Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[TootsieFootsie]

It's not everybody who keeps in regular contact with other people.
Some people like to live a more or less life alone, rather than having to report in on a regular basis to anyone.
So it's not out of the question that such a person if they did go missing, would not have anyone who notices their absence.

 

[Lee421]

This is a guess,based on what I know,while cutting down on speculation,and possible scenarios,with some main points in place,the police may know more than there telling,obviously.Here goes-Didn’t Russ report that he was having radio issues to someone?Camp got setup,I presume they wouldnt use the drone that night or sleep with the drone,so it would have been in the car,safe kind of spot.Thats where I,d put it.The mobiles probably in the tent where their sleeping.(is there reception out there?).I mean where else would u have them.Carols belongings found in the car.(which ones?),(where’s Rusty’s wallet and keys?)The fire very neatly done.Possibly misadventure,I,m leaning towards a controlled burn given the possible circumstances.Somebody waited till it was properly done,I’d believe.(waiting seems risky and a weird thing to play out)but there’s a reason for that fire.They disappear,Mobiles and Drone Gone.Rustys Wallet and Keys gone(could be incorrect).I mean those things weren’t in the fire or found elsewhere,were they?I think that overthinking this could give the wrong conclusion.Now here’s some points,Why would a robber killer take mobile phones,truth is,they most likely wouldn’t,they maybe traceable.Why not just take out the battery an throw em in the fire?Why take the phones for a ride couldve destroyed them there,the camp burnt up looked bad enuf,maybe it was decided after handling them to rid em elsewhere.No talk of the phones leaving there camp.Were the phones off?When we’re they switched off?If stealing a Drone,money would’ve been taken too,untraceable,a thief is a crook,Wasn’t Carols belongings in the car.(anything missing who knows)But Rusty’s Wallet And Keys have taken a walk I red somewhere.(Maybe incorrect).Even if something went down at the campsite,with the Drone,Phones,Rusty’s Keys and Wallet being on the table,or in ones possession theres still things that don’t add up.Even stealing this Drone risks perps getting caught.Couldve stolen it without abduction and murder.If robbery was the reason for all this.Based on this particular line of scarce information.I see there’s some things which don’t fit the MO of perpetrators.And this kind of random thing just doesn’t occur in Australia,it’s very rare indeed.Which leaves other seemingly unlikely reasons for all this as well.That may not be impossible.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

This is a guess,based on what I know,while cutting down on speculation,and possible scenarios,with some main points in place,the police may know more than there telling,obviously.Here goes-Didn’t Russ report that he was having radio issues to someone?Camp got setup,I presume they wouldnt use the drone that night or sleep with the drone,so it would have been in the car,safe kind of spot.Thats where I,d put it.The mobiles probably in the tent where their sleeping.(is there reception out there?).I mean where else would u have them.Carols belongings found in the car.(which ones?),(where’s Rusty’s wallet and keys?)The fire very neatly done.Possibly natural,I,m leaning towards a controlled burn given the circumstance.Somebody waited till it was properly done,I’d believe.(waiting seems risky and a weird thing to play out)They disappear,Mobiles and Drone Gone.Rustys Wallet and Keys gone(could be incorrect).I mean those things weren’t in the fire were they?I think that overthinking this could give the wrong conclusion.Now here’s some points,Why would a robber killer take mobile phones,truth is,they most likely wouldn’t,they maybe traceable.And Carol An Rusty would’ve been checked for such a thing.Why not just throw em in the fire?No talk of the phones leaving there camp.They were switched off at some time then.If stealing a Drone,money would’ve been taken too,untraceable,a thief is a crook,Wasn’t Carols belongings in the car.(anything missing who knows)But Rusty’s Wallet And Keys had taken a walk I red somewhere.(Maybe incorrect).Even if something went down at the campsite,with the Drone,Phones,Rusty’s Keys and Wallet being on the table,or in ones possession theres still things that don’t add up.Even stealing this Drone risks perps getting caught.Couldve stolen it without abduction and murder.If that was the reason for all this.Based on this particular line of scarce information.I see there’s some things which don’t fit the MO of perpetrators.And this kind of random thing just doesn’t occur in Australia,it’s very rare indeed.Which leaves 2 other options both seemingly unlikely as well.But not impossible.

