Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[bbbounce]

Funnily he also said that about her appearance in the 60’s in Switzerland… I have a vague memory very earl in TLV of one of the sisters saying she was fashionable back then with clothing… did I dream that comment or does anyone else remember it?

I think he described her as old fashioned also because he’s heard it said several times in the podcast, I think it’s even in the opening credits.

 

[Estelle]

Agreed that regardless it would have flagged up as a dodgy situation.

But if it wasn't Marion who withdrew the money and someone inside the bank was bribed, why did he go overseas with Marion at all?

"Here's a ticket to England, go and enjoy yourself. I'll come and join you as soon as I've got a few things tied up here and we can buy a house together and move to Lux. Leave your documents with me here so I can buy us a new property." He stays in Aus and withdraws the money, with someone on the inside not caring about the lack of ID. Wouldn't that be easier?

Surely if someone was working as an insider at the bank/getting paid off they wouldn't have the scruples to be like, "yeah, you can withdraw this money no questions asked, but I'm gonna need to see the ID for the sake of it."

No idea where I'm going with this, just thinking out loud.

Maybe the teller, who could have been bribed, was changing jobs soon after as the Colonial Bank changed to CBA so he didn't think he would ever be caught.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Great find F.Knab, absolutely fascinating, just looking through it now .... wait, it looks like two different people, having trouble reconciling the other photo of IK with this one of IK. H'mm. What do you think?

I think the other one is a mistake, I think it may even be RB, it looks like they mixed up the photo, I think the pretty one is her the other one is a man

I was confused as well but looking back the other one seems to be a RB file

 

[Estelle]

Yes this is the big Question! Why.
They weren't on that ship.
I made comment a while back that is it because it is something to do with her and not him at this point?
She is about 19 ? from a wealthy family. Meets a European sweet talker and falls head over heels. He has spoken many times about his zest for sex ( opps! sorry he made it clear the women are the sex fiends not him), her family would be very disappointed should she fall pregnant prior to marriage at that time yes?
Just my thoughts on this specific timeline.

1976-02-20 FD de Hedervary marries wife #4 Diane Walker at Wayside Chapel, Sydney
1979-04-02 FD and Diane first child (David De H) born in Sydney

 

[Estelle]

Yes this is the big Question! Why.
They weren't on that ship.
I made comment a while back that is it because it is something to do with her and not him at this point?
She is about 19 ? from a wealthy family. Meets a European sweet talker and falls head over heels. He has spoken many times about his zest for sex ( opps! sorry he made it clear the women are the sex fiends not him), her family would be very disappointed should she fall pregnant prior to marriage at that time yes?
Just my thoughts on this specific timeline.

IMO RB as Michael J Reid may not have got a divorce from Ilona thinking he could get away with it with all his name changes.
1976 Marries DdH
1997 Ilona died

Depending if he was married to Ilona in Belgium in 1970 legally, and did not bother to get a legal divorce, it is quite possible he was married to both women at the same time. Bigamy?

 

[mishy66]

Great find F.Knab, absolutely fascinating, just looking through it now .... wait, it looks like two different people, having trouble reconciling the other photo of IK with this one of IK. H'mm. What do you think?

No this is her that @F.Knab has.
That one that someone posted up a while back I think is old mate - he is the applicant and the card is asking for family travelling with him...

 

[brjakj]

What year did marion and her friend Barb go for a trip to Tasmania? Was it the same year that RB was living there?

 

[mishy66]

1976-02-20 FD de Hedervary marries wife #4 Diane Walker at Wayside Chapel, Sydney
1979-04-02 FD and Diane first child (David De H) born in Sydney

Yes I know the children of this unions birthdates but I was suggesting an earlier pregnancy......

 

[Estelle]

Chusan is the name of an island in China (and the ship is named after the island). Could it be the ship is a diversion from the real sentimental link to the island? Just spitballing here.
EDIT: Zhoushan is the Chinese name for the island and Chusan the (anglisised?) name. In this context Zhou means “leaf shaped Boat” and Shan means “mountain/hill”.

In 1830, the Chusan palm was brought into Europe from Japan. The man who brought it was a German physician named Philipp Franz von Siebold. This plant was not named after him, however, but after Chusan Island, which is now called Zhoushan Island. The first time the palm was described was in 1850 by Carl Friedrich Philipp von Maritus; he wrote about it in his work Historia Naturalis Palmarum.

The Chusan palm is commonly grown in many European countries, the southwestern and northwestern United States, and Asia. They grow abundantly in the Chusan Islands, China, and Taiwan. The palms are also the focal points of some gardens and outdoor spaces. They are grown in gardens around the globe and serve as a specimen that provides shelter to its surrounding plants. In addition, the palm is a perfect combination for every beach.

What is a Chusan Palm? (with picture)

 

[LEO123]

Thought it was worth revisiting this article in which Sally has stated that Marion's wallet was stolen from her car by a woman who "looked uncannily like her."
PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

After reading this again, i notice it says - even though the woman was CAUGHT, they were never able to relocate her. Do they mean she gave false name etc, or it’s worded badly and meant caught on CCTV.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

After reading this again, i notice it says - even though the woman was CAUGHT, they were never able to relocate her. Do they mean she gave false name etc, or it’s worded badly and meant caught on CCTV.

