GUILTY Australia - Kiesha Weippeart, 6, Mount Druitt, NSW, 18 July 2010 - #2

[Crosby87]

I think once someone is charged they are then given lawyer through legal aid for formal interviews and and trials, but it is unlikely they would have prior to being charged.

JMO :beagle::detective:

In a missing child's case in Florida, the father refused to go in to be interviewed by LE after his daughter disappeared and he immediately hired a lawyer. Don't know if the lawyers worked pro bono, but in this case the father collected a large amount of money through donations from the public and the mother started a Foundation and hired her own PI.
The family sold t-shirts with the child's face, name and contact information on it and had fund-raising events. The mother came under fire for not reporting the money she received.

<snipped>

KIM PICAZIO: Well I&#8217;ll tell you, that when I was on this case, and I had said this on the News many a times, that Ronald was refusing to go into Law Enforcement, he wouldn&#8217;t go in to cooperate with regard to his child, he would not go in, and neither would Misty, so he had lawyered up very early, even before we even knew publicly that there were criminal lawyers involved. There were, and we were getting lots of frustrating comments etc by Law Enforcement because if no one talks in Florida and in all of the States, you cannot just bring someone in by the hair, and force them to undergo interrogation, it is not how it works in the Unites States. So, unless they had something to charge him with, they could not bring him in and force him to talk; and he didn&#8217;t, which was very telling to everybody watching this case. Why isn&#8217;t this guy helping find his child? Why isn&#8217;t he helping?

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[Crosby87]

UNTIL Police charge Robert Smith in Kiesha&#8217;s disappearance, he can refuse to be interviewed by them, but Police are not respecting his constitutional rights. I think he needs a lawyer now because of what's been going on.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-qu...ead-us-to-her-body-claims-20100806-11l5r.html

<snipped>

Police quiet on Kiesha's stepfather's 'lead us to her body' claims

Police are refusing to confirm reports today that they told the stepfather of missing girl Kiesha Abrahams to take them to her body.

Robert Smith told News Ltd that detectives "got tough" with him during an interview on Wednesday night, with police asking him to "take them to the body".

A state crime command spokesman refused to discuss the developments when contacted this morning.

"We are not making any comment at all on that," he said. Stepdad says police think he killed Kiesha.

Updated Fri Aug 6, 2010 6:57am AEST

Robert Smith says detectives have identified him as a suspect in Kiesha's disappearance. (AAP: Dean Lewins, file photo)

The stepfather of missing six-year-old Kiesha Abrahams says police have asked him where he dumped her body.
Robert Smith told The Daily Telegraph that police "absolutely ... think I did it".
He said detectives "got tough" with him on Wednesday night and demanded he show them where her body was.
"They said, 'Lead us to her body' and that sort of thing. It was pretty tough," he said.
Mr Smith denied killing Kiesha, saying he loved her as if she was his own daughter.
Kiesha was reported missing on Sunday, but has reportedly not been seen by anyone outside her immediate family for a month.
She was reported missing from her Mount Druitt home by her mother, Kristi Abrahams, who said she found the door to their unit unlocked and the child gone.
Ms Abrahams told police she last saw her daughter when she put her to bed on Saturday night.

 

[butwhatif?]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...-for-kieshas-mum/story-e6frf7l6-1225909120801

<snipped>

When Mr Smith was first interviewed by police just days after the child disappeared, he said detectives had his bank records and grilled him over a number of transactions.

"They had my bank statements there and they were saying to me, 'What's this for, and what's that for?'," Mr Smith said at the time.

Does what was written in this article confirm Police questioned Robert about the cash deposits during an interview at the police station and not at their house? There is no indication how Police obtained his bank records.

NO. This still doesn't explain how the police got their hands on the bank statements, but when you look at the fact that the media reported paperwork/vac/comp were taken in this time frame, as well as the snip you quoted by Rob saying it was in the first few days that they were hounding him about the money, it looks like they got it either through the p/work or pc that were seized from the unit.
Especially since we have a pic of them at the unit with police that day, and knowing they were hauled off for questioning later that same day. (article below)

I haven't come across (and don't recall) any statement by police yet as to how it was obtained. But if I find it, I'll post it.

On a side note it's odd that in the article you linked they have a photo of Kristi and the caption reads: "Payments made to Kristi Abrahams's bank account forms part of police investigation into Kiesha's disappearance."

