compared with using something like a rear naked choke, you have complete control of the person and there movement as well as limiting there ability to breathe and therefore call out.

Thank you Perthite. That makes sense to me now. I have only seen them being whirled about and that's terrifying.

 

[Sage1]

My apologies but I meant to have added that I thought at the time that "it could have been me or someone I knew" in the cases of Deborah Linsley and Rachel Nickell.

 

[oz_sleuth]

http://www.news.com.au/national/jil...-of-police-probe/story-fndo4eg9-1226494761037

So he straggled her, accoring to this new article.

Man this makes me more angrier than any other scenarios cos it means she was in with a chance of fishging him off and escapoing as it is now almost 100% certain that he had no weapon.

This is just.... wow. So angry right now.

And he left her there, went home and came back to collect her body? Sick *advertiser censored*, I wish someone has seen her unconscious in the laneway in that time frame, perhaps she could have been revived.


And who the hell was the ;public official' that tipped AB off? What a DISGRACE. He should be named and shamed and sentenced to lif in prison for that. Unbelievable.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

From the same article - different source.

Prosecutors will also allege her killer then left the scene and returned later to dispose of her body in Gisborne South.

As part of routine procedure, Mr Bayley's DNA is being cross-referenced with samples taken from numerous sexual assault victims across the state.
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...be/story-e6frfmq9-1226494761037#ixzz298lfuRlX

About bloody time!

 

[aust amateur slueth]

Thanks Dr. Watson
Here's a link from the Herald Sun
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...-of-police-probe/story-e6frf7kx-1226494761037

Police considered a review into whether the tip-off by the public official, which had the potential to obstruct the investigation, amounted to a serious breach. But after inquiries they decided not to take the matter further.

The Herald Sun believes a telephone intercept caught the official telling Mr Bayley there was "a serious investigation" being conducted into his activities.

We have a right to know who the Public Official is and there should be an Enquiry. Why did the Police decide not to take the matter further? <modsnip> and a Public Official tipped him off. You bet there should be an enquiry, and the Public Official should be stood down on the spot. This is so wrong on so many levels. :furious: You are so right Dr. Watson, there is much to consider in the article, that's for sure.

the public official should be charged with obstructing an investigation and sacked from their position immediately.

 

[theblackwatch]

It makes me (even more) sad for Jill that she was left down that alleyway in the middle of the cold, dark night whilst AB calmly and methodically went about organising the means to hide her body

This news about the public official warning phone call has totally floored me and makes me wonder if there may be others out there who are also "protected species" (on both sides of the law). Somehow I suspect this is just the first of a whole series of revelations both directly and indirectly linked to this case......

 

[perthite]

As someone previously mentioned, that public servant surely has to be his PO? Why he would make that call, Zeus only knows.

 

[FruitTingles]

Thank you all for your kind messages on the passing of my Father. I appreciate it! I am deeply shocked and haven't spent any time on here until now. I was a fair way behind in the thread and am also shocked to see that they have released how Jill was killed. And then about how AB was alledgedly "tipped off" Wow, that makes me so incredibly angry!

 

[Angeline]

It makes me (even more) sad for Jill that she was left down that alleyway in the middle of the cold, dark night whilst AB calmly and methodically went about organising the means to hide her body

Especially knowing that Tom was just metres away worrying about her and then searching for her not long after

The public official tipoff has left me completely baffled. Why would anyone do something so stupid? Was it done to benefit AB, or the police (to make him act suspiciously?) Is any of this linked to the "off-the-record" media briefing? I can't think how it would be, but it's all very strange. The mind boggles.

 

[FruitTingles]

This case just grows more and more baffling to me each day.