Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #4

[inkpink]

This is an intriguing case which is just starting to gain some traction due to her daughter's relentless efforts.

Here is the facebook page:

Missing Person Marion Barter

...and a just released podcast 'The Lady Vanishes'

Left Behind | The Lady Vanishes on acast

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Thread #1 - Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997
Thread #2
Thread #3

 

[Darling136]

In order to keep a case active we need a link to a msm or le information.

7 News Sydney

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

Some posts have been removed. Please remember to discuss the case itself rather than personalizing and sniping at other members.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

Just jumping in to bump Tricia's post from earlier this week.

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Thank you,
Tricia

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Do NOT post social media of random people. Unless you are 110% certain it is the correct person, do not bring their information to Websleuths.

If you wish to discuss behind the scenes, you can add up to 20 members to the private conversation.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thread is open again, however ...

We still have not had time to go back through 3 threads to remove all sleuthing about Mr. FR. Members may discuss what is said in MSM about Mr. FR or by him, or what was in "The Lady Vanishes" podcast that was said about him or by him, but members may NOT sleuth this person and post about it on this public thread.

It is a violation of Websleuths Terms of Service to sleuth people who are not officially named by LE as a POI or suspect.

If you wish to sleuth and discuss such an individual in private messaging, you may do so and are able to invite up to 20 others to join you. Just do not post your findings on this public thread.

If you see someone violating this rule, please Report the post and it will be removed. Members must post responsibly. If not, the thread will have to be closed.

Thank you all for your cooperation.

 

[KiwiNZ]

So while we were in lock down I started listenening to the podcast from the beginning....

Marion’s friend was interviewed and mentioned Marion said she wanted to visit Jane Austen’s house which is in Chawton, approx 1 hour from Tunbridge Wells and 1 hour from Brighton where one of her postcards was sent from, so may be she was drawn to that area because of her interests.

I coulnt figure why it seemed so little was done in the early days to locate Marion outside of the police but listening back it seems Sally had some faith in what the police said in reference to her mother not wanting contact, this seemed to be compounded by her extended families belief Marion left of her own accord, seemed to take Sally a few years to question this and find her voice. I do feel for her, either way she deserves an answer.

If Marion could not access her money in the UK, that could have triggered her return to Aus as she ran out of money, I guess a reason not to tell family of your return was having to explain why you couldn’t access the money that was sent for ahead for her trip.

 

[Meligator]

Do we know the last confirmed date that Marion (or Marion imposter) was in Australia? I know bank expressed having contact with her in October, but do we know if she her contact was in-person, Australia or could those October interactions/bank transactions have been done outside of Australia?

 

[Meligator]

Something that has always stuck with me is when Sally & team visit Fernand in Luxembourg, Fernand makes a comment to the effect that if Florabella was in Luxembourg, she would be registered. Maybe I’m misinterpreting, but I’m the context of his other statements (never been to Australia, been with my partner 40 years) the comment about registering comes across as him trying to provide additional evidence that Marion isn’t in Luxembourg (Kinda like saying she’s not here—she’s not even registered). Of course if he doesn’t know anything about her, he wouldn’t know if she is registered or not.

Obviously, he could have just offered the registration comment in an attempt to help them with their investigation— but he doesn’t seem helpful in any other way.

 

[UpAllNight2]

Do we know the last confirmed date that Marion (or Marion imposter) was in Australia? I know bank expressed having contact with her in October, but do we know if she her contact was in-person, Australia or could those October interactions/bank transactions have been done outside of Australia?

From what I can gather the timeline looks like this:

1997
June 22 - Florabella leaves Australia
August 2 - Florabella arrives back in Brisbane, saying she was at the Novotel Brisbane staying for 3 days.
August 13 - Grafton medical appointment
August 30 - postcard from UK received by family
October 22 - Sally reports Marion as missing which is written up as an 'occurance'.

No further activity for either Marion Barter or Florabella Remakel.

 

[UpAllNight2]

I'd like to make a few observations:

I worked at a similar school to TSS. They are toxic work environments. I was mercilessly bullied and so were my co-workers for years. I met people who had worked there years prior to me and they were still very traumatized. My family couldn't relate at all so I found no comfort there. I found it in a co-worker and I would have given up EVERYTHING for him at the time. My sense of self and reality were completely skewed. If he asked me at any point during that period to run off secretly together to start a new life I would have.

The question to me is why was Marion withdrawing the cash from Byron Bay? She couldn't stuff a suitcase with it. She must have been stashing into another account, perhaps in a partner's name. The police might be able to track deposits of $5,000 in cash at other banks in the area.

If the Remakel in Lennox Head was real, there will be a footprint of this person. A clue was given in the podcast that someone remembers that name from a payroll. He'll therefore have a bank account, superannuation and an ATO record.

All we are left with is the coronial inquest, which I hope will happen soon.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I'd like to make a few observations:

I worked at a similar school to TSS. They are toxic work environments. I was mercilessly bullied and so were my co-workers for years. I met people who had worked there years prior to me and they were still very traumatized. My family couldn't relate at all so I found no comfort there. I found it in a co-worker and I would have given up EVERYTHING for him at the time. My sense of self and reality were completely skewed. If he asked me at any point during that period to run off secretly together to start a new life I would have.

The question to me is why was Marion withdrawing the cash from Byron Bay? She couldn't stuff a suitcase with it. She must have been stashing into another account, perhaps in a partner's name. The police might be able to track deposits of $5,000 in cash at other banks in the area.

If the Remakel in Lennox Head was real, there will be a footprint of this person. A clue was given in the podcast that someone remembers that name from a payroll. He'll therefore have a bank account, superannuation and an ATO record.

All we are left with is the coronial inquest, which I hope will happen soon.