...why don't they mention Robs account, or 'Rob and Kristis' acc? I wish we could trust what the media is printing....sooooo frustrating!

It doesn't make much sense that they would be hounding Rob about the money if it was deposited into Kristis acc.....unless the deposits themselves were known to have been made by Rob....and they want to know how he managed to get his hands on that much money. :waitasec:

 

[Crosby87]

NO. This still doesn't explain how the police got their hands on the bank statements, but when you look at the fact that the media reported paperwork/vac/comp were taken in this time frame, as well as the snip you quoted by Rob saying it was in the first few days that they were hounding him about the money, it looks like they got it either through the p/work or pc that were seized from the unit.
Especially since we have a pic of them at the unit with police that day, and knowing they were hauled off for questioning later that same day. (article below)

I haven't come across (and don't recall) any statement by police yet as to how it was obtained. But if I find it, I'll post it.

On a side note it's odd that in the article you linked they have a photo of Kristi and the caption reads: "Payments made to Kristi Abrahams's bank account forms part of police investigation into Kiesha's disappearance."

...why don't they mention Robs account, or 'Rob and Kristis' acc? I wish we could trust what the media is printing....sooooo frustrating!

It doesn't make much sense that they would be hounding Rob about the money if it was deposited into Kristis acc.....unless the deposits themselves were known to have been made by Rob....and they want to know how he managed to get his hands on that much money. :waitasec:

K&R have a joint bank account. If Police question Robert and Kristi separately about the bank deposits, they can tell if they are lying. AFAWK, Robert didn&#8217;t tell Police where the money came from.

Robert and Kristi need a lawyer because the Police are trying to cut corners and they don&#8217;t care if they violate R&K&#8217;s constitutional rights. Obviously Police do not have the evidence they need to charge Robert or Kristi with murder or they would. Clearly the Police manipulated Robert into violating his constitutional rights when they hauled him in for an &#8220;interview&#8221; and accused him of murdering Kiesha and hiding her body. After that incident occurred, Robert & Kristi had the right to refuse to do any more interviews with Police. That&#8217;s not an interview, that&#8217;s an interrogation, and Robert and Kristi are innocent until proven guilty.

That&#8217;s why Police wouldn&#8217;t talk when they were asked if it was true they came down hard on Robert and accused him of murdering Kiesha and hiding her body. If K&R had a lawyer, he would advise his clients and explain to them what their rights are. IF Police obtained R&K&#8217;s bank records illegally, their lawyer could check into it and file a complaint against them on behalf of his clients and forbid his clients&#8217; to give anymore interviews with Police. Perhaps the Police did obtain their bank records illegally and that&#8217;s why they won&#8217;t say how they how they obtained them. We have never heard the Police obtained a search warrant for the apartment and I have a feeling they intruded on their rights the day they went into their apartment with them.

 

[butwhatif?]

New interview with kristi from todays mt druitt/st marys standard:

snips~

`Please bring her back to me'

&#8220;I just want to say thank you for your support and all the nice things that they&#8217;ve put down (at the shrine at Woodstock Ave),&#8221; Ms Abrahams said.
&#8220;It&#8217;s nice to know that people do care out there.&#8221;
The pair acknowledged the Hebersham West City Tigers under-12 rugby league team for dedicating their grand final to Kiesha.

Inside their new home, the family has built their own personal shrine dedicated to their beloved Kiesha.
Framed pictures of the little girl, candles, pink and purple toys from the public shrine and Kiesha&#8217;s favourite toys are laid out in the living room.

An emotional Ms Abrahams also responded to various rumors about her in the media and on Facebook.

&#8220;People don&#8217;t see me behind closed doors,&#8221; she said of those who accuse her of being a bad mother.
&#8220;It&#8217;s people who don&#8217;t have the guts to say it face-to-face.
&#8220;I&#8217;m sick of all the lies and the bull***t that&#8217;s out there.&#8221;


Mr Smith said: &#8220;They can&#8217;t judge us - how can you judge someone when you don&#8217;t know a single thing about them? It&#8217;s just wrong.

