Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #21

[Jennyw12000]

Yes and what was the answer ?

Yes it was a thing. From memory, parents would often buy anonymous bearer bonds that others could then cash in. To avoid the inheritance taxes, people would cash them over the border in I believe Luxemburg. The small amounts were the interest accrued I believe. (Illegally as it was tax avoidance but it was extremely common). The system has changed now apparently so that bonds are linked to a purchaser. The inheritance system in Belgium is different to that in countries like Australia where we have a formal process of dispersing the inherited money/goods. It seems that people could sort it out themselves rather than have a formal executor to oversee the will after someone’s death. As I say, this is from memory if the episode.

 

[Annalize]

Yes it was a thing. From memory, parents would often buy anonymous bearer bonds that others could then cash in. To avoid the inheritance taxes, people would cash them over the border in I believe Luxemburg. The small amounts were the interest accrued I believe. (Illegally as it was tax avoidance but it was extremely common). The system has changed now apparently so that bonds are linked to a purchaser. The inheritance system in Belgium is different to that in countries like Australia where we have a formal process of dispersing the inherited money/goods. It seems that people could sort it out themselves rather than have a formal executor to oversee the will after someone’s death. As I say, this is from memory if the episode.

Did the neighbour say that the esteemed AKA was printing Bonds Certificates in his garage?

 

[mishy66]

MBFB Page

FROM AH
22 Rue des Muguets, 5970 Itzig Hesperange, Luxembourg

TO MC
16 Rue de la Libération, 5969 Itzig Hesperange, Luxembourg

22 Rue des Muguets to 16 Rue de la Libération

www.google.com

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

MBFB Page

FROM AH
22 Rue des Muguets, 5970 Itzig Hesperange, Luxembourg

TO MC
16 Rue de la Libération, 5969 Itzig Hesperange, Luxembourg

22 Rue des Muguets to 16 Rue de la Libération

www.google.com

If we are to take the word of both MC & DdeH neither knew of each other until MC listened in on AKA at the phone kiosk. Can we all agree this is nonsense?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I know I’ve asked before but assuming as many do that Marion did return to Australia. If her life savings have been stolen (bar the amount shown in Barclays), with no house and no car what would a perpetrator do? You can’t leave her wandering alone in Australia hoping there’s no comeback. One phone call to her family and he would be exposed.

 

[CuriousKat99]

I know I’ve asked before but assuming as many do that Marion did return to Australia. If her life savings have been stolen (bar the amount shown in Barclays), with no house and no car what would a perpetrator do? You can’t leave her wandering alone in Australia hoping there’s no comeback. One phone call to her family and he would be exposed.

She may have confronted him and threatened to expose him before going to her family unfortunately.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

She may have confronted him and threatened to expose him before going to her family unfortunately.

JMO but if he knew Marion by at least Feb 1997 the whole sting was taking far too long by Oct 1997 and had involved far too much travelling and possible sightings. This is a guy who ‘allegedly’ acts very fast and doesn’t want to hang around. I wonder if impatience and frustration was playing on his anger?

 

[ruby925]

I know I’ve asked before but assuming as many do that Marion did return to Australia. If her life savings have been stolen (bar the amount shown in Barclays), with no house and no car what would a perpetrator do? You can’t leave her wandering alone in Australia hoping there’s no comeback. One phone call to her family and he would be exposed.

Who would be exposed though? Fernand Remakel, Richard Lloyd Westbury, Frederik DeHedervary...? Although we know he travelled ex Australia on the Westbury passport, that wasn't his legal name at that time (as per the inquest) and we don't know for certain which name he used with Marion.

 

[Newby171]

If we are to take the word of both MC & DdeH neither knew of each other until MC listened in on AKA at the phone kiosk. Can we all agree this is nonsense?

I think coercive control may have kept one in her place. I am not saying she didn’t know, but she probably could not go against him.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Who would be exposed though? Fernand Remakel, Richard Lloyd Westbury, Frederik DeHedervary...? Although we know he travelled ex Australia on the Westbury passport, that wasn't his legal name at that time (as per the inquest) and we don't know for certain which name he used with Marion.

True. We don’t know for certain but (JMO) the odds are stacked in favour of the name of FR? Marion’s name would have had to be changed without her knowing and it does seem she did play some part in that under his control.

It’s the fact Marion took at least 8 months to get to the end game. Most victims were ‘allegedly’ stung within weeks or a few months. He doesn’t strike me as a man with much patience.

 

[CuriousKat99]

I think coercive control may have kept one in her place. I am not saying she didn’t know, but she probably could not go against him.

Yes I agree, especially when she had a very young child as well as living in a foreign country where she didn’t speak the language. Pretty much trapped.

 

[CuriousKat99]

I know I’ve asked before but assuming as many do that Marion did return to Australia. If her life savings have been stolen (bar the amount shown in Barclays), with no house and no car what would a perpetrator do? You can’t leave her wandering alone in Australia hoping there’s no comeback. One phone call to her family and he would be exposed.

