Found Deceased Australia - Sanaya Sahib, 15 mos, Heidelberg West, Vic, 9 April 2016 *Arrest*

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PainExpress said:
Good rant.

But I'd also say that it's more outrageous that more people are still dying of hunger and from water borne disease.

If you cancelled your Internet subscription, your pay tv and possibly the gym membership you'd have enough funds to feed and educate a whole village.

Go without that takeaway cappuccino a few times a week and you can pay a girls school fee's for a year.

We all make choices about what we care about. Right or wrong but it is human to do so.
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Thankyou, and yes we can all do our bit to help others for sure.
 
Karinna said:
I am wondering if the mother is an Australian citizen? What financial support did she have to raise her infant? If in fact she is not an Australian citizen she would not have been entitled to any C/Link benefits for parenting allowance etc, and probably had to rely on help from her family or child support from her husband? If she was working or able to work in Australia then not sure if she had a job though to support herself and her child?
I wonder if she missed her home in Fiji and with an arranged marriage she had no choice in the matter until she arrived in Australia and was forced into such a relationship, and then realised Australia was a much more liberal thinking country? I didn't even know australia was okay with people in arranged marriages and to allow immigration for a foreign citizen for that purpose, so that was a bit of a shock to find out.
I think it was stated by her uncle that her marriage was an acrimonious one.
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BBM for focus.

I just wanted to offer some clarification on the arranged marriage aspect (I speak from 2 perspectives, an immigration lawyer and a member of a culture that still practices arranged marriages, Sikh/Punjabi. )

From a Punjabi/Sikh perspective; arranged marriages in this day and age arent as archaic or forceful or even so much as a business deal as they once may have been. It is essentially 2 families coming together and finding common ground to unite their respective children in matrimony, based on compatibility factors: Age, socio economic background, education, religion, etc. Many times (and this is in response to someone elses posts about the rights of the woman being taken away - I am new to all of this posting so still trying to figure out posting logistics - but many times the prospective bride and groom do meet and do have a say in whether or not they want to marry the person. In my 10 years in assisting marriage based immigration, I can cite many cases of successful arranged marriages, that dont infringe upon anyone's rights.

2nd from an immigration point of view - many countries continue to practice Arranged Marriages and governments of Canada, US, Australia, UK and so forth (western nations) accept these marriages as bona fide. Bona fides and genuine marriage as opposed to marriages of convenience (ie. for immigration or some other benefit under the immigration act) being the threshold test for marriage applications and sponsorships..
 
Riice said:
BBM for focus.

I just wanted to offer some clarification on the arranged marriage aspect (I speak from 2 perspectives, an immigration lawyer and a member of a culture that still practices arranged marriages, Sikh/Punjabi. )

From a Punjabi/Sikh perspective; arranged marriages in this day and age arent as archaic or forceful or even so much as a business deal as they once may have been. It is essentially 2 families coming together and finding common ground to unite their respective children in matrimony, based on compatibility factors: Age, socio economic background, education, religion, etc. Many times (and this is in response to someone elses posts about the rights of the woman being taken away - I am new to all of this posting so still trying to figure out posting logistics - but many times the prospective bride and groom do meet and do have a say in whether or not they want to marry the person. In my 10 years in assisting marriage based immigration, I can cite many cases of successful arranged marriages, that dont infringe upon anyone's rights.

2nd from an immigration point of view - many countries continue to practice Arranged Marriages and governments of Canada, US, Australia, UK and so forth (western nations) accept these marriages as bona fide. Bona fides and genuine marriage as opposed to marriages of convenience (ie. for immigration or some other benefit under the immigration act) being the threshold test for marriage applications and sponsorships..
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Welcome Riice. Thank you for this helpful information. :welcome:
 
PrimeSuspect said:
Thank you for the link, very interesting and unfortunately, disturbing too.

In the case of the Port Lincoln murder/suicide, there was a lot more sympathy for the father than I've ever seen before after similar tragedies, but I think this was due to his wife, who did not condemn him, at least not publicly. How can the public say otherwise when she declared he loved his children and he had suffered for quite some time from a mental illness? Usually such sentiments of the parents love and good character are saved for mothers who kill their child/ren. It's hard not to condemn though, because intentionally taking a life is a deplorable act, a million times more so when it's your own child. It becomes more complex when mental illness is involved.

After Geoff Hunt killed his wife, children and then himself, he was vilified by the public. In an ABC interview with Kim Hunt's sister, she gave a surprise response about her sister's death, that her sister was a different person after her accident and that Geoff just couldn't take it anymore. She seemed perfectly resigned to the fact that Geoff was deeply depressed and did it out of love and frustration. The coroner's court findings was that Kim changed dramatically after her accident and was verbally abusive towards Geoff.

Actually, I don't really know what point I'm trying to make here, it's such difficult ground. Maybe, I'll give this explanation a go.