Completely unrelated What are the odds of DdH also having aliases?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

No this is her that @F.Knab has.
That one that someone posted up a while back I think is old mate - he is the applicant and the card is asking for family travelling with him...

Ah, I get it, haha, thanks mishy66, I'd been thinking that was IK all along! Thank you. Oh boy, that picture looked like a woman to me

I think the other one is a mistake, I think it may even be RB, it looks like they mixed up the photo, I think the pretty one is her the other one is a man

I was confused as well but looking back the other one seems to be a RB file

Thanks KiwiNZ, totally get it now, her name and the F for female next to the photo threw me

 

[mishy66]

Ah, I get it, haha, thanks mishy66, I'd been thinking that was IK all along! Thank you. Oh boy, that picture looked like a woman to me

Thanks KiwiNZ, totally get it now, her name and the F for female next to the photo threw me

You can see still the resemblance as he looks today I reckon. Wish there was a photo of him in his 40s or 50s!

 

[mishy66]

Completely unrelated What are the odds of DdH also having aliases?

yep without question.

 

[Estelle]

Yes I know the children of this unions birthdates but I was suggesting an earlier pregnancy......

But weren't you suggesting that they may have had to get married as DdH was pregnant?
Miscarriage? Abortion (no need to get married then)?

I would predict that as soon as he got the job of working in her parent's cafe, found out DdH's parents were wealthy and had a single daughter aged about 23/24yo then, he was full of charm to all three. They probably invited him home for a meal and he eventually wheedled his way into living there claiming he had to move out of his room as the owners had sold the house where he was living and they felt sorry for him. Or maybe they offered the room as part of his job. He then worked on DdH probably proposing to her not long after he met her as he was keen to get Australian residency again by marrying an Australian. Did her parents approve of the marriage? Not sure as the Wayside Chapel would not have been a place which wealthy parents would choose for their only daughter's wedding. But she was left an inheritance so they didn't cut her off. As her parents seem to have been well-established, and died about ten or more years later when DdH claimed she inherited, I suspect that they were older parents. IMO

 

[Estelle]

After reading this again, i notice it says - even though the woman was CAUGHT, they were never able to relocate her. Do they mean she gave false name etc, or it’s worded badly and meant caught on CCTV.

This is on my timeline:

1997 MB had a theft from her car a while before her trip to the UK. Sally remarked the person on CCTV looked like Marion. Medicare card and wallet stolen.

So this female was caught on CCTV but the police weren't able to locate her as they didn't have the person's address or name. Was her car in a car park?

IMO it is very likely it was DdH. Perhaps RB and DdH were following Marion and she did not lock her car before she went shopping so they took the opportunity hoping to get her ID, Medicare card and cash in her wallet. Perhaps Marion did not bother to get another Medicare card as it was so close to her going overseas. Hence the use of Marion's Medicare card in Grafton in September is very suspicious.

This is another reason I strongly believe that DdH has been involved although it is speculative at the moment. IMO

 

[Estelle]

Completely unrelated What are the odds of DdH also having aliases?

I was very curious when Casselden asked her if she had ever used another name and, of course, she said "no". But that question is rarely asked in legal cases. But IMO it is very likely she has also used aliases over the years as her husband seems adept at getting them. I predict she had a passport in another name also and could have used it in 1997. I wonder if police have located evidence of one she has used?

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

Hearing RB say that Marion had a large appetite for sex was a direct stab at Sally in my opinion. RB must be furious with what Sally has been able to achieve in bringing everything to light and this comment was purely a stab at that. It must have been so sad for Sally to hear. The guy is a psychopath. I have a feeling he’ll have other comments like this when he is back giving evidence.

 

[LEO123]

This is on my timeline:

1997 MB had a theft from her car a while before her trip to the UK. Sally remarked the person on CCTV looked like Marion. Medicare card and wallet stolen.

So this female was caught on CCTV but the police weren't able to locate her as they didn't have the person's address or name. Was her car in a car park?

IMO it is very likely it was DdH. Perhaps RB and DdH were following Marion and she did not lock her car before she went shopping so they took the opportunity hoping to get her ID, Medicare card and cash in her wallet. Perhaps Marion did not bother to get another Medicare card as it was so close to her going overseas. Hence the use of Marion's Medicare card in Grafton in September is very suspicious.

This is another reason I strongly believe that DdH has been involved although it is speculative at the moment. IMO

I have a vague recollection that her car was parked in her driveway, and she left her purse in the car. Wouldn’t Marion have cancelled that Medicare card and gotten a new one issued? RB has probably gotten his hands on that later. DDH denied using any other names, but I’d say the police have evidence that proves otherwise.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

You can see still the resemblance as he looks today I reckon. Wish there was a photo of him in his 40s or 50s!

This one's 47 years of age, but yeah, not very good quality shot ... be good if someone with photographic skills could work on it and colourise it, make it clearer