Ms Abrahams said: &#8220;I don&#8217;t know what to think. I don&#8217;t know what to say ... I don&#8217;t know what happened.&#8221;
She said she would like to attend a public service for Kiesha, like the candlelight vigil held last week, but she would feel vulnerable and exposed.
&#8220;We don&#8217;t know what kind of people are out there. I&#8217;d love to go,&#8221; Ms Abrahams said before breaking down in tears.
&#8220;If anyone does know anything, please bring her back.&#8221;

BIt more at link
http://mt-druitt-standard.whereilive.com.au/news/story/please-bring-her-back-to-me/


So much to say about these statements again...but don't have the energy or focus right now.
.....except if Kristi wanted to let us know what kind of mum she really was behind closed doors to prove she did love and nurture Kiesha, she's had ample opportunity to do so....but has chosen not to.

Maybe there's vidoetape of happy familly days together. Maybe theres' an innnocent explanation for Kieshas lack of attendence at school...And even the bite mark....But if there is then why not shout it from the roof-tops??

I wouldn't give a damn if I got charged for publicly discussing a confidential case- I'd rather set the record straight.
If everything out there is lies and ,as she so eloquently puts it, why not come out of hiding and tell all?
Media would be falling all over themselves if Kristi said she wanted to do an interview and "tell all". NOt even about Kieshas disappearance, but the life they llived leading up to it.

&#8220;I don&#8217;t know what to think. I don&#8217;t know what to say ... I don&#8217;t know what happened.&#8221;

-By Kristy


^This has some significance ,imo- not sure how yet...must ponder....

&#8220;It&#8217;s people who don&#8217;t have the guts to say it face-to-face.

- Kristi again.

Is she picking a school yard fight? And how are people supposed to say it to her face when she's in hiding? :doh:

And the bit about how Kristi would feel vunerable and exposed going to a vigil? Wonder just how vunerable Kiesha felt her entire life?

ETA: LOL- guess I did have the energy to post some thoughts on the article.

ALL JMO

ETA 2: Here are the two pics that ran with the article:

 

[butwhatif?]

http://mt-druitt-standard.whereilive.com.au/news/story/please-bring-her-back-to-me/

THE mother of missing Mt Druitt girl Kiesha Abrahams has revealed that Kiesha’s sister is bewildered by her absence and cries out for her older sibling.

Ms Abrahams said Bxxx 2, is too young to comprehend why Kiesha is no longer around to play with her and their new baby brother Lxxx.

“What do you say to a two-year-old?” Ms Abrahams asked.
“She will call Kiesha’s name and when you ask her what she said, she will then just walk away.”

BBM-The bolded snippet doesn't sit right with me at all....It makes me feel sick actually...

ETA: WHOA! I don't think folks who have left things at the shrine for Kiesha will be too happy about this snippet:
Re: K&R's own shrine for kiesha:

Framed pictures of the little girl, candles, pink and purple toys from the public shrine and Kiesha’s favourite toys are laid out in the living room.

There's gonna be A lOT of anger over this...mark my words. It won't be pretty.

 

[Crosby87]

On September 20th I contacted a psychic and here is her response. Unfortunately Chris doesn't say who administered the blow to her head. I think if anyone hit Kiesha's head with a shovel or spade their intention was to kill her and if it happened in her home, there might not be any blood. The fact she mentioned a spade suggests Kiesha was alive when she was taken into a wooded area and the person killed her there. I contacted Chris again to request a second reading.

Dear Christine,

I am writing to request a reading on a child named Kiesha Abrahams who was reported missing by her mother on Sunday morning, August 1st, 2010. I don&#8217;t know how much information you need to do a reading, but her date of birth is April 22, 2004 and she was living in Mt. Druitt, Australia when she disappeared. Thank you.

Bluesky#1
Posted by xxxxxxx on 20 September 2010

Hello can you please email me a photo is possible and I will see what I get.

Posted by christine on 23 September 2010

I just studied her photo and imediatley felt a sharp blow to my head I feel the back of my head with a heavy instrument like a hammer or spade I dont know yet if she is still with us but as I am typing this I feel head pain. And I feel sick I dont feel she is to far from her home ? 22nd september 2010 1.40 pm

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Some good news....it seems that not everybody who was in close contact with Kiesha is letting her down.

A person by the name of Alison Anderson has been posting on the PKA FB page, and people are saying how great it is that she is finally standing up for keisha....someone also mentioned something about her being at the vigil.

