GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #5

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Paulie11 said:
I don't see why Bayley would be denying 2 of the 3 rape charges if all 3 charges were iron-clad. He is denying the murder charge because he can claim he is a rapist, though not a murderer- the murder happened as he was trying to shut her up from screaming, though in 'shutting her up', he can claim, he applied too much pressure and she passed out and never regained consciousness; so it was some form of negligent homicide, lacking in intent to kill. How are you going to refute that? You simply cannot- it is possible; though i guess the question boils down to what is reasonable; that is, what is probably to have transpired at the time, something we can discern from past behaviour patterns (that go to character), which is where previous history of offending (if any) comes in. If you ask me, it is not clear to me at all that- at the outset- he intended to kill her, though he definitely intended to rape her. I think it began as a rape and somehow morphed into a murder after she communicated to him somehow that she has seen his face 'out there on sydney road' and can now identify him, which is precisely the prosecution's case. So at that point, the intent to kill her was formulated. This is most probably what happened. It is still possible, however, that he tried to keep her quiet, but in doing so accidentally killed her. I am not sure which happened. I think it is kind of irrelevant which it actually was as he should not ever be released, and the rest is mere semantics- important, though ultimately indecipherable.
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I did not question WHY he would plead guilty to rape and not murder.. I understand the way it works in that sense as you have stated. I was merely pointing out.. he has admitted to Murdering her(sorry 'killing' her) and was able to take Police to where she was buried(meaning he had that knowledge).. but he is now denying he killed her. Given that, what I was saying is you seem intent to think the Police are making up that he raped her 3 times, because he is denying 2 times and only admitting to once. Yet he admitted to killing her, though is now denying.. so whats to say he is not telling the truth in only admitting to 1 count of rape.. I do not know the innerworkings of such a persons mind. So I don't see why he wouldn't deny it for whatever reason to suit his purpose.. Why are you so intent on believing the Police may be making it up is my question. Plenty of guilty persons have denied involvement in a crime, despite evidence to the contrary.
 
Fuskier said:
If the white car was a hatch back Astra, then while he was getting Jill's body out of the boot to bury it, the hatch could have fallen down and hit him on the bridge of the nose IMO.
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Could these Astra's be that old? I mean that the hatch gas would no longer work? My brother drives one he is visiting on sat .... I will run some tests!
I truly believe Jill got him, I have no doubt she put up a fight.
 
So AB says. The police have claimed she was dragged down the lane. I highly doubt after telling him to go away she then followed him down a lane.
 
UnfoldingTruth said:
I did not question WHY he would plead guilty to rape and not murder.. I understand the way it works in that sense as you have stated. I was merely pointing out.. he has admitted to Murdering her(sorry 'killing' her) and was able to take Police to where she was buried(meaning he had that knowledge).. but he is now denying he killed her. Given that, what I was saying is you seem intent to think the Police are making up that he raped her 3 times, because he is denying 2 times and only admitting to once. Yet he admitted to killing her, though is now denying.. so whats to say he is not telling the truth in only admitting to 1 count of rape.. I do not know the innerworkings of such a persons mind. So I don't see why he wouldn't deny it for whatever reason to suit his purpose.. Why are you so intent on believing the Police may be making it up is my question. Plenty of guilty persons have denied involvement in a crime, despite evidence to the contrary.
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He has admitted he is responsible for his death. He is not pleading guilty to the legal charge of murder, this does not mean he is now recanting on his admission. It is legal manoeuvring. Maybe the lawyer is hopeful he can get a lesser charge for the act of killing her. I doubt it'll be successful but that is their job.
 
porge said:
Is it possible the white astra wasn't his? In the below they discuss picking up his girlfriend and his car the next day, one from Kensington, don't think it said where the other one was.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...rief-of-evidence/story-fnat79vb-1226595956235

You know what else? He was out drinking for so long, I bet he was over the limit when he went and got his car and drove it back to Brunswick too!
:banghead:

This is a good article on how the police tracked him down, the phone did play a large part
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...-amid-new-cctv/story-fnat79vb- 1226596495389
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I think AB cleaned his car (white astra) and was going to put it in girlfriends name that week.
 
Scoobysnack said:
I think AB cleaned his car (white astra) and was going to put it in girlfriends name that week.
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But what's strange is it reported him and his gf picked up his and her cars on Saturday (presumably after a night of drinking) but AB would have had his car to drive back from the country on Friday night?Unless there are 3 cars?

Or potentially, after burying Jill he left his car again somewhere to pick up the next day?
You would think she would have known that he came home to get his car (and shovel) earlier in the night though before burying Jill. Ahh so many unanswered questions.

Another one - The media repeatedly mentions that she was buried 'fully clothed on her left hand side' but then other news outlets reported that the clothes she was wearing that night were found in his house...

Maybe I just feel that I need closure, but I just want all the answers!! Anyone else feel that way?
 
Porge, with the clothes issue looks to me like she had a few things on when buried :( but most of them ended up at AB's house.

