Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

[TootsieFootsie]

" DNA experts in the United States are providing NSW Police with new clues on some of the state's most baffling missing persons cases and unidentified human remains.

The cases include bones from at least two people found in sand dunes on Sydney's Kurnell peninsula in 2007 and remains located near Ballina on the north coast.

Unsolved homicide squad police believe the north coast bones, found at an undisclosed site, may be those of missing 31-year-old Lennox Head mother-of-two Bronwyn Joy Winfield, last seen at her home in 1993"

Remains found

 

[Meligator]

I listened to the episode about the banks, but didn’t follow completely. Sally seems pretty sure that Commonwealth was the bank she (sally) called/visited. How is colonial bank connected?

 

[Mel 1303]

I listened to the episode about the banks, but didn’t follow completely. Sally seems pretty sure that Commonwealth was the bank she (sally) called/visited. How is colonial bank connected?

Through out the podcast, it has been said that Marion withdrew money in $5000 increments from the Commonwealth bank at Byron Bay, as well as three times from the branch at Burleigh Heads. The letter sent to Marions dad described her withdrawing the balance of her account from the Colonial bank in Ashmore on Oct 15, and talking of starting a new life. In a more recent episode, the commonwealth bank said she had been with the Colonial bank, and that the account transitioned to the commonwealth after the bank merger- which was after Marion's disappearance.

I think, after as much digging and relistening as I can do, that in NSW Marion always banked with the Commonwealth. In QLD, she also opened an account with the Colonial State Bank, now having two accounts- Commonwealth and Colonial. After her disappearance, the Colonial account transitioned to the Commonwealth.

 

[mandycandy70]

Through out the podcast, it has been said that Marion withdrew money in $5000 increments from the Commonwealth bank at Byron Bay, as well as three times from the branch at Burleigh Heads. The letter sent to Marions dad described her withdrawing the balance of her account from the Colonial bank in Ashmore on Oct 15, and talking of starting a new life. In a more recent episode, the commonwealth bank said she had been with the Colonial bank, and that the account transitioned to the commonwealth after the bank merger- which was after Marion's disappearance.

I think, after as much digging and relistening as I can do, that in NSW Marion always banked with the Commonwealth. In QLD, she also opened an account with the Colonial State Bank, now having two accounts- Commonwealth and Colonial. After her disappearance, the Colonial account transitioned to the Commonwealth.

Sally mentioned that she only recently found out about the Colonial bank account. Her Mum had given her the bank details for her Commonwealth account so she could deposit the money there when her car sold.

 

[Mel 1303]

Sally mentioned that she only recently found out about the Colonial bank account. Her Mum had given her the bank details for her Commonwealth account so she could deposit the money there when her car sold.

This is the bank I would be focusing on. It was in the suburb where she lived, and according to the salvos, the bank securities officer was the one who identified her. It sounds as though he had contact details, as well, as the report back said to tell them to stop looking in Byron Bay, and to tell Sally she was angry about the car. On Oct 15 no one had started looking in Byron- the conversation must have happened later. Ashmore would be my focus- where she lived, where she met with mystery man, where she knew the dentist who witnessed her name change docs. I don't really understand why the podcast team is going back to Byron.

 

[mandycandy70]

This is the bank I would be focusing on. It was in the suburb where she lived, and according to the salvos, the bank securities officer was the one who identified her. It sounds as though he had contact details, as well, as the report back said to tell them to stop looking in Byron Bay, and to tell Sally she was angry about the car. On Oct 15 no one had started looking in Byron- the conversation must have happened later. Ashmore would be my focus- where she lived, where she met with mystery man, where she knew the dentist who witnessed her name change docs. I don't really understand why the podcast team is going back to Byron.

Hopefully soon all that info will be released...

 

[Meligator]

This is the bank I would be focusing on. It was in the suburb where she lived, and according to the salvos, the bank securities officer was the one who identified her. It sounds as though he had contact details, as well, as the report back said to tell them to stop looking in Byron Bay, and to tell Sally she was angry about the car. On Oct 15 no one had started looking in Byron- the conversation must have happened later. Ashmore would be my focus- where she lived, where she met with mystery man, where she knew the dentist who witnessed her name change docs. I don't really understand why the podcast team is going back to Byron.

I know that Oct 15 is reportedly when Marion withdrew money & closed the Colonial account. Do we know if she withdrew ALL the money from the commonwealth bank and if so when that was (did the last $5000 empty/close the account?).

Just curious, but how would the police/salvo have known Marion had an account at the colonial bank? Doesn’t seem like the police we’re doing a ton of investigating but somehow sought information from a different bank than the one Sally mentioned in her missing person report. Are bank records easily accessible by police?

