Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #7

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SouthAussie said:
Russell also told some other campers/hunters the previous week about the hunting accident in which someone close to Russell was killed. These campers/hunters were camped right alongside Russell. They said he was a great bloke.

I can completely understand having an aversion to guns being fired near a campground. I think I would find that very scary.
On some hunting forums I have read, they say it is really bad etiquette to do so.

IIRC there was talk about the number of deer carcasses from deer that had been killed close to the camp - when they were initially searching for Carol & Russell. Not as a pile of deer carcasses, but one every 50 metres or so.

imo


"On Wednesday, the court heard from deer hunters who met Hill while camping at King Billy No 2, a site near Mount Buller, on 12 March 2020.
Hill told them about the accidental shooting death ....."

www.theguardian.com

Greg Lynn trial: Russell Hill and Carol Clay in ‘loving relationship’ before alleged murder

Witnesses are giving evidence in trial of airline pilot who has pleaded not guilty to murdering Hill and Clay
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

I have no doubt this story about Hills aversions to guns and being safety conscious about them is absolutely true.

My point is, even Lynn says this story is true. Lynn verifies the other witnesses accounts that Hill lost someone to a gun and so was a stickler for the rules. And yet by the same token, Lynn is claiming that Hill removed a loaded gun from a strangers vehicle? That makes no sense.

Hill would be well aware how dangerous that is. If Hill was so concerned he wouldn’t take the man’s gun and go back to his campsite and finish his camping trip and then take the gun to the police.

If Hill was really concerned that Lynn was breaking the law, he’d either take photographic evidence of the guns or call police on his radio or get out of there.

I don’t think anyone would remove a gun from someone’s car, but especially not a man who was acutely aware of gun safety.

Also why remove one gun and not the rest?
 
SouthAussie said:
"Hill had his finger on the trigger during the struggle, according to the account Lynn gave police"

"Lynn told police that Hill then came at him with a knife, screaming “she’s dead”.
"There was another struggle that saw the knife go through the chest of Hill while they were on the ground, Lynn told police."
Click to expand...
Hmm Ok. Feels like its almost splitting hairs. So he is claiming the deaths were pure accidents completely. Interesting.
 
Awakening said:
My point is, even Lynn says this story is true. Lynn verifies the other witnesses accounts that Hill lost someone to a gun and so was a stickler for the rules. And yet by the same token, Lynn is claiming that Hill removed a loaded gun from a strangers vehicle? That makes no sense.
Click to expand...

I think confiscating a dangerous weapon makes sense. It happens all the time.
 
discostu said:
Wondering if this is the accidental hunting death that Russell was referring to in these stories? Looks like it happened back in the 90s but the surname is the same - could have been his brother or a cousin maybe? Shot by his his nephew who was a professional shooter. :(

Widow's despair over park shooting
Click to expand...
I can ask around the family if this was it or not, not guaranteed an answer but I can try.
 
Awakening said:
If Hill was really concerned that Lynn was breaking the law, he’d either take photographic evidence of the guns or call police on his radio or get out of there.
Click to expand...

From what I'm reading, it seems that Hill possibly captured Lynn in the act of using his firearm on video via his drone (and I guess may well have planned to give that to police).

However, it seems that Lynn tracked Hill down and confronted him. We have read here that Hill was not a person 'to back down' and I gather that Lynn was used to getting his own way so, if true, that combination of personalities would rather quickly generate friction to say the least.
 
mirage1 said:
I think confiscating a dangerous weapon makes sense. It happens all the time.
Click to expand...

I disagree, but let’s say that’s what happened.

Then Hill - in the dark - waves the gun around with his finger on the trigger despite him being concerned about gun safety. If he earlier confiscated the gun because he was so concerned this behaviour doesn’t match.

Lynn has approached the campsite to get his gun back and rather than simply handing it back, Hill refuses and waves it around? Lynn says he was scared sh!tless and took cover before trying to wrestle the gun off elderly Hill.

