Australia - JS, 32 y.o. man, charged w/ murder of 9 y.o. girl , Mt Wilson, 13 January 2022 #2

[Awakening]

Even a very tiny dose would cause significant sedation. It is actually prescribed (not sure if it’s off label?) for sleep difficulties. I have a teen with developmental disabilities and severe sleep disturbance issues and am very familiar with this medication. The doses used for management of schizophrenia are really high (300+mg) but the dosage to induce sleep is tiny (12.5-25mg, sometimes even less). In a child who was young and didn’t have a tolerance to this medication even a very small dose would make her very sleepy (and the sleepiness can carry over to the next day). From my understanding it would be out of her system within 48hrs at most- probably 18hrs if not a big dose. My experience is that the effects of a small dose last up to 12hrs (but maybe traces are still in the system).

Yes I take it on and off for sleep disturb. The lowest dosage tablet you can get is 25mg and it’s a tiny tablet so makes cutting it in halves or quarters difficult but that’s often all I need and it’s very sedating for me as an adult.

When I was in psych wards it was typical for schizophrenics to be on minimum 300mg or more and I was always astounded that they would still be walking talking and even quite manic on such a high dose.

Edited to add: I was on it consistently for a few years but now only use it occasionally as it’s very difficult to wake up from. No matter how many hours you’ve slept for, it feels like you are coming out of a deep sleep. It’s really unpleasant. A coffee or two and 30 to 60 minutes later and most of the drowsiness has gone, but it wasn’t conducive to getting kids to school.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I can't bear the idea that this child had been drugged and was suffering and vomiting and may well have been aware she'd been drugged as she must have surely known about all things substance misuse because of her mother? Also as has been said, to what end was she drugged

 

[Justoneoftheguests]

I can't bear the idea that this child had been drugged and was suffering and vomiting and may well have been aware she'd been drugged as she must have surely known about all things substance misuse because of her mother? Also as has been said, to what end was she drugged

I don’t think the medication would have made her vomit (it sounds like it was trace amounts so a small dose- vomiting is not a usual side effect). She could be given it without being aware and would just think she was very sleepy. It doesn’t cause disorientation etc, just sleepiness.

I’m hoping (because it’s the better of some bad alternatives) that she was given the medication so she would go to sleep because he was sick of her being awake/sick etc. The alternative reasons for sedating he are not something I want to think about in light of his history.

 

[SouthAussie]

I don’t think the medication would have made her vomit (it sounds like it was trace amounts so a small dose- vomiting is not a usual side effect). She could be given it without being aware and would just think she was very sleepy. It doesn’t cause disorientation etc, just sleepiness.

I'm not seeing how it would have been a small dose. For Stein it was schizophrenia medication, not sleeping medication, so it sounds as if he would have been taking 300mg at minimum. (From what I have read)

I am not imagining him lovingly cutting up his medication, crushing a small sliver of it, and mixing it in with Charlise's portion of the delicious chicken dinner that he was cooking. (Not when he later allegedly shot Charlise in the back and in the face. Killed her.)

I don't think this mastermind would have any idea on how much medication he should give Charlise to make her sleepy.
Considering he later allegedly shot her to death, I doubt he would have cared if she overdosed on his medication.

imo

 

[SouthAussie]

"His lawyer says his client has longstanding mental health issues that requires high dosages of medications."

"Post-mortem examination to determine the cause and “purpose” of Charlise’s death is expected to take roughly a week, police say.

January 21, 2022

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/how-the-charlise-mutten-tragedy-unfolded/news-story/25fa472953531f40845e28400caf9e31

 

[nao]

Moo..if you are medication, you usually Google. Society may call them medication...but they are drugs ..mind altering drugs.

 

[katydid23]

This article from news.com gives a good timeline as alleged by police.

This bit about her being unwell appears to me to be related to the discovery of traces of schizophrenia medication in Charlise's body:

The officer asks when the last time Ms Mutten saw her daughter. Ms Mutten, still crying, said “two nights ago”.

She was here (the Mount Wilson property) … I wasn’t here, my partner was here and during the morning she was really … she was sort of sick, lethargic, and I was two-and-a-half hours away,” Ms Mutten said.

