Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[Paul_Pry]

In the latest A Current Affair video piece from a couple of weeks ago it was mentioned that it was hard to get clues from the fire due to the sheer intensity of the blaze and the drone could possibly have been in the fire.

I think I remember some of you here had mentioned it looked like a very hot fire a while back in the thread.

(I'm having trouble finding the right link to the video I've mentioned, I will keep looking for it or if someone else can find it that would be great)

 

[Orgona]

It appears to me that it's possible that RH and CC were sitting on their chairs next to their table in front of their tent when something happened...creating microscopic evidence to splatter everywhere...which in turn resulted in their chairs, table and everything else close by to be heaped up on a bonfire. Even the scorched side of their truck seems suspect to me--perhaps, it was purposely burnt to destroy blood splatter evidence.

This too seems a possibility.
The scorched side of the truck looks to mee like the tent material was mounted on and fixed in those 2 lines onto the top and side of the truck and made those lines while burning. Admittedly this is simply a guess as I’m definitely a hotel kind of woman and would have no idea how a tent works and how and where that would be mounted on or fixed onto the truck....

ETA
I see someone has already addressed the question of the tent being fixed on the truck.

 

[SouthAussie]

In the latest A Current Affair video piece from a couple of weeks ago it was mentioned that it was hard to get clues from the fire due to the sheer intensity of the blaze and the drone could possibly have been in the fire.

I think I remember some of you here had mentioned it looked like a very hot fire a while back in the thread.

(I'm having trouble finding the right link to the video I've mentioned, I will keep looking for it or if someone else can find it that would be great)

In that Current Affair video I noticed a burned car battery sitting among the burned debris. I guess they were using that to charge their phones, and perhaps for power for the ham radio.

When looking at the condition of the battery, seems like it was a pretty intense fire.




Current Affair video, 15 June 2020:
Australia's Great High Country Mystery

 

[Kemug]

Is anyone (not me) willing to sacrifice their tent, camping furniture, etc by setting it alight to see what happens, and particularly how long it takes to burn out and then cool down?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Would anyone in imminent danger from another person or persons, set their own tent on fire to hopefully attract attention.

 

[SouthAussie]

Would anyone in imminent danger from another person or persons, set their own tent on fire to hopefully attract attention.

That is a very interesting thought ... and one that could be on the cards. imo

 

[bearbear]

IMO if there had been significant evidence in the tent, there would probably have been evidence outside the tent, because the couple were not found in the tent, they would have left a trail in leaving it. Also, it seems to me fire is a very random method of trying to get rid of forensic evidence in this circumstance. If you wanted to conceal evidence on the side of a vehicle, for eg, you would wipe it down, not set fire to something nearby.

It further strikes me, that arson is a very atypical crime. IMO it doesn't even occur to a petty thief to also set fire to something. They just want to get away from the scene. Arsonists are specifically wanting to destroy by fire, because of anger, or for thrills. Inside an Arsonist's Mind But if that were the case here, a tent is hardly satisfying to an arsonist when they could also set fire to the vehicle, or the forest.

I just can't currently see a link between the fire and the disappearances, and yet, how could it just have been pure coincidence?

but you dont have to be an arsonist to light a fire, this fire seems to me to have been a deliberately lit, controlled fire, possibly to hide evidence, especially if the person had left fingerprints or there was blood inside from a struggle

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I found a small charger for my phone today in a box. Plug in phone on one end, other end into electrical outlet. This is the first charger that almost burned my fingers as I grabbed it to disconnect it from the power source after some charging time. But, eternal optimistic that I am, I thought well, it was charging outside in 99 degree heat. So I bring it inside. It’s cooled off. Plug it back in. Several hours later, the dog is lying on top of it, and I thought, better remove it before he breaks it.
Hotter than before! Out it goes. It’s a definite fire hazard. FYI. It’s a black Nook plastic charger.
I’m now in the maybe a phone charger set the place on fire.

 

[Satchie]

Is anyone (not me) willing to sacrifice their tent, camping furniture, etc by setting it alight to see what happens, and particularly how long it takes to burn out and then cool down?