We've made great strides in diagnosing and prescribing medications for mental illness and generally a better understanding of mental heath by education and literature etc. But we failed with the closure of mental facilities imo, for patients that need long term care. There were so many tragedies that could have been avoided if the perpetrator was hospitalized BEFORE killing a family member. Wives, husbands, parents have struggled alone with their partner/child who is clearly out of control and dangerous.

Many of these killers have expressed multiple times a wish to kill their loved ones or even a stranger. Their mental health professional ups their dosage which isn't guaranteed the patient is even taking to start with, or their therapist notes it down and tries to persuade them to think differently! Honestly, this isn't good enough. These patients need to be hospitalized for their own safety and for the safety of others before they carry out their awful plan. Sometimes they may need to be in care for years, but this isn't available anymore, mental health facilities closed down and the ones still open take in short term or outpatients only. The funding just isn't there anymore and also mental 'institutions' had a bad reputation for various reasons, some justified.

Of course, there needs to be monitoring of the facilities, this includes not only patients but staff and mental health professionals. This costs money which our society doesn't deem as important enough to give. As a result, people are dying at the hands of someone with a mental illness which could have been prevented.

This is one such tragedy that would never have happened if the father was institutionalized. It has stuck in my mind since it happened.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...fore-girls-death/story-e6freoof-1111115236987

Sorry for going on, it's something that has been bothering me for years. :blushing:
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Thanks for your thoughtful post Prime Suspect. This is difficult, complex ground we're talking about here. We struggle to understand what would drive a mother to murder her child. IMO the possibility of mental illness in the mother, leading up to the murder, needs to be investigated to be ruled in or out as a causal factor in this tragedy. If no PND, no mental illness, then we are left with predisposing personality/character factors possibly combined with relationship breakdown and current environmental stress factors. There are other contributing factors emanating from an arranged marriage - too lengthy to mention here. However, in short, transitioning to becoming a parent is less easy for some than for others. The quality and influences on the parents’ relationship is crucial here. Then there is the mother-child relationship: how did she feel/relate with her child over time? Did this change in recent times? So many questions.

IMHO there were opportunities for her emotional/cognitive interaction with her child to be observed by the DHHS workers, local GP, Maternal & Child Health nurse, paramedics who suspected attempted suffocation and by the hospital staff when the child was admitted. I fully support the State Government's investigation into the death of Sanaya Sahib.

We don't know enough about the father, the marriage or relationship with In-Laws - all of which have some influence here. However, we are not permitted to sleuth the father or his family on WS as they are not POI in this case. I'm circumspect about the father's information reported in MSM. A child has been murdered here. Domestic violence has been alleged. We need to be careful not to label 'good/bad' parent to either parent.

An innocent, vulnerable child's murder is 'murder' in any language and culture around the world. This mother has allegedly murdered her child. Some of us find this so horrific that we try to understand what factors would drive a mother to murder her child. My opinion only.
 
Riice said:
BBM for focus.

I just wanted to offer some clarification on the arranged marriage aspect (I speak from 2 perspectives, an immigration lawyer and a member of a culture that still practices arranged marriages, Sikh/Punjabi. )

From a Punjabi/Sikh perspective; arranged marriages in this day and age arent as archaic or forceful or even so much as a business deal as they once may have been. It is essentially 2 families coming together and finding common ground to unite their respective children in matrimony, based on compatibility factors: Age, socio economic background, education, religion, etc. Many times (and this is in response to someone elses posts about the rights of the woman being taken away - I am new to all of this posting so still trying to figure out posting logistics - but many times the prospective bride and groom do meet and do have a say in whether or not they want to marry the person. In my 10 years in assisting marriage based immigration, I can cite many cases of successful arranged marriages, that dont infringe upon anyone's rights.

2nd from an immigration point of view - many countries continue to practice Arranged Marriages and governments of Canada, US, Australia, UK and so forth (western nations) accept these marriages as bona fide. Bona fides and genuine marriage as opposed to marriages of convenience (ie. for immigration or some other benefit under the immigration act) being the threshold test for marriage applications and sponsorships..
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting up the info. and as i stated from my post you quoted, i was not aware of arranged marriages being okay in Aus. is all.
BBM, Yes it would depend on the circumstances of this particular couple and i wonder too how the Dept. of Immigration would be able to know if the marriage was not simply to gain entry into another country? It has happened that people have done that before.
From this link Australia does have some very strict laws on arranged/forced marriages, so am not sure how they would determine that in every case?
https://www.ag.gov.au/CrimeAndCorruption/HumanTrafficking/Pages/ForcedMarriage.aspx
 
they'll get you said:
Hundreds attend vigil for murdered toddler Sanaya Sahib
Yahoo7
Published 25 mins ago
Share
Pink and yellow balloons were released near the creek where 14-month-old toddler Sanaya Sahib's body was found as part of a community vigil. Source: 7 News
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How lovely for so many people to care about little Sanaya and get together for her in a show of support.
 
