Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #10

[Cads]

Something happened in that house that he is with holding.

I keep going back to his initial statement. He said she went upstairs, came down and then went out to clear her head.

He tells us she went upstairs, he doesn't say why, and then came back down. In the greater scheme of things, this is extraneous information. Yet, he finds it important to put it in his statement, why?
What did she go upstairs (if she did) for?. This is where there is missing information.
Did something happen on the stairs? While upstairs or after she came down.

Again, telling us she went up and downstairs is needless, but important to him.

This is what I think too - why offer up that info - going up stairs.... He didn't say - open the door to leave - cause that is an action - just like going up the stairs is an action.
He specifically mentions stairs - I feel this is because stairs plays a part.

 

[Estelle]

Your comments remind me of statement analysis.

http://www.statementanalysis.com/analyzer/

http://www.precisionintelligenceconsulting.com/analyzed-statement.html

 

[CalliopeGG]

This is what I think too - why offer up that info - going up stairs.... He didn't say - open the door to leave - cause that is an action - just like going up the stairs is an action.
He specifically mentions stairs - I feel this is because stairs plays a part.

If the crime occurred there, don't you think there would be a forensic trail, or evidence of a clean up?

 

[CalliopeGG]

:thinking: When the police take a statement from someone part of the questioning can go like this:

Q Then what did she do?
A She went upstairs.

Q What did she go upstairs for, did she say?
A No, she just went upstairs. I'm not sure what she did up there.

Q Then what happened?
A She came downstairs and said she was going out to clear her head.

I honestly don't think BR just offered the upstairs/downstairs information. He answered the questions put forth to him by police when making the statement is all. MOO

You seem to have an understanding of how a police interview would be conducted Undiscovered. Wouldn't they ask why she went upstairs also? I'm thinking she may have gone upstairs simply to prepare to go out. I don't think the crime occurred in the house.

 

[Estelle]

If the crime occurred there, don't you think there would be a forensic trail, or evidence of a clean up?

So we do not know where the murder occurred. They would have done forensics on the house and car. Did they find nothing? Could she have been murdered where the body was found?

 

[CalliopeGG]

So we do not know where the murder occurred. They would have done forensics on the house and car. Did they find nothing? Could she have been murdered where the body was found?

I think I remember reading the house was totally clean.

 

[CalliopeGG]

IMO this was a planned or mixed crime for the following reasons:

No evidence of a crime or a clean up at the house.

The body wasn't easily recovered, allowing enough time for forensic evidence to decay.

Possibility of more than one person involved in disposing of the body.

BR had a cover story when caught in a lie about using the Mercedes the next day.


http://mindhuntersinc.com/organized-vs-disorganized-slayings/

 

[JC40]

I'm not saying a crime was committed on the stairs, upstairs or as she was coming down. (although it may have)
It may have been where an argument (alleged) ensued for what reason, i don't know.
She runs upstairs, still arguing (possibly threatening to leave him and to pack some clothes) and this is where we have, imo, the missing information?

 

[CalliopeGG]

I'm not saying a crime was committed on the stairs, upstairs or as she was coming down. (although it may have)
It may have been where an argument (alleged) ensued for what reason, i don't know.
She runs upstairs, still arguing (possibly threatening to leave him and to pack some clothes) and this is where we have, imo, the missing information?

Quite possible. That scenario makes sense to me. If she was packing her bags that could have made him snap for sure. All hypothetical of course.

 

[Oona]

Borce's statement during the first (only?) appeal to the media:

"You know without the knowing, ahh, is the hardest part.

We had a ahh b ahh bit of ahh an argument ahh in regards to, um, the store figures, and um, how she was going to you know improve them, and, she had had a bad day the day before at the store, um, and on the Wednesday morning, um, she just went upstairs, um, and then came downstairs and just went out through the garage, ahh, she might have just walked down the street or just to clear her head because that was the last thing she said to me, um, I’m gonna to go and clear my head, um, can’t do it here.

Just give us a call or give the police a call or y y you know give anyone a call ah just to know you know that you’re safe um, d doesn’t matter what, how you know just get a message back to us."


The upstairs/ downstairs detail does seem extraneous to me too.

 

[Oona]

I found a video with a couple of snippets of audio from Sarah Ristevski's 3AW interview. I remember a few sleuthers were trying to track the "went ballistic" statement down for a while.



It is in the first video at this link:

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/07/14/07/54/police-ramp-up-search-for-missing-vic-mum

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'm not saying a crime was committed on the stairs, upstairs or as she was coming down. (although it may have)
It may have been where an argument (alleged) ensued for what reason, i don't know.
She runs upstairs, still arguing (possibly threatening to leave him and to pack some clothes) and this is where we have, imo, the missing information?

Borce's statement during the first (only?) appeal to the media:

"You know without the knowing, ahh, is the hardest part.

We had a ahh b ahh bit of ahh an argument ahh in regards to, um, the store figures, and um, how she was going to you know improve them, and, she had had a bad day the day before at the store, um, and on the Wednesday morning, um, she just went upstairs, um, and then came downstairs and just went out through the garage, ahh, she might have just walked down the street or just to clear her head because that was the last thing she said to me, um, I’m gonna to go and clear my head, um, can’t do it here.