Also to test, how hard is it to burn down a tent? I'm pretty sure they're made of low flammable materials, just using a match wouldn't do it.

 

[Satchie]

Would anyone in imminent danger from another person or persons, set their own tent on fire to hopefully attract attention.

That's a very good point, fires tend to attract attention. IMO, no one could have predicted that the area would apparently be deserted. This is perhaps why I feel it's unlikely a fire would be deliberately set: it's risking that someone will come along and see you, or put out the fire before it has a chance to burn everything.

 

[Ramjet]

As I have said earlier I now believe the couple might have experienced a medical emergency during the night of 20th / 21st.
Russell might have had a severe heart turn and they needed to get him to a hospital.
I am suggesting that Carol summonsed the aid of a nearby camper to evacuate him back to Heyfield or Sale.
Maybe a good samaritan offered to do this and during the early hours they trekked back up Zeka and back along Howitt Plains Rd.
This meant a hurried lock down of the camp site. (and decamp by the samaritan)
The samaritan may have lost control of his vehicle in the dangerous conditions prevailing at night.
They may have opted to go direct to Sale rather than call for ambulance .. or... they may have intended to call for help from a suitable location.
Either way .. they all perished on that dangerous road.
I am thinking that eventually someone will report the samaritan missing and a connection might be made with this disappearance.
If this scenario is true we can expect a result in the coming months... eventually a crashed vehicle would be reported to be found.

 

[Kemug]

Harking back to Russell spending a weekend in the area just a week before the two of them went there for the last time - it has occurred to me that it may have just been for Russell to practise with his new drone. He couldn't really practise in suburbia, and his pride maybe didn't want Carol (or anyone else) to see him being less than competent. I have no idea how easy or hard it is to learn about and fly a drone, though possibly Russell found it more difficult than he would have in his youth. Ramjet, perhaps you could tell us how easy/difficult Russell might have found it?

 

[Tinker Taylor]

I
I’m now in the maybe a phone charger set the place on fire.

Or the recharger/battery of the drone?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

That is a very good theory.
Not hoping that they're dead of course, but hoping an answer will be found for their family and friends.

As I have said earlier I now believe the couple might have experienced a medical emergency during the night of 20th / 21st.
Russell might have had a severe heart turn and they needed to get him to a hospital.
I am suggesting that Carol summonsed the aid of a nearby camper to evacuate him back to Heyfield or Sale.
Maybe a good samaritan offered to do this and during the early hours they trekked back up Zeka and back along Howitt Plains Rd.
This meant a hurried lock down of the camp site. (and decamp by the samaritan)
The samaritan may have lost control of his vehicle in the dangerous conditions prevailing at night.
They may have opted to go direct to Sale rather than call for ambulance .. or... they may have intended to call for help from a suitable location.
Either way .. they all perished on that dangerous road.
I am thinking that eventually someone will report the samaritan missing and a connection might be made with this disappearance.
If this scenario is true we can expect a result in the coming months... eventually a crashed vehicle would be reported to be found.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

One of my thoughts was that a fire in the tent started by accident, burning their legs very badly. They ran off in a panic to find some water nearby, a river, or dam or a tank to jump into but were overcome with their injuries and drowned. If a river they were taken away by the current.

 

[SouthAussie]

Harking back to Russell spending a weekend in the area just a week before the two of them went there for the last time - it has occurred to me that it may have just been for Russell to practise with his new drone. He couldn't really practise in suburbia, and his pride maybe didn't want Carol (or anyone else) to see him being less than competent. I have no idea how easy or hard it is to learn about and fly a drone, though possibly Russell found it more difficult than he would have in his youth. Ramjet, perhaps you could tell us how easy/difficult Russell might have found it?

Thanks for bringing this up, Kemug.

I just read an amusing article by a novice drone user. One thing that stood out to me is how difficult a drone is to navigate when the GPS is turned off.



"Then Sion asked me to turn the GPS off. This is something that crops up on your final test, and he wanted me to experience it. That's when it got tricky.