The MC story was obviously clouded by her shame at being involved in an affair with a married man with a young child. No way was she going to admit she did that.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

The MC story was obviously clouded by her shame at being involved in an affair with a married man with a young child. No way was she going to admit she did that.

True. The latest MPMB page showing the short distance between where AKA and wife lived in relation to MC in order to highlight that AKA might be willing to take the risk of staying close to Marion.

To me this post makes it almost inconceivable that MC didn’t know AKAs marital status and that he had a young family living very closely by. Was the story about that phone kiosk a little white lie?

It’s relevant because in my experience (JMO) when someone tells a little white lie there are some big fat ones hiding in the background.

 

[KeenSleuth17]

So, seems like he moves when someone comes looking for him....If he was responsible for MB's death, then he wouldn't need to avoid her hiring an investigator or coming looking for him...EXCEPT, if alerted by bank on Oct 22, that Sally was looking for her mother. If bank had his contact info and reached out looking for Marion, that could be what spooked him into moving homes and the money from his safety box. Really trying to decide if the moving makes it more or less likely that he was responsible for her death.

Just to expand on this, and something I was thinking about today… do we think it is possible that somehow RB has come to understand that Sally has reported her mum missing and has then contacted Sally and pretended to be a NSW police officer stating her mother was located/fine/didn’t want to be found by her family. Could this fit with the story? It would explain why there was no police records of that… notwithstanding that there was evidence of poor policing at the time…. Just a thought.

If we are to take the word of both MC & DdeH neither knew of each other until MC listened in on AKA at the phone kiosk. Can we all agree this is nonsense?

I think coercive control may have kept one in her place. I am not saying she didn’t know, but she probably could not go against him.

The MC story was obviously clouded by her shame at being involved in an affair with a married man with a young child. No way was she going to admit she did that.

Another question I’ve been thinking about… is it possible that the 3 actually knew each other and acted together in a “trio” initially. Maybe the affair happened ‘accidentally’ but MC and DdH had to pretend they didn’t know about each other until well after the affair so as to hide their criminal acquaintance with each other.
Not sure if this fits either, but something has always been off for me about MC and when I saw how close they lived, it seems more than just demonstrating risky behaviour.

All of this is my opinion only.

 

[CuriousKat99]

True. The latest MPMB page showing the short distance between where AKA and wife lived in relation to MC in order to highlight that AKA might be willing to take the risk of staying close to Marion.

To me this post makes it almost inconceivable that MC didn’t know AKAs marital status and that he had a young family living very closely by. Was the story about that phone kiosk a little white lie?

It’s relevant because in my experience (JMO) when someone tells a little white lie there are some big fat ones lurking in the background.

Also, he gave ER his home phone number, taking the risk of ER calling when he wasn’t there, which she ended up doing (even though both he and DdH allegedly didn’t even know ER existed). Maybe DdH was used to getting calls/visits from random females. He conducted his affair with JO very close to where he lived with his family too.

 

[CuriousKat99]

Just to expand on this, and something I was thinking about today… do we think it is possible that somehow RB has come to understand that Sally has reported her mum missing and has then contacted Sally and pretended to be a NSW police officer stating her mother was located/fine/didn’t want to be found by her family. Could this fit with the story? It would explain why there was no police records of that… notwithstanding that there was evidence of poor policing at the time…. Just a thought.

That’s always been in the back of my mind that it could have been him who called SL impersonating the police, telling her that her mother didn’t want to be found.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Also, he gave ER his home phone number, taking the risk of ER calling when he wasn’t there, which she ended up doing (even though both he and DdH allegedly didn’t even know ER existed). Maybe DdH was used to getting calls/visits from random females. He conducted his affair with JO very close to where he lived with his family too.

He certainly appears to have liked sailing close to the wind at times. Perhaps that’s the boat they were enquiring about?!!

 

[Brown Alleycat]

That’s always been in the back of my mind that it could have been him who called SL impersonating the police, telling her that her mother didn’t want to be found.

Would have thought his accent would have been obvious if he had called her himself. I am not sure if he could ditch the accent IMO.

 

[Bibno]

I know I’ve asked before but assuming as many do that Marion did return to Australia. If her life savings have been stolen (bar the amount shown in Barclays), with no house and no car what would a perpetrator do? You can’t leave her wandering alone in Australia hoping there’s no comeback. One phone call to her family and he would be exposed.

This is a very good point. We know he attempted to abandon JO in the UK, but unfortunately for him she returned before he could complete his plan. In that case he had only stolen jewellery and documents, which might not be immediately noticed. But in MB’s case he had her life savings.

 

[mishy66]

True. The latest MPMB page showing the short distance between where AKA and wife lived in relation to MC in order to highlight that AKA might be willing to take the risk of staying close to Marion.

To me this post makes it almost inconceivable that MC didn’t know AKAs marital status and that he had a young family living very closely by. Was the story about that phone kiosk a little white lie?

It’s relevant because in my experience (JMO) when someone tells a little white lie there are some big fat ones hiding in the background.

Yes and also remember she looked after a little boy "who looked just like Frederick/ Eric"

So IMO she knew he was married and it wasn't by a phone call. AS IF he was going to call his wife with MC standing there.