Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

RB did get a passport issued in Bonn, Germany but I thought that was a replacement Australian ppt? Despite all the name changes, there is not yet any evidence of fake passports..although plenty of fake ids eg driving licences. The FD passenger cards must mean he was travelling in 1971 on an FD passport, either stolen or acquired with brother's birth certificate, but IMO there is another passport alias that was kept 'clean' , at least in the early Australian years that has not popped up yet.
Good luck with your searches.. I can't keep up with the DCOD theory, just too complex for my brain!

Or he really is F D and the WW passport was obtained using his brothers birth certificate.. explains always being called Ric

 

[mishy66]

Thanks. I have several timelines and one did not have the arrest listed. So RB would have arrived in Amsterdam on about 14th May, 1971 and within five weeks, he was arrested in France! The four years in prison must have been for previous crimes and perhaps a new crime where he was caught and arrested. Then he writes to DW from prison for four years. I wonder if her parents ever knew about his crimes. Maybe she used a POBox.

Can you clarify those dates please as there have been so many different dates on various timelines.
Thank you!
I have this down:

1971-12-09 sentenced to 4 years prison for fraud, forgery, confidence tricks, giving false identity
1972-01-11 sentenced to one month for unsecured cheques
1972-11-16 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentence)
1973-01-23 Fraud 1 years prison
1974-01 Dousai "checks without cover" 1 years prison
1974 -5- 21 - discharged from Valenciennes prison

 

[chicken96]

Ok this one is interesting Willy Coppenolle business registered in 1974
Ceased AUGUST 1997

Gegevens van de geregistreerde entiteit | KBO Public Search

Discontinued, Since August 1, 1997

01 Aug 1997 is the day of Sally's last phone call with MB, when she claimed to be in "Tunbridge Wells"

 

[mishy66]

Ok this one is interesting Willy Coppenolle business registered in 1974
Ceased AUGUST 1997

Gegevens van de geregistreerde entiteit | KBO Public Search

NICE find @Eyespywithmylittleeye !!!

 

[mishy66]

Sorry, maybe I misunderstood. I know that you were saying AW is actually Desiré Charles Octave DAVID but you also wrote "MC Married to - Désiré Jean-Pierre Joseph DAVID B1905- D1943", so I assumed you meant that was the husband she was married to and cheating on?

I think it is all these Davids, Desires, Willy Wouters, Willy Wonkers, that has our head spinning lol!

Yes I said that MC married to - Désiré Jean-Pierre Joseph DAVID B1905- D1943 ( this is her first husband as on the timeline and tree)
and that Maria C had an affair with AW - who's real name is Desiré Charles Octave DAVID. ( IMO)

Two different people. BUT that she met him under the name of Andre Wouters.

 

[Liselle]

It is such a head spin isn't it. He is so so cunning!
I am still working through a couple of things with what I think went down with these two.
I am still down the WW/DCOD hole at the moment hahaha!
I think I must have come onboard after the Cafe was found? What was the cafe business as I have no info on that one.
At this stage, because I have no info on a cafe the parents owned, I was going down another track. So this info could eliminate that for me.
No I don't think he was using this ship to meet Diane.
But these are just my thoughts and as you can see previously I have some out there ones lol.
To be honest, I come from a point that I do not believe a thing that comes out of his mouth when it comes to him SOLELY, and I work backwards from that.
Diane departed in Jan yes.

I found a news article (Canberra Times, May 1969) on Trove pertaining to the Shota Rustavelli ship DW sailed on in January 1970. It was only a South Pacific summer cruise, but why did she state on the Embarkation Card of going to Europe for 18 months? How did she get there and with whom??

 

[mishy66]

And FD 1985

Gegevens van de geregistreerde entiteit | KBO Public Search

Businesses set up for tax evasion ...???

 

[BabeBlues]

Is it just me or does he have the girliest looking handwriting? Was he travelling with someone else at this time I wonder?

It doesn't look like his handwriting with those circles for dotting his i's and the way he has written photographer is different to how he has written it before. But the distinct underscore/line in his signature is there. Hmmmmm....interesting!

