Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

[Itsapuzzle]

Conversations 12 was pretty interesting .... good to hear the mystery around some of the bankers has been cleared, Bill and Brian, seem like nice blokes ... I wonder if they asked them about staff/Managers heading over to other branches to fill in temporarily, such as to the Burleigh Heads for three days or so, if that ever happened?

 

[Joni C]

In the ad, the Box L51 doesn’t seem to conform to how other P.O. Box’s were listed (all numerals vs letter & 2 numerals). Wonder if this and/or phone number is some kind of messaging service used by people listing ads, so they don’t have to publish their actual phone numbers?

According to the old post mistress,m at lennox head, the "L" stood for Lennox Head , it was because all the mail went to Ballina in the 90s and they manually sorted it there, so L was put there to make the sorting process of a whole lot of tiny beach towns & post offices !

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Today's musing .... could the daily withdrawals of $5000 have been foreign exchange currency, may have converted the Australian dollars to Luxembourgish francs and left with a stash of francs to take home in their suitcase? I know nothing about banking and foreign exchange, but just another thought.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Conversations 12 was pretty interesting .... good to hear the mystery around some of the bankers has been cleared, Bill and Brian, seem like nice blokes ... I wonder if they asked them about staff/Managers heading over to other branches to fill in temporarily, such as to the Burleigh Heads for three days or so, if that ever happened?

Good to see they got some cooperation from former bank staff members but Bryan and Alson slinging off at the Commonwealth Bank for not assisting them is as naive as it is pointless.

I am about as fond of banks as the next person - not fond at all - but they shouldn't be expected to assist with unauthorized inquiries. If it was the police knocking on their door I'm sure they would assist accordingly. But as we have heard repeatedly, the police are not willing to offer their authority to the Podcast's fact finding mission.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Neither here nor there really, but has anyone been able to find a photo of Mr Glover, per chance? Would just be curious to see what he looked like ... found his wife and daughter in the archives, but his image is proving quite elusive in my searches.

 

[natural sagacity]

Today's musing .... could the daily withdrawals of $5000 have been foreign exchange currency, may have converted the Australian dollars to Luxembourgish francs and left with a stash of francs to take home in their suitcase? I know nothing about banking and foreign exchange, but just another thought.

Good to see they got some cooperation from former bank staff members but Bryan and Alson slinging off at the Commonwealth Bank for not assisting them is as naive as it is pointless.

I am about as fond of banks as the next person - not fond at all - but they shouldn't be expected to assist with unauthorized inquiries. If it was the police knocking on their door I'm sure they would assist accordingly. But as we have heard repeatedly, the police are not willing to offer their authority to the Podcast's fact finding mission.

According to the email Sally received from Gary he has already received all the appropriate information from te CBA. years ago, so I really don't know what Bryan's angle is. I think they are just grasping at straws now.

 

[Mel 1303]

Conversations 12.

The wire transfer. In my opinion, this red herring has arisen from bad notekeeping. This was written in the original occurrence.

In a previous conversation Sally stated that the occurrence was lodged about 35 minutes after her visit. This leaves no time for any kind of an investigation- it is simply the write up of the police officers take on the report. Sally herself said way back that she initially thought it was about $80000 that was taken out, which completely correlates with this report. She had been overseas, was meant to still be overseas- really sounds as though the officer wasn't concentrating that hard and wrote from misinformed recollection. There has been no wire transfer.

I asked a friend who worked in a bank at the time- not the CBA, but a different bank in NSW. She said that is she had a customer come in and want to take out $5000, they would have double certified the id, and if it was an out of town address, would definitely have taken a photocopy of the id for their records. If the bank did indeed take a photocopy, and the manager confirmed the id matched the customer, I can see why the police believe it was Marion. If this occurred, there is absolutely no way that Sally is entitled to the information, as frustrating as that is for her.

As far as the CBA not being forthcoming with the podcast- have they forgotten that only a few short weeks ago they were encouraging customers to email and complain? They bagged them out- and now they want their cooperation. I don't know about everyone else, but in my opinion, you get what you give in many occasions. They gave the bank a hard time for really just following the law, and now they want the bank to play nice. Doesn't work that way.

 

[Mel 1303]

Good to see they got some cooperation from former bank staff members but Bryan and Alson slinging off at the Commonwealth Bank for not assisting them is as naive as it is pointless.

I am about as fond of banks as the next person - not fond at all - but they shouldn't be expected to assist with unauthorized inquiries. If it was the police knocking on their door I'm sure they would assist accordingly. But as we have heard repeatedly, the police are not willing to offer their authority to the Podcast's fact finding mission.