Even though there wasn't much wind, the drone was immediately pushed towards the busy road. Admittedly, the road in question was quite a long way away - well within safe limits - and the drone only drifted about 10 metres, but it was enough for me to imagine causing a massive, catastrophic pile-up.

I didn't have the courage to fly without GPS for long. After no more than a few seconds I switched it back on and the drone quickly stabilised.

That's the dilemma with drones. Features such as GPS mean a relatively inexperienced person can fly them much more easily than, say, a radio-controlled helicopter. But the GPS signal can fail, or there could be some other kind of malfunction, causing an inexperienced pilot to lose control.

If you want to see what can happen, type "drone fly away" into YouTube and you'll find countless videos of them flying off and crashing for no apparent reason."

How easy is it to fly a drone safely?

 

[Ramjet]

One of my thoughts was that a fire in the tent started by accident, burning their legs very badly. They ran off in a panic to find some water nearby, a river, or dam or a tank to jump into but were overcome with their injuries and drowned. If a river they were taken away by the current.

The river was very low... you couldn't drown.. You can step across to the other side without getting wet feet.

 

[Panda]

As I have said earlier I now believe the couple might have experienced a medical emergency during the night of 20th / 21st.
Russell might have had a severe heart turn and they needed to get him to a hospital.
I am suggesting that Carol summonsed the aid of a nearby camper to evacuate him back to Heyfield or Sale.
Maybe a good samaritan offered to do this and during the early hours they trekked back up Zeka and back along Howitt Plains Rd.
This meant a hurried lock down of the camp site. (and decamp by the samaritan)
The samaritan may have lost control of his vehicle in the dangerous conditions prevailing at night.
They may have opted to go direct to Sale rather than call for ambulance .. or... they may have intended to call for help from a suitable location.
Either way .. they all perished on that dangerous road.
I am thinking that eventually someone will report the samaritan missing and a connection might be made with this disappearance.
If this scenario is true we can expect a result in the coming months... eventually a crashed vehicle would be reported to be found.

An unlikely scenario in my opinion. I would have thought the "good samaritan" would have been reported missing by now, given the time that has elapsed.

 

[Ramjet]

Thanks for bringing this up, Kemug.

I just read an amusing article by a novice drone user. One thing that stood out to me is how difficult a drone is to navigate when the GPS is turned off.



"Then Sion asked me to turn the GPS off. This is something that crops up on your final test, and he wanted me to experience it. That's when it got tricky.

Even though there wasn't much wind, the drone was immediately pushed towards the busy road. Admittedly, the road in question was quite a long way away - well within safe limits - and the drone only drifted about 10 metres, but it was enough for me to imagine causing a massive, catastrophic pile-up.

I didn't have the courage to fly without GPS for long. After no more than a few seconds I switched it back on and the drone quickly stabilised.

That's the dilemma with drones. Features such as GPS mean a relatively inexperienced person can fly them much more easily than, say, a radio-controlled helicopter. But the GPS signal can fail, or there could be some other kind of malfunction, causing an inexperienced pilot to lose control.

If you want to see what can happen, type "drone fly away" into YouTube and you'll find countless videos of them flying off and crashing for no apparent reason."

How easy is it to fly a drone safely?

'Fly aways' are a thing of the past.
Russell had a DJI Mavic Pro which uses the DJI proprietary control system .. not subject to interference from WiFi sources.
Also DJI have ironed out all the firmware bugs that plague cheaper units.
With all the features enabled it is *not* easy to crash ... even in dense urban settings.
As I described earlier it is possible to lose the craft in long range excursions.
There is plenty of opportunity to test the limits of this drone in the environment of this valley.
Being a radio ham means he would likely have an interest in testing these limits.

 

[Ramjet]

An unlikely scenario in my opinion. I would have thought the "good samaritan" would have been reported missing by now, given the time that has elapsed.

Plenty of nomads doing the 'long trek' in their kitted out 4X4's. ... Report back home every once in awhile.
It's more likely someone will stumble on a wrecked vehicle .. but even that could take many months