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Businesses set up for tax evasion ...???

Quite possibly

 

[mishy66]

And FDH

Gegevens van de geregistreerde entiteit | KBO Public Search

inside doc the link takes you Renov Pubs.

Now this one is on the money!
Active up until May 2021
So Renov Pubs hasn't cancelled and moved onto other businesses.
ALL businesses still aligned with FdeH I would say. He just tried to hide it all.
Interesting find !

So with both WW and IK having the same address here -
rue des Francs, 46
1040 Etterbeek
Belgique

and activities still going on from that company leads me to suspect that this is a tax evasion company under the viso
Cordemans et Cie company and here is the 'tax advisor' Albert Cordemans and Dorothea Maslowska the A Team..
could be the 'dentist' and friend 'Maz'

And this could explain why I think WW and IK ( possibly without her knowing) have come out here in 1969 to set up an establishment in Australia. His REAL reason for using her to get residency fast and then heading back home.

IMO Just surmising

 

[vivienbee]

I think it is all these Davids, Desires, Willy Wouters, Willy Wonkers, that has our head spinning lol!

Yes I said that MC married to - Désiré Jean-Pierre Joseph DAVID B1905- D1943 ( this is her first husband as on the timeline and tree)
and that Maria C had an affair with AW - who's real name is Desiré Charles Octave DAVID. ( IMO)

Two different people. BUT that she met him under the name of Andre Wouters.

Okay, but that would still be a big coincidence, right? To meet two people with the same name (even if one was using an alias at the time)? I know the names are quite common Francophone names but it still seems hard to believe. I'm not saying it's impossible, by the way, it just strikes me that if that's the case it's more likely that the two David's are related in some way? Or am I still being really thick here?

 

[chicken96]

Now this one is on the money!
Active up until May 2021
So Renov Pubs hasn't cancelled and moved onto other businesses.
ALL businesses still aligned with FdeH I would say. He just tried to hide it all.
Interesting find !

So with both WW and IK having the same address here -
rue des Francs, 46
1040 Etterbeek
Belgique

and activities still going on from that company leads me to suspect that this is a tax evasion company under the viso
Cordemans et Cie company and here is the 'tax advisor' Albert Cordemans and Dorothea Maslowska the A Team..
could be the 'dentist' and friend 'Maz'

And this could explain why I think WW and IK ( possibly without her knowing) have come out here in 1969 to set up an establishment in Australia. His REAL reason for using her to get residency fast and then heading back home.

IMO Just surmising

Interesting that it notes online - "The following company is established at this address BLUM, RIC"

Bien sur Realo

I wonder if he still owns it?

 

[Meligator]

BBM
Could someone please confirm the date he was arrested.
Ruby states June 1971 but I have on my timeline:
9 Dec 1971 – WW 4 years prison in France
Which date is correct?[/QUOTE

June was stated in the inquest, but December is listed on the NAA paperwork. I’ve wondered about this discrepancy, but suspect June is likely accurate since Casseldon seemed in agreement with that date.

 

[mishy66]

Oh I just love all of this @Eyespywithmylittleeye ! And absolutely it could be that old mate used DCOD "Don Juan' as a Mentor or as a guide after studying his life in later years. I agree completely and it really is the most logical and balanced outlook on it all. It would make it all the more viable to believe.

BUT for me personally, I don't believe that is what old mate did.
I am still going with it all as I am rather enjoying reading all the history of things.
And as this isn't a 'win a pony' at the end game for who was right or wrong but more to help eliminate any semblance of a theory /idea/hypothesis then that is what keeps me going. I take Sally's lead of exploring every avenue until it is a dead end. And that dead end might just be around the corner for me hahahaa!

I would be VERY surprised to find any birth certs on either AW or DCOD (if they are two different people) because of various factors - there is ZIP to go on in regard to AW - that very reasoning has kept me going with it - that is VERY odd. Even though there were wars, displacements of people, relatives of said people, you can usually find something, but there is nothing on him - not even on that EXTENSIVE Gen Tree that person did on over 80 000 people! .