In the USA we have this little chip thing from Lo-Jack. Used to be about $500.00. Placed in cars, trucks high dollar items that you want to find if taken. A $2500.00 drone is not cheap. I’d think about adding the Lo-Jack “insurance” to it. I just don’t know if it could be hidden without detection in such a small thing.

ETA: laptops protected with these things. Hmmm. Modern technology.

 

[Paul_Pry]

Which leaves 2 other options both seemingly unlikely as well.But not impossible.

Hi Lee I like your analysis so far. I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the 2 other options as well

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Sorry you've lost me. Who is this Rusty ?

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Sorry you've lost me. Who is this Rusty ?

Russell? Isn’t that Mr.Hill’s name? Nickname?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Oh right. Thanks. No I've never seen him called that but maybe I missed an article. It's quite possible.

 

[neesaki]

I found a small charger for my phone today in a box. Plug in phone on one end, other end into electrical outlet. This is the first charger that almost burned my fingers as I grabbed it to disconnect it from the power source after some charging time. But, eternal optimistic that I am, I thought well, it was charging outside in 99 degree heat. So I bring it inside. It’s cooled off. Plug it back in. Several hours later, the dog is lying on top of it, and I thought, better remove it before he breaks it.
Hotter than before! Out it goes. It’s a definite fire hazard. FYI. It’s a black Nook plastic charger.
I’m now in the maybe a phone charger set the place on fire.

Wasn’t it phone chargers that caused the boat fire killing a lot of people in California last year?
Going to make a point to check mine out.

 

[Lee421]

My first post was Not completed ran out of time this is what I was working towards.This is a guess,based on what I know,while cutting down on speculation,and possible scenarios,with some main points in place,the police may know more than there telling,obviously.Here goes-Didn’t Russell report that he was having radio issues to someone?Camp got setup,I presume they wouldnt use the drone that night or sleep with the drone,so it would have been in the car,safe kind of spot.Thats where I,d put it.The mobiles probably in the tent where their sleeping.(is there reception out there?).I mean where else would u have them.Carols belongings found in the car.(which ones?),(where’s Russells wallet and keys?)The fire very neatly done.Possibly misadventure,I,m leaning towards a controlled burn given the possible circumstances.Somebody waited till it was properly done,I’d believe.(waiting seems risky and a weird thing to play out)but there’s a reason for that fire,and of course a time for it.They disappear,Mobiles and Drone Gone.Russells Wallet and Keys gone(could be incorrect).I mean those things weren’t in the fire or found elsewhere,were they?I think that overthinking this could give the wrong conclusion.Now here’s some points,Why would a robber killer take mobile phones,truth is,they most likely wouldn’t,they maybe traceable.Why not just take out the battery an throw em in the fire?Why take the phones for a ride couldve destroyed them there,the camp burnt up looked bad enuf,maybe it was decided after handling them to rid em elsewhere.No talk of the phones leaving there camp.Were the phones off?When we’re they switched off?If stealing a Drone,money would’ve been taken too,untraceable,a thief is a crook,Wasn’t Carols belongings in the car.(anything missing who knows)But Russells Wallet And Keys have taken a walk I red somewhere.(Maybe incorrect).Even if something went down at the campsite,with the Drone,Phones,Russells Keys and Wallet being on the table,or in ones possession theres still things that don’t add up.Even stealing this Drone risks perps getting caught.Couldve stolen it without abduction and murder.If robbery was the reason for all this.Maybe Russell was forced to retrieve the drone from the vehicle,and anything else of value,but left Carols belongings in there to despite the crim.Off course this all could of started out as a friendly encounter and then it turned ugly.Which May explain some things.And if a criminal act took place there may have been a effort to leave no DNA.Still it’s hard to believe this all happened over a robbery.Theres scarce information.And this kind of random thing just doesn’t occur in Australia,it’s very rare indeed.Which leaves other reasons for all this as well.That may not be impossible.

 

[Lee421]

Hi Lee I like your analysis so far. I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the 2 other options as well

Ok i,ll reply soon,I updated my post with a new one as I ran out of time to complete it because of the 60 min limit I wasn’t aware off.Its down a few posts after my original one.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

Something just struck me about this. I'm not sure about Russell's previous work, except he was a logger in the 80's and on LinkedIn he is described as a labourer. So it seems to me that he didn't rise up the ladder too far and most of his work has been on the lower pay scale. I now assume he is retired at 74yo.