Since I posted the last lot of pics from the kiesha vigil, more have been put up.
And it looks to me like this is the same Alison Andersan who staunchly defended K & R in the beginning. The same one that Mrs G believed had a different demeaner in her last presser. (which I missed myself).

So here's some media pics of Alison Anderson

Now the picture that I think looks like Alison from the vigil:

I really do hope she has 'seen the light' and that her involvement is because of a genuine love of kiesha and wanting to see justice done.

That's great news....I was hoping as much last time I saw her. Big huge fan of Alison A.

 

[alj65]

Framed pictures of the little girl, candles, pink and purple toys from the public shrine and Kiesha&#8217;s favourite toys are laid out in the living room.

They took toys from the shrine the public made for Kiesha? The shrine for their daughter that they haven't bothered to visit? What the...?

 

[butwhatif?]

K&R have a joint bank account. If Police question Robert and Kristi separately about the bank deposits, they can tell if they are lying. AFAWK, Robert didn’t tell Police where the money came from.

Robert and Kristi need a lawyer because the Police are trying to cut corners and they don’t care if they violate R&K’s constitutional rights. Obviously Police do not have the evidence they need to charge Robert or Kristi with murder or they would. Clearly the Police manipulated Robert into violating his constitutional rights when they hauled him in for an “interview” and accused him of murdering Kiesha and hiding her body. After that incident occurred, Robert & Kristi had the right to refuse to do any more interviews with Police. That’s not an interview, that’s an interrogation, and Robert and Kristi are innocent until proven guilty.

That’s why Police wouldn’t talk when they were asked if it was true they came down hard on Robert and accused him of murdering Kiesha and hiding her body. If K&R had a lawyer, he would advise his clients and explain to them what their rights are. IF Police obtained R&K’s bank records illegally, their lawyer could check into it and file a complaint against them on behalf of his clients and forbid his clients’ to give anymore interviews with Police. Perhaps the Police did obtain their bank records illegally and that’s why they won’t say how they how they obtained them. We have never heard the Police obtained a search warrant for the apartment and I have a feeling they intruded on their rights the day they went into their apartment with them.

We don't know that anyones constitutional rights were violated. We don't know that the police didn't say "now here's the door- notice it's unlocked and you are free to leave whenever you choose to ,as you are not under arrest".

Besides, the article of when they were both taken off for questioning clearly states the police said that they were NOT under arrrest.

Plenty of people are brought in for interviews to establish timelines, alibis etc, without any arrests being made. (sorry to go OT, but look at how many of KC's friends and family were brought in for questioning by LE)


And we also don't don't if Rob embellished the story of his interview, since none of the others who were interviewed said they were treated the same way.
And there's no evidence IMO, that points to any records/evidence being obtained illegally. K&R could have either voluntarily supplied the items of interest when they were sighted by police or it may have been in plain sight when they went to the unit, and they went ahead and got a search warrant that day. Just because the police didn't announce a search warrant, doesn't mean they didn't have one. (This aint Florida LOL.)

The other point is that they chose to go in for follow-up interviews after the one where Rob said he was being told he'd get some councelling if he just told where kieshas body was.

They didn't appear to have any representation with them for the last lot of interviews, and we can't blame the police for that if they choose not to bring a lawyer with them.
And I just don't think the police would take such a huge risk with a case they want to be solved with no legal loopholes at trial....regardless of who the defendent/s may be once they reach that stage.

But I agree that K & R should get themselves some legal representation....and fast. But maybe they think that by retaining a lawyer it will make them look guiltier....who knows?

ALL JMO

 

[Crosby87]

We don't know that anyones constitutional rights were violated. We don't know that the police didn't say "now here's the door- notice it's unlocked and you are free to leave whenever you choose to ,as you are not under arrest".

Besides, the article of when they were both taken off for questioning clearly states the police said that they were NOT under arrrest.

Plenty of people are brought in for interviews to establish timelines, alibis etc, without any arrests being made. (sorry to go OT, but look at how many of KC's friends and family were brought in for questioning by LE)


And we also don't don't if Rob embellished the story of his interview, since none of the others who were interviewed said they were treated the same way.
And there's no evidence IMO, that points to any records/evidence being obtained illegally. K&R could have either voluntarily supplied the items of interest when they were sighted by police or it may have been in plain sight when they went to the unit, and they went ahead and got a search warrant that day. Just because the police didn't announce a search warrant, doesn't mean they didn't have one. (This aint Florida LOL.)