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I know that Oct 15 is reportedly when Marion withdrew money & closed the Colonial account. Do we know if she withdrew ALL the money from the commonwealth bank and if so when that was (did the last $5000 empty/close the account?).

Just curious, but how would the police/salvo have known Marion had an account at the colonial bank? Doesn’t seem like the police we’re doing a ton of investigating but somehow sought information from a different bank than the one Sally mentioned in her missing person report. Are bank records easily accessible by police?

Her credit history would have been quickly and easily accessible to police. It was computerised by 97.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

This is the bank I would be focusing on. It was in the suburb where she lived, and according to the salvos, the bank securities officer was the one who identified her. It sounds as though he had contact details, as well, as the report back said to tell them to stop looking in Byron Bay, and to tell Sally she was angry about the car. On Oct 15 no one had started looking in Byron- the conversation must have happened later. Ashmore would be my focus- where she lived, where she met with mystery man, where she knew the dentist who witnessed her name change docs. I don't really understand why the podcast team is going back to Byron.

Yes the conversation with the securities officer must have been after the 15th Oct when she closed the account because according to the timeline she wasnt reported missing until 22nd Oct. It would be good if they could track down the Ashmore securities officer - this is the only person identified who has claimed to have actually spoken with Marion since her return to Australia.

 

[Mel 1303]

I know that Oct 15 is reportedly when Marion withdrew money & closed the Colonial account. Do we know if she withdrew ALL the money from the commonwealth bank and if so when that was (did the last $5000 empty/close the account?).

Just curious, but how would the police/salvo have known Marion had an account at the colonial bank? Doesn’t seem like the police we’re doing a ton of investigating but somehow sought information from a different bank than the one Sally mentioned in her missing person report. Are bank records easily accessible by police?

It sounds to me as though the police did more investigating at the time, and have let themselves and Sally down through poor bookkeeping. The police would have had access to her bank records, both commonwealth and colonial.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I know that Oct 15 is reportedly when Marion withdrew money & closed the Colonial account. Do we know if she withdrew ALL the money from the commonwealth bank and if so when that was (did the last $5000 empty/close the account?).

Just curious, but how would the police/salvo have known Marion had an account at the colonial bank? Doesn’t seem like the police we’re doing a ton of investigating but somehow sought information from a different bank than the one Sally mentioned in her missing person report. Are bank records easily accessible by police?

re Commonwealth Bank, when Sally visited the Byron Bay branch on the 22 October 1997, told them the story and showed them a photo of Marion, they put the account on hold with a message for Marion to urgently contact her daughter.

It’s never been publically revealed (that I know of) how much was left in the account at that point, if they ever lifted the hold, or if there were withdrawals afterwards.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Yes the conversation with the securities officer must have been after the 15th Oct when she closed the account because according to the timeline she wasnt reported missing until 22nd Oct. It would be good if they could track down the Ashmore securities officer - this is the only person identified who has claimed to have actually spoken with Marion since her return to Australia.

If I remember correctly, the securities officer was from Colonial State in Ashmore, not CBA in Byron.

It is believed Marion emptied and closed Colonial account on the 15 Oct 1997 and we’ve never know the withdrawal pattern there or how much was in it, other that she likely had the house sale money in it as that is where the mortgage was held.

The CBA bank was put on hold due to Sallys visit to Byron on 22 Oct 1997. To think that Sally was just a week in time and an hour’s drive away from coming face to face with whatever it is that took place...

 

[Mel 1303]

If I remember correctly, the securities officer was from Colonial State in Ashmore, not CBA in Byron.

It is believed Marion emptied and closed Colonial account on the 15 Oct 1997 and we’ve never know the withdrawal pattern there or how much was in it, other that she likely had the house sale money in it as that is where the mortgage was held.

The CBA bank was put on hold due to Sallys visit to Byron on 22 Oct 1997. To think that Sally was just a week in time and an hour’s drive away from coming face to face with whatever it is that took place...

I think the hold was temporary- didnt stop withdrawl, but had a message for her to call her daughter.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I think the hold was temporary- didnt stop withdrawl, but had a message for her to call her daughter.

Yes absolutely. From the Banks perspective Sally is an unauthorised third party. There wouldnt be any hold/freeze on transactions unless the notification came from Marion herself (or authorized govt body).

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

To think that Sally was just a week in time and an hour’s drive away from coming face to face with whatever it is that took place...