He has a fairly expensive vehicle, "tricked out" with lots of camping gear. This was commented on by his friends.

Then he spends $2,000 on a drone, basically a toy to play with while he is camping??

Does anyone else see something that doesn't add up?

 

[Ramjet]

Something just struck me about this. I'm not sure about Russell's previous work, except he was a logger in the 80's and on LinkedIn he is described as a labourer. So it seems to me that he didn't rise up the ladder too far and most of his work has been on the lower pay scale. I now assume he is retired at 74yo.

He has a fairly expensive vehicle, "tricked out" with lots of camping gear. This was commented on by his friends.

Then he spends $2,000 on a drone, basically a toy to play with while he is camping??

Does anyone else see something that doesn't add up?

LinkedIn is a secure platform .. how did you confirm it is RH from Druin Australia?
And ... wish I earned what a builder's labourer earned

 

[Lee421]

Hi Lee I like your analysis so far. I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the 2 other options as well

Ok well at first I thought 3 major possibilities,but now just 2.The first foul play,the second a crime of passion murder sorry to say.Crimes of passion occur now and then here,not common a bit rare.Most murders in modern Australia are committed by somebody that’s known to the deceased,99%And most get caught.There have been a some Stranger murders,wrong place wrong time scenarios,robbery and rape types,from recollection mostly all caught,some king hit deaths all caught,im talking the last 20yrs.Of course a missing persons list doesn’t mean all murdered.The lists are small really compared to USA or UK standards.Suicide is high in Australia.Of course there’s next to nothing on a camping trip gone murder.Traditionally a safe pursuit in oz.We can’t know what’s being said between them.So I think something may have happened at night between them,maybe on her phone something found or he just wanted to do this for his own reason.She was a attractive vibrant woman I believe,so Maybe seeing other man.Maybe this was her last time camping and she,d wanted to stop,for awhile or permanently.He decided that she was to be his forever up there.And took action to keep her for himself.Of course he buried her up there somewhere.May have prepared earlier site,as he was up that way earlier.The burning of the campsite is a symbolic act of whatever’s going on in his mind.Or some evidence had to be destroyed.After that he walked deep into the wilderness with his keys,wallet,drone,and whatever else.And ended it all.He,s further away than the search area.Why not drive away somewhere else u say,because of his attachment to the area,he wouldn’t.Its was also where he and her are together.This explains why the phones are missing,and switched off,so his movements couldn’t be traced.Its very neat and secretive,and the place to do this.

 

[Kemug]

Something just struck me about this. I'm not sure about Russell's previous work, except he was a logger in the 80's and on LinkedIn he is described as a labourer. So it seems to me that he didn't rise up the ladder too far and most of his work has been on the lower pay scale. I now assume he is retired at 74yo.

He has a fairly expensive vehicle, "tricked out" with lots of camping gear. This was commented on by his friends.

Then he spends $2,000 on a drone, basically a toy to play with while he is camping??

Does anyone else see something that doesn't add up?

No, because he may have inherited from parents, siblings, aunts and uncles, etc.

 

[Kemug]

Ok well at first I thought 3 major possibilities,but now just 2.The first foul play,the second a crime of passion murder sorry to say.Crimes of passion occur now and then here,not common a bit rare.Most murders in modern Australia are committed by somebody that’s known to the deceased,99%And most get caught.There have been a some Stranger murders,wrong place wrong time scenarios,robbery and rape types,from recollection mostly all caught,some king hit deaths all caught,im talking the last 20yrs.Of course a missing persons list doesn’t mean all murdered.The lists are small really compared to USA or UK standards.Suicide is high in Australia.Of course there’s next to nothing on a camping trip gone murder.Traditionally a safe pursuit in oz.We can’t know what’s being said between them.So I think something may have happened at night between them,maybe on her phone something found or he just wanted to do this for his own reason.She was a attractive vibrant woman I believe,so Maybe seeing other man.Maybe this was her last time camping and she,d wanted to stop,for awhile or permanently.He decided that she was to be his forever up there.And took action to keep her for himself.Of course he buried her up there somewhere.May have prepared earlier site,as he was up that way earlier.The burning of the campsite is a symbolic act of whatever’s going on in his mind.Or some evidence had to be destroyed.After that he walked deep into the wilderness with his keys,wallet,drone,and whatever else.And ended it all.He,s further away than the search area.Why not drive away somewhere else u say,because of his attachment to the area,he wouldn’t.Its was also where he and her are together.This explains why the phones are missing,and switched off,so his movements couldn’t be traced.Its very neat and secretive,and the place to do this.