All of this seems very incongruous to me especially with Carol there.

But let’s say all of that is true. We only have Lynn’s word for this because the other two were “accidentally” killed.

But then Hill, the one who confiscated the gun because he was concerned about someone being killed due to it happening to him previously, continues to wrestle with this younger man, keeping his finger on the trigger and then accidentally pulling the trigger.

It defies belief.

Except it gets even more unbelievable.

The bullet/slug/whatever ricochets off the cars side mirror and directly into Carol’s head.

I’m not a gun expert, but shooting someone directly in the head from a distance is not easy. Yet this happened accidentally after rebounding off a mirror.

At this point the story is ridiculous, and we haven’t even got to the knife fight yet.
 
JBowie said:
From what I'm reading, it seems that Hill possibly captured Lynn in the act of using his firearm on video via his drone and may well have planned to give that to police.

However, it seems that Lynn tracked Hill down and confronted him. We have read here that Hill was not a person 'to back down' and I gather that Lynn was used to getting his own way so, if true, that combination of personalities would rather quickly generate friction to say the least.
Click to expand...

I’m sure we will hear more about both men’s characters and personalities over the trial.

So far we just have the defences side and witnesses who didn’t know Hill but had encountered him, and it seems they are painting a picture of a grumpy old man.

We haven’t heard about Lynn yet. Perhaps there will be witnesses that also describe him as a grumpy old man.

Perhaps we will also hear positive things about Hill and Lynn’s personalities.

Rarely, are people all bad or all good.

We are all prone to bad moods and grumpiness. Some more than others. Hill reportedly had a lot of friends so they would be better placed to comment on his temperament then someone who encounter him once.

But for arguments sake, let’s say Hill was a grumpy old fellow. Annoying, arrogant, rude, stubborn. Theres a difference between someone like that, and the unhinged out of control man that Lynn is describing.

My father also will not back down on an argument. Stubborn as a bull. Will not give in. He’s in the right, you are wrong.

But, on the odd occasion he’s come across someone who is clearly not quite right, becoming more aggressive or it’s starting to get physical, my father is not stupid. My dad is 73. In these situations he has then walked away or defused the situation. Might have been different in his younger years. I suspect Hill was similar.
 
JBowie said:
From what I'm reading, it seems that Hill possibly captured Lynn in the act of using his firearm on video via his drone (and I guess may well have planned to give that to police).

However, it seems that Lynn tracked Hill down and confronted him. We have read here that Hill was not a person 'to back down' and I gather that Lynn was used to getting his own way so, if true, that combination of personalities would rather quickly generate friction to say the least.
Click to expand...
Ive seen a few posts in various places from people who claim to know Lynn and they all describe him as a difficult character so it sounds like it was a perfect storm for conflict to occur. You would still expect better from men their age.
 
Awakening said:
I disagree, but let’s say that’s what happened.

Then Hill - in the dark - waves the gun around with his finger on the trigger despite him being concerned about gun safety. If he earlier confiscated the gun because he was so concerned this behaviour doesn’t match.

Lynn has approached the campsite to get his gun back and rather than simply handing it back, Hill refuses and waves it around? Lynn says he was scared sh!tless and took cover before trying to wrestle the gun off elderly Hill.

All of this seems very incongruous to me especially with Carol there.
Click to expand...

Even a dishonest story can have parts mixed with truth, its pretty common. The true part could be Hill did confiscate the gun which kicked off the conflict. if you don't trust someone with a gun, confiscating it makes logical sense. The claim of him being the trigger man could all be bs. Lynn could have tried to get the gun back and Hill tried to stop him with the knife and then Lynn stabbed him with it. What is your theory on what went down?
 
www.theage.com.au

Broken love pact at centre of missing campers’ long affair

A Supreme Court jury has been taken inside the long-term affair between Russell Hill and Carol Clay .
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au

This article seems to say that a friend contacted Russell's wife when Russell didn't meet him at a camp site, and should be reported missing. According to him, Russell's wife then asked him if Russell was camping with Carol Clay.