“Justin and the lady that came over to do the auction for his mum … he asked if she could mind her while he went and got me because he didn’t want her in the car because she’d been throwing up.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/timeline-of-events-cops-claim-led-to-alleged-murder-of-schoolgirl-charlise-mutten/news-story/0e812ac5188c9ec297117730c33c1545

Ok so, your 'partner' tells you that your little girl is sick and throwing up too much to ride in the car. So he left the sick child home with an employee of his mother---as a mom, what do you do next?

I'm calling that babysitter as I head to the home, to check on my child. How did the mom get convinced not to go care for her sick child but left her in a stranger's care?

 

[katydid23]

Charlise Mutten was shot in the face at point blank range, murder trial told, as grisly new details are revealed of the 'charming, chatty and affectionate' young girl's last moments​

“Schoolgirl Charlise Mutten was shot in the face by a gun held just a foot away from her, a forensic examiner has told the trial of her stepdad accused of her murder.

Forensic pathologist Dr Marna Du Plessis conducted the post mortem on Charlise's body after it was found in the sand-filled barrel with her pink Nike slides.

She said possible 'powder tattooing' marks around the gunshot wound on the girl's face led her to believe 'the end of the muzzle... was about a ruler's length' away.

Despite being in 'an advanced state of decomposition', Dr Du Plessis said Charlise had been 'shot in the right side of her face, with the bullet entering her brain'.

Dr Du Plessis said this was the fatal shot, and that she was still alive when it was fired as another shot to Charlise's back above her left hip would not have killed her.

The victim's autopsy revealed that she had an amount of the anti-psychotic drug Quetiapine, which was the same medication Stein took for his schizophrenia.”

Charlise Mutten shot directly in the face with gun only a foot away

Nine-year-old Charlise Mutten was fatally shot in the face by a gun held about a foot or 30cm from her, a forensic examiner has told the murder trial of her accused former stepfather, Justin Stein.

www.dailymail.co.uk

There is NO WAY that her mother shot her in the face point blank. As incompetent as Diane was as a mom, I don't believe she ever wanted to kill her like that.

 

[Justoneoftheguests]

There is NO WAY that her mother shot her in the face point blank. As incompetent as Diane was as a mom, I don't believe she ever wanted to kill her like that.

They both appear to have significant drug addiction problems, ice is mentioned in relation to the mother from previously linked articles. Who knows what either of them would do in a drug fuelled situation where clearly neither of them were making logical/rational decisions that would in any way make sense to most parents.

FWIW I think he shot her but I think the mother should also be charged with some form of neglect at the very least (MOO etc etc).

 

[SouthAussie]

There is NO WAY that her mother shot her in the face point blank. As incompetent as Diane was as a mom, I don't believe she ever wanted to kill her like that.

I tend to agree with you. That she wouldn't have shot her daughter in the face.

I have been reading Small Sacrifices (by Ann Rule) where Diane Downs wanted her three children dead.
Diane was another incompetent mother, by choice.

So she shot them at very close range while they were sleeping in a dark car. Christie was shot twice in the chest, Cheryl was shot twice in the back, and 3-year old Danny was shot in the back. Not one head shot among them.

imo

In prison, Elizabeth Diane Downs' imagination runs free

CLAUDIA HOWELL/THE OREGONIANElizabeth Diane Downs is led in handcuffs into the Lane County Courthouse in 1984 on the first day of her trial on accusations that she shot her three children, one fatally. It's been nearly 25 years since the...

www.oregonlive.com

 

[discostu]

Ok so, your 'partner' tells you that your little girl is sick and throwing up too much to ride in the car. So he left the sick child home with an employee of his mother---as a mom, what do you do next?

I'm calling that babysitter as I head to the home, to check on my child. How did the mom get convinced not to go care for her sick child but left her in a stranger's care?

It sounds like she did try calling the house on the way back but I suspect a combination of JS not seeming concerned, a preoccupation with getting their hands on some drugs, and not being accustomed to being a full time parent probably explains a lot.

I said earlier in the week that I believe KM loved her daughter deeply but I also think that love didn’t look like we would normally expect in a healthy mother-child relationship. I think she was very used to not having to take responsibility for CM so in a lot of ways the relationship probably resembled more of a big sister-kid sister dynamic. More like fun besties, less like a typical parent who would generally always have their child’s safety top of mind and who would be making a beeline back to a sick child.