Sorry, but I just can't see this happening. I'm not sure why, except that Australians in their 70's are seldom so dramatic in my experience. In my opinion.

 

[Ramjet]

It is *very* unlikely that this a homicide. (read my previous posts)
I would be extremely disappointed if I was at risk from visiting my favourite wilderness area.

 

[Ramjet]

This is a guess,based on what I know,while cutting down on speculation,and possible scenarios,with some main points in place,the police may know more than there telling,obviously.Here goes-Didn’t Russ report that he was having radio issues to someone?Camp got setup,I presume they wouldnt use the drone that night or sleep with the drone,so it would have been in the car,safe kind of spot.Thats where I,d put it.The mobiles probably in the tent where their sleeping.(is there reception out there?).I mean where else would u have them.Carols belongings found in the car.(which ones?),(where’s Rusty’s wallet and keys?)The fire very neatly done.Possibly misadventure,I,m leaning towards a controlled burn given the possible circumstances.Somebody waited till it was properly done,I’d believe.(waiting seems risky and a weird thing to play out)but there’s a reason for that fire.They disappear,Mobiles and Drone Gone.Rustys Wallet and Keys gone(could be incorrect).I mean those things weren’t in the fire or found elsewhere,were they?I think that overthinking this could give the wrong conclusion.Now here’s some points,Why would a robber killer take mobile phones,truth is,they most likely wouldn’t,they maybe traceable.Why not just take out the battery an throw em in the fire?Why take the phones for a ride couldve destroyed them there,the camp burnt up looked bad enuf,maybe it was decided after handling them to rid em elsewhere.No talk of the phones leaving there camp.Were the phones off?When we’re they switched off?If stealing a Drone,money would’ve been taken too,untraceable,a thief is a crook,Wasn’t Carols belongings in the car.(anything missing who knows)But Rusty’s Wallet And Keys have taken a walk I red somewhere.(Maybe incorrect).Even if something went down at the campsite,with the Drone,Phones,Rusty’s Keys and Wallet being on the table,or in ones possession theres still things that don’t add up.Even stealing this Drone risks perps getting caught.Couldve stolen it without abduction and murder.If robbery was the reason for all this.Based on this particular line of scarce information.I see there’s some things which don’t fit the MO of perpetrators.And this kind of random thing just doesn’t occur in Australia,it’s very rare indeed.Which leaves other seemingly unlikely reasons for all this as well.That may not be impossible.

I suggest you read the previous posts and catch up on your knowledge before bloating the thread...

 

[Panda]

No, because he may have inherited from parents, siblings, aunts and uncles, etc.

Apart from which, you don't know how much Super he accumulated. He may have lived quite frugally so that he could afford little luxuries now and then. It's not beyond the realms of possibility to afford a drone or a vehicle well kitted out for 4WD'ing if you plan for it and have money set aside. And we don't know how much his wife contributed. She may have worked during their marriage - she could have had a job paying more than him for all we know, or they could have another property that they receive income from by renting it out, or they may have had some sort of business on the side. Being a logger, he may have sold firewood for cash. Who knows? The point is, there's nothing suspicious about him having a four wheel drive vehicle set up well or a new drone at his age. It's not like he was on the dole his whole life.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Please could you use some paragraphs. I'm finding it impossible to read without them.

My first post was Not completed

 

[SouthAussie]

I really would like to know if life was going to go on as usual for Russell and Carol. Maintaining a relatively discreet relationship.
Or if there was going to be some kind of change - perhaps them moving in together.

It is nothing that we would know, but it may be something that the police now know. I feel that the police will now have retrieved everything they possibly can from the telecomms companies.