Behind a paywall, I think. Posting it here for those who subscribe.
 
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discostu said:
Wondering if this is the accidental hunting death that Russell was referring to in these stories? Looks like it happened back in the 90s but the surname is the same - could have been his brother or a cousin maybe? Shot by his his nephew who was a professional shooter. :(

Widow's despair over park shooting
Click to expand...
I've just confirmed with my dad that this is in fact it. Gary Allen is right there in our family tree and his wife Rosalyn as referenced in the article, died September '94.
He was indeed Russell's first cousin.
Good sleuthing discostu. We didn't even know about it!
 
mirage1 said:
Even a dishonest story can have parts mixed with truth, its pretty common. The true part could be Hill did confiscate the gun which kicked off the conflict. if you don't trust someone with a gun, confiscating it makes logical sense. The claim of him being the trigger man could all be bs. Lynn could have tried to get the gun back and Hill tried to stop him with the knife and then Lynn stabbed him with it. What is your theory on what went down?
Click to expand...

I agree, that he’s likely mixed truth in with his lies.

I don’t know what happened exactly. I’m curious to see what the prosecution comes up with.

I think it’s likely there was an argument, possibly more than one disagreement.

I believe Russell would have moved on from the argument and wanted to get on with his camping trip particularly with Carol there. I imagine Carol wouldn’t be keen on the argument continuing.

Perhaps Russell felt he won the argument by having footage of Lynn and possible illegal hunting activities? I don’t know.

But I think it was Greg who was the unhinged angry one. That he was furious over the disagreement and could not and would not let it go.

Maybe he was afraid that whatever footage Hill might have collected would get him into serious trouble and that would effect his job?

This was at a time in the pandemic where flights were grounded and people were losing their jobs. It would have been a stressful time for Lynn. This disagreement could have been the final straw that lit his fuse.

Hill - one to not back down from an argument - is angry at Lynn’s music and comes over to Lynn’s campsite to have another go at him.

A fist fight ensues and Lynn knifes Hill killing him. Lynn knows Carol is a witness and decides to kill her too, and it’s Lynn that gets the gun out of his car.

Carol sees him approaching with his gun, Lynn shoots and misses, Carol runs, taking cover behind their car. Lynn shoots again hitting the side mirror before locating a cowering Carol and shoots her in the head. (Lynn’s story about shooting the gun in the air to empty the gun after removing it from Hill, might be something Lynn came up with in case a witness heard the gunshots).

All my opinion only. Pure speculation and I’m interested to see if the prosecution had a similar theory.
 
We have a story that in some parts seem possible (not impossible), which was to be expected. GL had months to work it out.

The prosecution will have all sorts of circumstantial evidence to present but don't exactly know what the motive was or how the events unfolded.

They will however, have plausible evidence that supports the charge of the killings being intentional....in their belief, beyond reasonable doubt.
 
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We always "knew" there must have been a confrontation, due to some issues between the two parties, but it seems very unlikely that there were 2 accidental killings. But if there were, why the effort to completely obliterate their bodies? GL could just have left their bodies some distance away from the scene, and made sure that no clues pointed to him. Surely such "overkill" was unnecessary.
 
TootsieFootsie said:
www.theage.com.au

Broken love pact at centre of missing campers’ long affair

A Supreme Court jury has been taken inside the long-term affair between Russell Hill and Carol Clay .
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au

This article seems to say that a friend contacted Russell's wife when Russell didn't meet him at a camp site, and should be reported missing. According to him, Russell's wife then asked him if Russell was camping with Carol Clay.

Behind a paywall, I think. Posting it here for those who subscribe.
Click to expand...
Close but not quite right.... Rob (his friend) contacted Robyn (Russell's wife) on Thursday after we had not heard Russell on our usual radio net since the previous Friday night(March 20th) saying that he thought she should report him missing to the police
 
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