Riice said:
2nd from an immigration point of view - many countries continue to practice Arranged Marriages and governments of Canada, US, Australia, UK and so forth (western nations) accept these marriages as bona fide. Bona fides and genuine marriage as opposed to marriages of convenience (ie. for immigration or some other benefit under the immigration act) being the threshold test for marriage applications and sponsorships..
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Further to this, in Australia the requirements for marriage to be valid are:

a) both parties are 18+
b) male and female, since Johnny Howard's change to the Marriage Act during his reign and 'to the exclusion of all others'
c) neither party is married at the time (i.e. 'never validly married', divorced, or widowed)
d) the marriage is voluntarily entered into 'for life'

that last part might be where some people think that means arranged marriages are illegal, but you can give full, voluntary legal consent to an arranged marriage.

of course there are also the administrative things like having to give at least a month's notice (no, you cannot decide to get married on the spot in Australia, despite what Neighbours and other crap TV shows would have you think) and filling out the right paperwork and paying for the privilege as well
 
FYI
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/b...ity-honours-sanaya-sahib-20160415-go76pi.html

Balloons fill the sky as 'amazing' community honours Sanaya Sahib
April 15, 2016 - 1:06PM by Chris Johnston, Senior Writer for The Age.

"Vigil organiser Cheyenne Brent said her own little daughter had played with Sanaya at a local maternal and child health centre two weeks ago, while the mums waited in line to get their babies immunised" ...
"She said the Banyule Community Health Centre offered help for young mothers suffering post-natal depression, depression and anxiety.
"Whatever culture or religion you are," she said, "there is help." The question, she said, on behalf of the people she gathered today, is 'why?'
"Why did she do it? Why?"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/7329894-3x2-700x467.jpg
 
Karinna said:
How lovely for so many people to care about little Sanaya and get together for her in a show of support.
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In the article it said the father did not attend but will attend his daughter's funeral.

I wonder how mum is feeling.
 
Fuskier said:
FYI
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/b...ity-honours-sanaya-sahib-20160415-go76pi.html

Balloons fill the sky as 'amazing' community honours Sanaya Sahib
April 15, 2016 - 1:06PM by Chris Johnston, Senior Writer for The Age.

"Vigil organiser Cheyenne Brent said her own little daughter had played with Sanaya at a local maternal and child health centre two weeks ago, while the mums waited in line to get their babies immunised" ...
"She said the Banyule Community Health Centre offered help for young mothers suffering post-natal depression, depression and anxiety.
"Whatever culture or religion you are," she said, "there is help." The question, she said, on behalf of the people she gathered today, is 'why?'
"Why did she do it? Why?"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/7329894-3x2-700x467.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for that article Fuskier, I cried not only for little Sanaya but or everyone who has been affected by her murder, the good people in this human race and the pity I feel for Sanay's mother. Well, I think I feel pity and a mixture of ill feelings.
 
It's interesting that the lady who started the vigil met Sanaya getting vaccinations
If the murder was premeditated it must have only been a recent plan, otherwise why bother immunising?
Did she think the seizure was maybe a vaccine injury and freaked out?
 
Aglaia said:
It's interesting that the lady who started the vigil met Sanaya getting vaccinations
If the murder was premeditated it must have only been a recent plan, otherwise why bother immunising?
Did she think the seizure was maybe a vaccine injury and freaked out?
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Not getting your child vaccinated can affect your government payments
 
No it doesn't, it merely restricts your access to daycare.

PainExpress said:
Not getting your child vaccinated can affect your government payments
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Edited to apologise, it can affect your payments as of January 2016.
However, since the baby is now deceased, she won't be getting the child care payment, so that reasoning is moot.
 
PainExpress said:
Not getting your child vaccinated can affect your government payments
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But you need a living child to get the payment or benefits, I think murder would cancel out financial gain
It just seems strange to me that she would do something like that if she thought the child wouldn't be around for much longer
 
they'll get you said:
Thanks for that article Fuskier, I cried not only for little Sanaya but or everyone who has been affected by her murder, the good people in this human race and the pity I feel for Sanay's mother. Well, I think I feel pity and a mixture of ill feelings.
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It's so sad TGY. :blowkiss: It's affected many of us.
 
Aglaia said:
But you need a living child to get the payment or benefits, I think murder would cancel out financial gain
It just seems strange to me that she would do something like that if she thought the child wouldn't be around for much longer
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That's why i think she probably snapped and killed her baby. If it is true and Sanaya had an injury to her mouth, then it's possible the mother was trying to quieten her down if she was upset, and after hitting her in the mouth she then took it one step further and killed her to get her to be quiet. Not that hitting the baby in the mouth would quiet her, it would of made her cry even harder if that's what happened? And also if that is the case i think the mother was at her wits end with a crying upset baby getting on her last nerve and lashed out on Sanaya in the worse way possible.
 
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