Mr Bayley then returned to the laneway and placed Ms Meagher's body in the boot of the car and drove out to Gisborne South before digging a hole about 127cm in length, 60cm wide and 35cm deep.

Mr Bayley then allegedly buried Ms Meagher's body with her torn stockings and torn bra.

When police later searched Mr Bayley's Coburg home they allegedly found clothing Ms Meagher had been wearing on the night, the shovel he had used to bury her and a broken Vodaphone simcard registered to Ms Meagher at the ABC.

http://www.standard.net.au/story/1361032/new-photos-released-in-jill-meagher-rape-case/?cs=12
 
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...ew-amid-new-cctv/story-fnat79vb-1226596495389

There you go ... nobody informed on him (or if someone did he was already identified).

From the article, the police traced Jill's phone which was still active at 4.24am when she was moved (consistent with her husband's assertion that it was still ringing out until it went offline around 6am) and identified that the movements of the phone matched the Citylink toll road.

Citylink photographs EVERY vehicle at toll points so it would have been easy to narrow down to dozens or hundreds at most around 4.30am ... Looks like they checked the owners of those vehicles, pulled their phone records of each and matched the movement to Adrian Bayley.

It was originally alluded to that the phone was key in identifying him - although I assumed he took the phone back to his Coburg house.

Very strange (but fortunate) that he discarded the handbag but keep the phone.

Although one would suspect the CCTV footage and/or the de facto would have identified him fairly quickly anyway.
 
mister2 said:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...ew-amid-new-cctv/story-fnat79vb-1226596495389

There you go ... nobody informed on him (or if someone did he was already identified).

From the article, the police traced Jill's phone which was still active at 4.24am when she was moved (consistent with her husband's assertion that it was still ringing out until it went offline around 6am) and identified that the movements of the phone matched the Citylink toll road.

Citylink photographs EVERY vehicle at toll points so it would have been easy to narrow down to dozens or hundreds at most around 4.30am ... Looks like they checked the owners of those vehicles, pulled their phone records of each and matched the movement to Adrian Bayley.

It was originally alluded to that the phone was key in identifying him - although I assumed he took the phone back to his Coburg house.

Very strange (but fortunate) that he discarded the handbag but keep the phone.

Although one would suspect the CCTV footage and/or the de facto would have identified him fairly quickly anyway.
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I almost wish though that they kept the means of tracking him a secret... I'd hate to think that future criminals might learn a thing or two from his mistake with technology.
 
mister2 said:
Although one would suspect the CCTV footage and/or the de facto would have identified him fairly quickly anyway.
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His girlfriend would have identified him from the publicly released footage in a second. I wonder what happened between them. It's acknowledged they spoke about the case, so i wonder what the conversation between Bayley and his g/f was when the blue hoodie footage was released. Awkward silence? It's creepy stuff.


I wonder if the guy that gave him a lift when bayley ran of out petrol recognised bayley in the blue hoodie cctv footage.
 
Paulie11 said:
His girlfriend would have identified him from the publicly released footage in a second. I wonder what happened between them. It's acknowledged they spoke about the case, so i wonder what the conversation between Bayley and his g/f was when the blue hoodie footage was released. Awkward silence? It's creepy stuff.


I wonder if the guy that gave him a lift when bayley ran of out petrol recognised bayley in the blue hoodie cctv footage.
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I've wondered about this too - it would be the most chilling, heart stopping, jaw dropping, stomach physically sickening moment for her and if it was me, I would have run a mile. I hope she wasn't with him at the time.
 
Alli1982 said:
I've wondered about this too - it would be the most chilling, heart stopping, jaw dropping, stomach physically sickening moment for her and if it was me, I would have run a mile. I hope she wasn't with him at the time.
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In one of the MSN articles today it noted that she was shown the footage whilst he was at work by the police and identified him. He was arrested at the same time. I'll see if I can dig up the article..
 
Very good work, Sleuthilicious. i hadn't seen that article.

I'm still puzzled, however, as to what the g/f thought of the blue hoodie cctv footage before the cops approached her. wasn't it released tuesday morning? the cops approached her wednesday at work- so she must have seen it at some point during tuesday. she must have known it was him. that tuesday night would have been the longest night of her life.
so she identified him wednesday, though they arrested him on thursday arvo. so did she spend wednesday night with him too?
i think she works at night, so they must have approached her wednesday night some time. though that still leaves her to get home thursday morning, after night shift, until the arvo when they arrested him thurs after lunch. there are a few gaps here.
 
Scoobysnack said:
Also Jill's phone.... AB said he smashed it, this would have been after he buried her?
I think I read somewhere that a mobile carrier had something to do with the investigation, they traced Jill's phone.
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Spot on about the carrier, Scoobysnack ...
"The data for the mobile phones of the accused (Bayley) and deceased (Ms Meagher) mirrored each other, moving from the Brunswick area, along CityLink and Calder Freeway to the Sunbury area," a police document said.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...an-ernest-bayley/story-fnat79vb-1226596495389
 
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