Just give us a call or give the police a call or y y you know give anyone a call ah just to know you know that you’re safe um, d doesn’t matter what, how you know just get a message back to us."


The upstairs/ downstairs detail does seem extraneous to me too.

Thanks for Borce's statement Oona. From Estelle's link on statement analysis, the 'you know without the knowing', is the hardest part.(They expect you take for granted what they are saying is the truth. The problem is we do not know.)

The rest of the statement reads like BR was a spectator, watching and not participating, which is most likely far from the truth. They had a bit of argument (probably an understatement), Karen was going to improve the store figures,(making it HER fault), the upstairs/downstairs part is implying Karen did something up there, ( pack a bag/handbag/purse/changed clothes....) and then she went through the garage and might have walked down the street, if he was watching doesn't he know for sure?!! Imo, the argument is the only truth. She might have been killed on the bed and the bed spread was disposed of leaving no clues. Only his daughter would notice if there is change in the bedroom.
Just a theory.
A trial I'm currently following the accused's statement, he is also the spectator.

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm not saying a crime was committed on the stairs, upstairs or as she was coming down. (although it may have)
It may have been where an argument (alleged) ensued for what reason, i don't know.
She runs upstairs, still arguing (possibly threatening to leave him and to pack some clothes) and this is where we have, imo, the missing information?

Thanks for Borce's statement Oona. From Estelle's link on statement analysis, the 'you know without the knowing', is the hardest part.(They expect you take for granted what they are saying is the truth. The problem is we do not know.)

The rest of the statement reads like BR was a spectator, watching and not participating, which is most likely far from the truth. They had a bit of argument (probably an understatement), Karen was going to improve the store figures,(making it HER fault), the upstairs/downstairs part is implying Karen did something up there, ( pack a bag/handbag/purse/changed clothes....) and then she went through the garage and might have walked down the street, if he was watching doesn't he know for sure?!! Imo, the argument is the only truth. She might have been killed on the bed and the bed spread was disposed of leaving no clues. Only his daughter would notice if there is change in the bedroom.
Just a theory.
A trial I'm currently following the accused's statement, he is also the spectator.

Couldn't agree with you both (and Estelle's statement analysis link) more. I have always thought that the upstairs part played a significant role in what happened.

Borce is trying to disassociate from that event. Disassociate from whatever that 'upstairs' part played. It was significant enough to mention it, but then it was skimmed over.

 

[CalliopeGG]

A good liar (and I think he is) will tell the truth as much as they can so they can remember their story. Here he seems to be lying by omission IMO. Also in a situation where there is potential domestic violence, the most dangerous time for the victim is when they threaten or prepare to leave.

 

[JC40]

Ninety percent of deception is by withheld information. Word by word, sentence by sentence, paragraph by paragraph in a statement can be 100% true. It's what's left out, omitted, (if any) is what wee seek.

 

[SouthAussie]

A good liar (and I think he is) will tell the truth as much as they can so they can remember their story. Here he seems to be lying by omission IMO. Also in a situation where there is potential domestic violence, the most dangerous time for the victim is when they threaten or prepare to leave.

Yep. And there was absolutely no need to mention the upstairs part to the reporters. The police need that kind of detail. The journos don't.

 

[Armchair snoop]

So we do not know where the murder occurred. They would have done forensics on the house and car. Did they find nothing? Could she have been murdered where the body was found?

If they had found forensic evidence in the house and the car I have no doubt that they would have called him in for another interview with his lawyer present. My feeling is that they do not have enough evidence at the moment to sustain a charge. I would assume that the evidence they do have has gone to the DPP and they have said 'No' we need more.

 

[Armchair snoop]

Just a thought bubble, could the murder have occurred closer to where the body was found. Both phones were pinged not to far from each other however we don't know the time of the pings. Did he follow her when she left the house? Was he angry that she had decided to leave him? Did they pull over and the argument continued and become violent? Did he seek assistance from another party to help dispose of the body and drive the other car back? Why haven't they released the cause of death? Have they established they cause of death?

No doubt someone in that family knows something but hasn't got the guts to stand up and say something. Makes me wonder how that family felt about KR if they are not willing to pull out all stops to find justice for her. Sad, very sad.

 

[CalliopeGG]

Just a thought bubble, could the murder have occurred closer to where the body was found. Both phones were pinged not to far from each other however we don't know the time of the pings. Did he follow her when she left the house? Was he angry that she had decided to leave him? Did they pull over and the argument continued and become violent? Did he seek assistance from another party to help dispose of the body and drive the other car back? Why haven't they released the cause of death? Have they established they cause of death?

No doubt someone in that family knows something but hasn't got the guts to stand up and say something. Makes me wonder how that family felt about KR if they are not willing to pull out all stops to find justice for her. Sad, very sad.

That's what I think may have happened Armchair. He either incapacitated her at the house and killed her somewhere else, or he took off after her in the car and the murder occurred after that. I believe the body was too decomposed to establish COD. All conjecture on my part.

 

[Oona]

If Karen had been strangled or suffocated at home what sort of forensic evidence would there be to find in the home?
If Karen had been murdered elsewhere what did the killer do with her body while they went to get the shovel from home?
I wonder if the distinctive gold Coach handbag was ever recovered.