 

[iamshadow21]

Interesting that there was no DNA on the muzzle of the gun. I know it was meant to be a close range shot to the face. Obviously not close enough for blowback, or I'd expect Charlise's DNA on the muzzle, from her blood.

MOO

 

[JLZ]

It sounds like she did try calling the house on the way back but I suspect a combination of JS not seeming concerned, a preoccupation with getting their hands on some drugs, and not being accustomed to being a full time parent probably explains a lot.

Did she? I was speculating that it didn't have a landline.

 

[katydid23]

They both appear to have significant drug addiction problems, ice is mentioned in relation to the mother from previously linked articles. Who knows what either of them would do in a drug fuelled situation where clearly neither of them were making logical/rational decisions that would in any way make sense to most parents.

FWIW I think he shot her but I think the mother should also be charged with some form of neglect at the very least (MOO etc etc).

Oh, I agree. She has been criminally neglectful, IMO. And she has put her own desire for drugs ahead of her child's safety. She is told her daughter is too sick to ride in the car and is being watched over by a total stranger, and she goes out and gets high with her boyfriend instead of going to check on her girl. That's irrational and neglectful and selfish behaviour.

But I still don't believe she shot her child in the face at point blank range. That sounds much more like something her angry, jealous, violent psychopathic convicted felon boyfriend would do. IMO

 

[Marg944]

Ok so, your 'partner' tells you that your little girl is sick and throwing up too much to ride in the car. So he left the sick child home with an employee of his mother---as a mom, what do you do next?

I'm calling that babysitter as I head to the home, to check on my child. How did the mom get convinced not to go care for her sick child but left her in a stranger's care?

Drugs and sex was a bigger calling to the mother… rather than hurrying up to soothe your ailing little daughter that you hardly ever get to see….

 

[Kemug]

Kallista no way would win the "Mother of the Year" medal, but I don't believe she shot her daughter.

 

[katydid23]

Please don't be too quick to criticise the grandparents. They clearly loved her and gave her a normal, happy, stable childhood away from her mother. It's extremely difficult for people in that position to balance the need to protect the child from harm with the pressure to allow some contact with her mother. It's possible Charlise herself wanted a holiday with her mother. It's also possible they felt that allowing her Kallista some contact with Charlise might placate her enough to prevent her from trying to win sole custody when/if she got clean.

I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for the grandparents to make that decision. They'll spend the rest of their lives wishing they'd made a different one - they certainly don't need the public pointing out that it was an error of judgment.

The grandparents deserve our compassion, not our censure. Save that for people who deserve it.

I totally agree. It is a fine line a grandparent needs to walk sometimes. Especially once a child turns 11 or 12, and really wants to see their bio parent.

I am sure KM was very good at manipulation, and convincing her parents that the sky was blue as opposed to stormy and grey. The grandparents are the ultimate victims here and deserve our love and support. They will never get over this horror, imo.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

There is NO WAY that her mother shot her in the face point blank. As incompetent as Diane was as a mom, I don't believe she ever wanted to kill her like that.

Diane? The mother's name is Kallista

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

They both appear to have significant drug addiction problems, ice is mentioned in relation to the mother from previously linked articles. Who knows what either of them would do in a drug fuelled situation where clearly neither of them were making logical/rational decisions that would in any way make sense to most parents.

FWIW I think he shot her but I think the mother should also be charged with some form of neglect at the very least (MOO etc etc).

JMO but I think LE are keeping KM 'sweet' in order to use her as their key witness against JS. They've probably figured out the forensic evidence is weak / confusing / inconclusive and they need her testimony in order to convict him.

Otherwise she should be facing charges IMO too.

 

[SouthAussie]

"Police who recovered the remains of nine-year-old Charlise Mutten were confronted with a scene so horrific some were expected to need time off work and to seek counselling.

A police source told Daily Mail Australia that officers who attended the scene were horrified by what they encountered when the contents of the barrel were revealed.

'There will be people that won't be coming back to work for a while,' the source said.

A NSW Police spokeswoman said any affected officers would be reminded of the extensive psychological services available to them but could not provide further comment."

21 January 2022

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10421119/Cops-Charlise-Muttens-body-inside-barrel-traumatised-return-work.html