The other point is that they chose to go in for follow-up interviews after the one where Rob said he was being told he'd get some councelling if he just told where kieshas body was.

They didn't appear to have any representation with them for the last lot of interviews, and we can't blame the police for that if they choose not to bring a lawyer with them.
And I just don't think the police would take such a huge risk with a case they want to be solved with no legal loopholes at trial....regardless of who the defendent/s may be once they reach that stage.

But I agree that K & R should get themselves some legal representation....and fast. But maybe they think that by retaining a lawyer it will make them look guiltier....who knows?

ALL JMO

I am not arguing with you. I will not be following this case. All the Best.

 

[butwhatif?]

Ms Abrahams said: “I don’t know what to think. I don’t know what to say ... I don’t know what happened.”

I thought first it was cats, then a childless couple, now she doesn't know?

But it almost feels like she slipped up here. Like whatever happened to Kiesha really may have been an accident, and she still can't wrap her head around it, and what followed.


But then I do tend to read too much into things sometimes.

I'm also curious as to why the photographer didn't snap a shot of their shrine at home for kiesha.
At first I thought it might have been requested by K & R that they not take a pic because of the cultural respect shown to a person who has died, but since Kristi is convinced Kiesha is still alive, that doesn't fit.

So why not take the picture that would show the public that kiesha is still in their hearts and is remembered and thought of fondly by the shrine in their home?

JMO

 

[butwhatif?]

On a light note, can I just say how much I love this pic of Inspector Oxford?

Remind anyone else of superman? He's our very own crime-fighting superhero.

ETA: There will be another public search for Kiesha this Sunday...doesn't look like many people are attending yet, but apparently they've called all the media outlets to let them know. So if any WS locals want to attend, here are the details.....

Where: meeting at mc donalds - Arndell Park
When: Sunday, October 10 from 10:30 am to 4:00 pm

 

[butwhatif?]

One more thing before I sign out for the day....There's heaps (over 800) pics on seeking the losts photobucket page. It includes lots of pics I haven't seen before, as well as snapshots from articles, where we might find some of the deleted/edited material by media.

http://s750.photobucket.com/home/Seeking_The_Lost?sort=ascending

 

[MsFacetious]

They took toys from the shrine the public made for Kiesha? The shrine for their daughter that they haven't bothered to visit? What the...?

How did they take the toys if they didn't visit it?? :waitasec:

This sounds like what other families have done.

In cases where the child is dead, they give the toys to homeless shelters or something. (Caylee, Destiny, Ethan....)

In cases where the child is believed to be alive they take the toys home for the child to have when they come home. (Kyron...)

So actually...them taking some toys from Kiesha's public Wall of Hope and putting them in the house.... would appear to mean they believe she is alive.

OR they have thought really deeply about this and realized that if they get some toys from there and bring them home it will make it look like they think she is alive.

I don't know if they are capable of that complicated of a thought process to give that impression...if they can't figure out that flipping off the media is a bad idea. :waitasec:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

^ OR they just thought 'Bonus, free toys!' and took them back for B***, I wouldn't put much past these two.

 

[darnudes]

Thinking about Kiesha and thought I would bump the thread.

Also, tonight on the Princess facebook page there was a comment about her last name. Apparently she is listed as Kiesha Weippart on the official missing person file. Don't know if people knew this or not.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Princess-Kiesha-Abrahams/139664226070293

 

[passionflower]

DOES ANYONE THINK THAT eb COPIED catted from this case????
and followed it for Zahra's demise and disappearance???

 

[darnudes]

DOES ANYONE THINK THAT eb COPIED catted from this case????
and followed it for Zahra's demise and disappearance???

It did occur to me. I don't think Kiesha's story made it into the American press but she did go missing in New South Wales (a state of Australia) and AB's parents live in Newcastle, also in NSW, although some distance away. AB's parents may have mentioned it to him. Or he could still follow the papers in NSW on the net - to look up footy scores/car racing etc, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he stumbled upon articles about Kiesha.

 

[jriedlinger]

DOES ANYONE THINK THAT eb COPIED catted from this case????
and followed it for Zahra's demise and disappearance???

I do....!!!!