AND...as you said "proper proof of birth certificate with Don Juan as the father"... OR for that matter proof of a birth certificate with AW and MC !.... of any male children is not to be found! ( at this point in time)

And for DCOD, he got caught using that name yes, he has a birth and death notice in that name yes, and after the 1934 trial in France, there is not one shred of evidence I have found this far that he was even alive until his death notice pops up! ( Thanks to you - that kept driving me on dang!

If he is really DCOD and has changed his name to AW then there is a plausible reason in doing so and I am up that path at the moment!
LIKE WHY after the trial in 1934, he has no footprint? ( or not one that I have found so far!)

Too many 'coincidences' for me to throw DCOD to the curb just yet.

Like these - which can be swept away with the idea that RB just read stories about him for sure;
Wounded war hero
Placed advertisements to find woman
Fraud
Womaniser
Professional Dancer / gigolo
Flitting all over Europe - especially Amsterdam France & Germany
Accomplices who helped choose victims – (MOO with RB)
Passing himself off as a member of a rich noble family
Claimed disabled to work – living off the riches of the women
etc etc etc

So I started here with the idea that RB father is DCOD ( 'don juan' ) name changed to "Andre Wouters" after the trial at some point and under THIS name AW, meets Maria C and have the affair.

RB claims to visit his family all the time ( we know he is mostly fleecing ) – but he hasn't spoken to his brother for 30 yrs, DdeH doesn't actually say WHO they stay with when they were there, only that it is family friends etc / his cousins / brothers ( in arms perhaps )

RB visits Amsterdam a lot - in fact the whole family spend time there

RB manages to get a German Passport – How does he do that?

RB christens his children in a Catholic Church in UK - WHY??? He has never shown any interest in being a Christian
( maybe they are both praying that the kids get a decent job when they grow up)

And that then started a flood gate that I cant let go of just yet!
But it is all starting to make sense with RB and WHY he choses his aliases.
And you and centred and kittens and chicken have helped me no end!
Even if it all goes to sh** and the dead end, it has been veerrryyyyy interesting!

EDIT * I fixed up one of the Initials that I had incorrect in the previous post.

 

[centred]

Did Casseldon mention the name Emil when asking RB about his father Abel Worters and RB corrected him and i think D was asked about the same name .
Does anyone remember if it was Emil or Lehel or something else ?

 

[chicken96]

deleted - not relevant.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Okay, but that would still be a big coincidence, right? To meet two people with the same name (even if one was using an alias at the time)? I know the names are quite common Francophone names but it still seems hard to believe. I'm not saying it's impossible, by the way, it just strikes me that if that's the case it's more likely that the two David's are related in some way? Or am I still being really thick here?

I keep going back to that - there must be a connection.. distant cousin, etc but I’ve yet to find it.

 

[BabeBlues]

That’s why it screamed out at me.

When you click through on the FD file under "Data and activities per VE" it shows the main activities of this business to be since 1 July 1996 sales mediation, the deposits and consignment fund (translated), and support activities in connection with.m (sic) insurance and pension funds. Discontinued 30 June 2005. These dates coincide with Australia's financial year being 1 July - 30 June.
Location unit data | KBO Public Search (fgov.be)

Renov Pubs which is still active under the name FdH main activity since 1 Jan 2008 is designing and conducting advertising and promotional campaigns for third parties through the various media.

WC main activity was since 19 July 1974 Retail trade services of meat and meat products
WW main activity was Wholesale trade services of fruit and vegetables since 1 January 1971

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

More businesses registered to RBs address at Rue des Francs 46 1040 Etterbeek

Exact adres als resultaat van de opzoeking | KBO Public Search

Ecozy appears to be legit from my searches last time we touched on this address and businesses registered there. The other one you have shared is interesting.. freight??? Perhaps coins and old books sent to Australia kind of freight?
We need to also keep in mind it is an apartment building and the register is not showing unit numbers.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Interesting that it notes online - "The following company is established at this address BLUM, RIC"

Bien sur Realo

I wonder if he still owns it?

I always though it was an apartment having seen various unit numbers on real estate listings.. BUT perhaps it was a house that was split into flats??