Sally is a woman who desperately misses her mum. She just wants to find out what happened- she is not an expert, just a regular citizen frustrated beyond belief. Alison is a freedom of information officer. She knows this stuff. Alison is a professional who is acting like she naïve as to privacy laws. Bryan is an investigative journalist. This should be bread and butter stuff for Alison and Bryan, or I would have thought so.

The bank has already provided all of the information to the police, according to the podcast. It is my opinion that it is in the banks report that police believe they have found sufficient evidence to believe that Marion was behind the withdrawals, and made the statement that she wanted to start over. That she was angry with Sally about the car.

 

[sunnynz]

If the bank did indeed take a photocopy, and the manager confirmed the id matched the customer, I can see why the police believe it was Marion. If this occurred, there is absolutely no way that Sally is entitled to the information, as frustrating as that is for her.

I agree with most of your other comments just now, except for this. I volunteered at a domestic violence emergency shelter and received training on power and control techniques used by abusers. There's every chance Marion withdrew that money herself but did it through coercion (either overt, or through more subtle emotional manipulation) by a partner/boyfriend who then went on to harm her. Gaining access to/control of a woman's money is a very common ploy used by abusers.

Overall it seems more and more implied by the podcast IMO that the police have some evidence that shows that Marion left of her own volition, and hopefully something will be released to Sally which will give her closure to this effect in some conclusive way. However, in the meantime there's still the possibility that Marion could have met with foul play at the hands of a partner, that I think Sally is right to be chasing up this bank stuff - it's a solid avenue to investigate. Yes, the CBA is bound by confidentiality rules but the pressure from Sally will hopefully drive the police to fully cover off this avenue of investigation.

 

[Mel 1303]

I agree with most of your other comments just now, except for this. I volunteered at a domestic violence emergency shelter and received training on power and control techniques used by abusers. There's every chance Marion withdrew that money herself but did it through coercion (either overt, or through more subtle emotional manipulation) by a partner/boyfriend who then went on to harm her. Gaining access to/control of a woman's money is a very common ploy used by abusers.

Overall it seems more and more implied by the podcast IMO that the police have some evidence that shows that Marion left of her own volition, and hopefully something will be released to Sally which will give her closure to this effect in some conclusive way. However, in the meantime there's still the possibility that Marion could have met with foul play at the hands of a partner, that I think Sally is right to be chasing up this bank stuff - it's a solid avenue to investigate. Yes, the CBA is bound by confidentiality rules but the pressure from Sally will hopefully drive the police to fully cover off this avenue of investigation.

I completely agree- Marion could well have been coerced, or acting under the grip of an undiagnosed mental illness. Its really tricky, as some of the laws around protecting those who choose to walk away from their lives are there because of domestic violence, to protect victims from their attackers. I hope in this case the laws are not protecting an abuser.

I got the impression from this most recent conversation that the bank had handed over everything they had a number of years ago, to the police. Gary Sheehans email said that it was part of the reason why they decided not to have her on the missing persons register.

 

[natural sagacity]

I agree with most of your other comments just now, except for this. I volunteered at a domestic violence emergency shelter and received training on power and control techniques used by abusers. There's every chance Marion withdrew that money herself but did it through coercion (either overt, or through more subtle emotional manipulation) by a partner/boyfriend who then went on to harm her. Gaining access to/control of a woman's money is a very common ploy used by abusers.

Overall it seems more and more implied by the podcast IMO that the police have some evidence that shows that Marion left of her own volition, and hopefully something will be released to Sally which will give her closure to this effect in some conclusive way. However, in the meantime there's still the possibility that Marion could have met with foul play at the hands of a partner, that I think Sally is right to be chasing up this bank stuff - it's a solid avenue to investigate. Yes, the CBA is bound by confidentiality rules but the pressure from Sally will hopefully drive the police to fully cover off this avenue of investigation.

There is also the fact that Marion left because she wanted to and as hard as this is for people to accept, sometimes that is just the way it is. I find it really difficult to accept anything that Sally, Bryan and Allison have to say because until the file is released everything is based on their opinion and sensationalism, rather than cold hard facts. I will reserve my opinion until the file is released. Ron Iddles also stated that the "änswer is always in the file". The answer is sometimes not what people want to hear or accept.

 

[StarrChance]

There is also the fact that Marion left because she wanted to and as hard as this is for people to accept, sometimes that is just the way it is. I find it really difficult to accept anything that Sally, Bryan and Allison have to say because until the file is released everything is based on their opinion and sensationalism, rather than cold hard facts. I will reserve my opinion until the file is released. Ron Iddles also stated that the "änswer is always in the file". The answer is sometimes not what people want to hear or accept.