Poor Sally, its heartbreaking

 

[madoodi]

I just hope that if Marion is out there somewhere that she will in some shape or form reach out to Sally just so Sally knows she is ok.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I've been thinking about whether it could have been be possible for Marion to operate a Bank account without it being identified by police checks.
If the storage container was in the name of Florabella, Marion would have had enough identification documentation to open an account as Florabella (primary: passport and two secondary: change of name certificate and storage agreement/invoice). She may have done this before leaving Australia to cover the storage container payments and on return transferred funds from her 'Marion' accounts to her 'Florabella' account via the 5k cash withdrawals.
Perhaps police checks didnt find Florabellas account because it hadnt been flagged on any Govt reporting. If it was a transaction account with no overdraft/credit facility there would be no credit reference association record, if the account didnt earn interest it wouldnt be reported to ATO, if the transactions were under 10k and there were no overseas transfers there would be no FTRA record.
Probably lots of other reporting I haven't thought about but maybe it was possible.

 

[Sparkles5777]

Hi everyone! Long time lurker first time poster!

Something I've been pondering lately. I was under the impression that the unclaimed $20k was from Marions Barclays account she set up in the UK, which I did think was odd because if that was the case, even with Marion being an Australian citizen, an overseas bank would never transfer untouched money to another bank. Let alone another bank in another country. That makes no sense. They would just keep it in their own unclaimed account at Barcleys. So, after reading all of Sally's replies on her Facebook page and looking at the screen grab of the payment, the unclaimed $20,000 seems to actually be from Marions CBA account (it was being held in CBA's unclaimed funds unit) but the forwarding address listed was for the Barclays Bank in Rye. So the money didn't actually come from an untouched account in the UK. Meaning Marion (or someone claiming to be Marion) at some point, most likely when she returned to Australia and was withdrawing the $5k a day, changed her address with the CBA so that her mail would be forwarded to the UK. And if that was the case, when she came back to Australia, she fully intended on going back to the UK. I was also thinking about the conversations Gary had in the beginning. He said that noone had ever left Australia again using the Florabella passport. But he never specifically said that noone has ever left using Marion Barters passport. Unless I missed that bit?

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Hi everyone! Long time lurker first time poster!

Something I've been pondering lately. I was under the impression that the unclaimed $20k was from Marions Barclays account she set up in the UK, which I did think was odd because if that was the case, even with Marion being an Australian citizen, an overseas bank would never transfer untouched money to another bank. Let alone another bank in another country. That makes no sense. They would just keep it in their own unclaimed account at Barcleys. So, after reading all of Sally's replies on her Facebook page and looking at the screen grab of the payment, the unclaimed $20,000 seems to actually be from Marions CBA account (it was being held in CBA's unclaimed funds unit) but the forwarding address listed was for the Barclays Bank in Rye. So the money didn't actually come from an untouched account in the UK. Meaning Marion (or someone claiming to be Marion) at some point, most likely when she returned to Australia and was withdrawing the $5k a day, changed her address with the CBA so that her mail would be forwarded to the UK. And if that was the case, when she came back to Australia, she fully intended on going back to the UK. I was also thinking about the conversations Gary had in the beginning. He said that noone had ever left Australia again using the Florabella passport. But he never specifically said that noone has ever left using Marion Barters passport. Unless I missed that bit?

The reason the UK money shows as being CBA is because the money was an international transfer conducted by the Commonwealth Bank. Barclays were the Bank CBA processed their international transactions through in that location. So in relation to this transaction, Barclays were just an agent for CBA. When the UK money became dormant Barclays returned the funds to the CBA to action. The Rye address showing on the traceline is the address of the Barclays branch returning the money, it flags to CBA the funds relates to an international transaction and helps them match the return transaction to the original transaction.

When the money was returned to CBA, if Marion was still a customer she would have been contacted by them (CBA) about what to do with the money. If she was no longer a CBA customer (and it looks like this was the case) the funds would have gone straight to unclaimed monies.

 

[Sparkles5777]

The reason the UK money shows as being CBA is because the money was an international transfer conducted by the Commonwealth Bank. Barclays were the Bank CBA processed their international transactions through in that location. So in relation to this transaction, Barclays were just an agent for CBA. When the UK money became dormant Barclays returned the funds to the CBA to action. The Rye address showing on the traceline is the address of the Barclays branch returning the money, it flags to CBA the funds relates to an international transaction and helps them match the return transaction to the original transaction.

When the money was returned to CBA, if Marion was still a customer she would have been contacted by them (CBA) about what to do with the money. If she was no longer a CBA customer (and it looks like this was the case) the funds would have gone straight to unclaimed monies.

Ahh I see!! So it was her UK account afterall