I am hoping the current team have made more progress on the case since they took over and have looked at leads and suggestions Sally gave them, listening back over the podcast Gary was asked if the case file was available to Sally in its full form would she be able to find Marion or would it shed light on what happened, he said no. Based on the information he had at hand he didn’t believe he could locate Marion.

I think the one person whom could at least shed some light into Marion’s intentions is the dentist whom the police know who he is, but I don’t think Sally has ever located him. I think the dentist interviewed by the team was not the dentist that signed the change of name, correct me if I am wrong please.

 

[UpAllNight2]

I think the dentist interviewed by the team was not the dentist that signed the change of name, correct me if I am wrong please.

Yes, that is right. It was a different Dentist- he was a parent.

The Police have the power to compel the *other* Dentist who signed Florabella's passport photos to testify, if they are still alive. The Police can get further information from the banks, the doctors and the airlines. In addition, they could get some definitive answers from Mr Remakel in Luxembourg as the police there can interview him under oath and which is a LOT different to just some silly media stunt.

I do know of another inventor who spends half the year in his European home country and then spends the northern winter on the North coast of NSW. So this pattern might be a "thing" with inventors...

The inquest will be very beneficial to Sally as the police will have wider powers to gain some answers. The media attention is great because it will force the Police to do a thorough job this time. They didn't necessarily do a *bad* job last time but they made some assumptions which guided their inquiries.

I note that earlier posts said that she seems to have gone missing of her own volition, because Florabella's behaviour is forced to change when Sally lodges her 'occurance' with the Police (the taking of money out of accounts must cease). It's an interesting take as that is exactly when she - or the person who stole her identity - stopped their activity (at least in Australia).

Another thing I'd like like to add is that I did some work for Red Cross missing persons unit and they said that if they find a person who does not wish their former family to know they are still alive *they have to pretend to the family that the person was not located*. If the Salvos had the same policy then the Wilsons and Sally may not actually know if they located her or not. The fact they said that she was mad about the car money might just be a hint that they DID find her.

 

[UpAllNight2]

Yes, that is right. It was a different Dentist.

The Police have the power to compel that Dentist (who signed Florabella's passport photos) to testify, if they are still alive. The Police can get further information from the banks, the doctors and the airlines. In addition, they could get some definitive answers from Mr Remakel in Luxembourg as the police there can interview him under oath and find out definitively of his movements between 1994 and 1997 -which is a LOT different to just some silly media stunt.

Note that I do know of another inventor (Swiss) who spends half the year in Switzerland and then spends the northern winter on the North coast of NSW. So this pattern might be a "thing"...

So I think going to the inquest will be very beneficial to Sally as the police will have wider powers to gain some answers. The media attention is great because it will force the Police to do a thorough job this time. They didn't necessarily do a *bad* job last time but they made some assumptions which guided their inquiries.

I note that earlier posts said that she seems to have gone missing of her own volition, because Florabella's behaviour is forced to change when Sally lodges her 'occurance' with the Police (the taking of money out of accounts must cease). It's an interesting take as that is exactly when she - or the person who stole her identity - stopped their activity (at least in Australia).

Another thing I'd like like to add is that I did some work for Red Cross missing persons unit and they said that if they find a person who does not wish their former family to know they are still alive *they have to pretend to the family that the person was not located*. If the Salvos had the same policy then the Wilsons and Sally may not actually know if they located her or not. The fact they said that she was mad about the car money might just be a hint that they DID find her.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I am assuming all accounts belonging to Marion where bleed dry and closed otherwise the accounts would be on the unclaimed money’s list.

After the first communication with the bank and police I doubt the bank would have given anymore information on the account activity and the police would not have looked any further into account activity once the bank ID Marion. She could have been removing money after Sally was alerted and from other accounts, without knowing how much she had to begin with who knows how long it would have taken her at $5k per day but I assume she took it all.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Does anyone actually know which dentist signed the likeness photo for Marion/Florabella’s passport photo? The dentist in the podcast (and I would ask you to look him up on the Internet to have a better understanding of this guy) neither confirmed nor denied he signed it. He let the interviewer Alison do the answering for him!!!

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Would a conman use his real name in a lonely hearts advert? In days before the Internet became extensive why would he worry any law enforcement would connect the two especially when it probably wasn’t a plot to ensnare a vulnerable lady back in 1994 when it was published. That chance encounter with Marion probably came later.

 

[UpAllNight2]

Does anyone actually know which dentist signed the likeness photo for Marion/Florabella’s passport photo? The dentist in the podcast (and I would ask you to look him up on the Internet to have a better understanding of this guy) neither confirmed nor denied he signed it. He let the interviewer Alison do the answering for him!!!

My understanding is that the dentist interviewed in the podcast was some random parent of a child in her class. It is one of the weird tangents that the podcast goes on, like the whole irrelevant episode about Hermes FarEasternShining.

The man interviewed is not the dentist who signed the back of her passport photos. Apparently the police know who this person is (as they just asked the passport office). This is information that they did not disclose to Sally but will have to divulge at the forthcoming coronial inquiry. How it is even known that this person is a dentist I am not sure of - maybe she told that much to someone at the time.

 

[UpAllNight2]

Based on the information he had at hand he didn’t believe he could locate Marion.

I think the one person whom could at least shed some light into Marion’s intentions is the dentist whom the police know who he is, but I don’t think Sally has ever located him. I think the dentist interviewed by the team was not the dentist that signed the change of name, correct me if I am wrong please.

 

[UpAllNight2]

The dentist is known by Police but they are not saying who it is right now. That will come out at the inquest.

Gary Sheahan might not be able to locate Marion based on his own file, but now Homicide have it, that situation may have changed. He won't know what information they have. A Homicide detective onto it is light years away from a country station and Missing Persons (who sounded really hopeless to me).