However the podcast and sensationalism is the only way they can get file, catch 22...

 

[natural sagacity]

However the podcast and sensationalism is the only way they can get file, catch 22...

Channel 7 are paying for the administrative process. Sally could have paid herself and received the same outcome.

 

[sunnynz]

Channel 7 are paying for the administrative process. Sally could have paid herself and received the same outcome.

The administrative process is one thing - the added spotlight from the podcast and channel seven would definitely be putting the pressure on the police to take action. No way sally could get the same results just as a single person acting on her own IMO

 

[natural sagacity]

The administrative process is one thing - the added spotlight from the podcast and channel seven would definitely be putting the pressure on the police to take action. No way sally could get the same results just as a single person acting on her own IMO

From most of what Gary has said, the police have taken action and they have the results, however due to Marion's privacy they do not want the info released. If a person goes missing of their own accord does it mean that their privacy should be breached, particularly if the police are satisfied this is the case. Putting emotion aside, a person's privacy should be protected regardless and no one has the right to question an adults decision to estranged him/herself from their family. When decisions are made to breach a person's privacy, where and when does it stop?

 

[StarrChance]

From most of what Gary has said, the police have taken action and they have the results, however due to Marion's privacy they do not want the info released. If a person goes missing of their own accord does it mean that their privacy should be breached, particularly if the police are satisfied this is the case. Putting emotion aside, a person's privacy should be protected regardless and no one has the right to question an adults decision to estranged him/herself from their family. When decisions are made to breach a person's privacy, where and when does it stop?

I understand your POV, however all Sally really wants is confirmation her mother was sighted and talked to by police and this has not happened. Sally says she is willing to walk away if that is confirmed. I can’t imagine being in her shoes, she has been so strong in the past but it’s obvious the scrutiny of the process is taking a toll on her mental and physical health. I hope she does get a answer to her questions.

 

[Cagney&Lacey]

Hey sleuthers, I'm back .... but wait, you didn't notice I went, did you ... fair enough .... anyway back from my outrage about the door knock on Remakel's door ... I've still been sleuthing and listening to the podcasts and sharing theories and thoughts, so a bit hypocritical of me really .... well, there it is. I am completely obsessed to the point of insanity to find out who wrote this ad in Le Courrier newspaper. The search continues ... am looking in the website archives on Trove mostly, it's very interesting there .....

I could tell by your passion you wouldn’t be gone Long Puzzle.
I went on a tangent thinking that if you only needed a birth & marriage certificate to change your name, then perhaps Marion didn’t do it herself. I then thought, maybe it wasn’t her that left on that passport

I then considered all the communication she made from abroad and squashed those theories. My opinion is she was 100% still invested in her family’s well being up until that return flight home. That’s when something untoward has happened.

The name change leads me to believe she was travelling with a new love interest she hadn’t shared with Sally. Maybe she planned to down the track but never got the chance. By The Podcast’s account she was a romantic at heart so this seems a likely scenario.

I think Marion met with foul play shortly after her last phone call to Sally. I don’t believe she willingly returned to Australia or withdrew the funds from her account.

My suspicions are also heightened with CBA staff but if something dodgy was going on there they would need to know Marion was out of the picture. How would they know with absolute certainty that Marion wouldn’t notice the withdrawals on her account?

As far as I’m aware we still do not know for certain that these withdrawals were done over the counter. Is there a possibility they are transfers performed in branch. I.e. cash withdrawals assigned to her account but no actual customer presenting in branch.

I’m not fixed on a scenario just tossing ideas around

 

[Cliff Hardy]

There is a full length interview with Bryan Seymour on 'True Crime Conversions' with journalist Jessie Stephens.

This site won't let me post a shortcut but it isn't hard to find.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Today's the day of the NCAT decision, isn't it ...... haven't heard any updates yet, anyone know anything? Well, here's hoping they got all the documents they want/need, and I hope too they photograph them all for us and upload in a screenshot for us to examine ... is that greedy?

 

[natural sagacity]

Today's the day of the NCAT decision, isn't it ...... haven't heard any updates yet, anyone know anything? Well, here's hoping they got all the documents they want/need, and I hope too they photograph them all for us and upload in a screenshot for us to examine ... is that greedy?

If the documents are released, I think that yes all followers should have access via screen shot because the whole Marion Barter case has been put out there for everyone so it is only fair.