GUILTY Australia - Stephanie Scott, 26, Leeton, NSW, 5 April 2015 - #3

[Trooper]

Vincent must have had some kind of pull with Australia Post.. to send the engagement ring to SA, and to a suburb of Adelaide from Leeton over Easter , ( he must have held on to it until the Post Office opened on Tuesday ) .. . and for it to get to Markus, no small journey for a parcel. Parcelled stuff goes to Wagga then to Sydney and is flown to Adelaide then van to the outlying suburbs.

I am thinking he probably had to rock up to the P.O. himself, to get a correct postage stamp on the envelope or docket that he sent it in. He wouldn't want to risk just an ordinary stamp and envelope.. too unsafe, and too risky..... he would have had to have it weighed and signed off on, probably registered mail.. who knows..

But I think of him standing there in the Leeton P.O. going thru all this rigmarole, without batting an eyelid. . .

 

[alioop]

Hi everyone. Thanks for the call out. I think the guilty plea by Marcus could mean he will testify against his brother. As to VS mental state, I have a feeling that he is simply not cooperating with anyone, including his lawyer but still wants his lawyer to represent him. I do think his lawyer is unsure about his client's fitness for trial and is in a difficult situation in trying to advise him.
VS doesn't have to say anything at all in this whole process. I think he could suddenly plead guilty at any time or just stubbornly not enter a plea or offer anything in his defence. And of course that is his legal right. The prosecution will present their case at trial and VS's lawyer can present a passive or active defence depending on what instructions he can get out of VS.
This is a very strange case because VS seems a very strange person. I think there will be interesting times ahead.

 

[Annap]

Can anyone help me to clarify this... It has been reported that VS is now being charged with deprivation of liberty - for holding "SS captive for a period". See link-
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/nsw/2016/04/01/scott-murder-accused-to-face-court.html

It was known early on that she emailed the bus company at 12.59 confirming transportation for guests...however, Police are alleging she was killed between 1.40-2PM? As awful as it is to think about, I'm hoping this means she wasn't held captive in the sense of hours on end? Does it seem likely that he took her back, alive, to the house?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Can anyone help me to clarify this... It has been reported that VS is now being charged with deprivation of liberty - for holding "SS captive for a period". See link-
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/nsw/2016/04/01/scott-murder-accused-to-face-court.html

It was known early on that she emailed the bus company at 12.59 confirming transportation for guests...however, Police are alleging she was killed between 1.40-2PM? As awful as it is to think about, I'm hoping this means she wasn't held captive in the sense of hours on end? Does it seem likely that he took her back, alive, to the house?

We don't know how he managed - if VS was alone - to hide SS' car at different places. I think, we don't know of evidence in Stephanie's car.
My thought is:
Was Stephanie forced to drive her car with VS on the passenger seat (knife, sword in hands) to a certain place? "SS holding captive for a period".
Was it a place where later on MS had access to it when he came per flight from SA? He needed a car to drive to the Cocoparra National Park, IF he followed his brother.

Perhaps VS on Sunday morning had more time than we assume because VS appeared at school immediately after SS had arrived (or was already there)?
Perhaps the fax (or was it mail?) to the bus company just showed up on the screen or in the fax machine and was send by him afterwards when he came back to take SS' laptop, to clean up something and get his car?
With his car he drove to her hidden Mazda somewhere, moved SS and drove with his white pick up (and SS) away, maybe.

:dunno: Does it make any sense?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'm intrigued by the jetstar ticket too! It was used in the evidence brief against Marcus though. Marcus had plenty of time to cut and run before he was arrested so i'm dubious that it was for him. I'm a bit foggy on the timeline now so if anyone still has links that would be handy - Wasn't it the day after VS was arrested that the police raided MS's house at 6am and questioned him and his 2 housemates? It took a while for MS to be arrested but i'm sure they were watching him. If i were to speculate, i'd say that MS bought the ticket for VS before VS was arrested. Probably for VS to fly to Adelaide, and then MS could further assist him with going on the lam? Being identical twins, MS giving VS his I.D. could have assisted him even further in the short term. Just a thought. I don't think MS was ever in Leeton, but it IS odd that the police were showing MS's picture to people in light of now knowing about the plane ticket.

Please delete if not allowed* But was anyone sleuthing their xbox history. I found it very easy to find their gamer tags by some details of their online footprints that were actually posted on here. Both avid gamers, yet only VS had a gold membership, and MS only silver. However they would still have been able to talk to each other through xbox, which would be harder to investigate imo. Looking at their game history too, MS was more into 'shooters' whereas VS more into racing games (actually VS's game history seemed almost juvenile, lots of kids games etc). Their friend list is curious too, MS had plenty and VS had hardly any.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/nsw/2016/04/01/scott-murder-accused-to-face-court.html >> VS's library book hiring history from Leeton was acquired as evidence too? Wonder what kind of information he required from a library that couldn't be obtained via googling through xbox.

bbm

I think it is the other way round? MS was interested in racing and sometime was hoping for a job in the racing industry?

 

[Trooper]

I think the guilty plea by Marcus could mean he will testify against his brother. QUOTE]

edited by me for brevity

Alioop.. Radical!.... that situation must be hell for the mother and the older brother.. I know Markus cant be forced to give evidence against Vincent, and it is interesting to dwell on the quality of evidence he would give voluntarily against his twin brother... ...

Pleading guilty by Markus has the air of something held out as , if not actually a reward, at least some mitigating factor has been proposed by the prosecution?.. the kind of thing a tainted witness for the prosecution is tempted with. .. He would have to give up when he knew about the murder.. ( during the planning stages or after it was done ) ..considering the search for Stephanie that was processed, what he did with that knowledge... what advice or suggestions he gave Vincent, and with what expectation the advice was given, was Vincent in the habit of following the suggestions of Markus, etc.

And we might then find out why the two brothers, the twins, were separated, .. according to Markus he wasn't allowed back home, so something of the nature of at the very least unappealing went on between them that resulted in the mother, and possibly the elder brother in agreement to conclude that separation by quite a long distance was necessary and immediately so. Hence , Markus in Adelaide, Vincent in Leeton.

According to Markus, he has never been in Leeton, so whatever it was that took place that resulted in this outcome , it happened either in Holland, or when they first arrived in Australia , within the first weeks. I cant speculate on what it was, it seems to have been something out of the ordinary brotherly escapades, or confrontations, .. something quite astounding for the outcome chosen, the banishment from home , such as it was..

( apropos of Markus 'flying to Leeton from Adelaide'.. he would have had to fly Adelaide-Melbourne-Sydney-Griffith or if he was very lucky, Adelaide-Sydney-Griffith <=== this requires a change of aircraft at Sydney, to a small jet job, and that means waiting for that schedule to fit in, sometimes it means a wait of 7 hours or more , which means Markus is hanging around Kingsford Smith plain as day. you cant hide anywhere there.

Then, be picked up by Vincent at Griffith and driven to Leeton. Over Easter. The busiest time of the year, apart from Christmas Eve . Two large twin boys meeting at Griffith ... that would be a tad unusual and noticed by at least staff, if not the other passengers. The boarding pass doesn't tell us from where to where just yet... ) ..

 

[they'll get you]

A beautiful photo of Stephanie I don't recall seeing before.

Stephanie Scott.

 

[they'll get you]

The police charge sheet said Marcus "did assist" in the murder and he received the engagement ring in South Australia via the post, Fairfax reports.
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...y-for-accessory-to-murder#DpfSIkRZBe7L1VoC.99

 

[Trooper]

The police charge sheet said Marcus "did assist" in the murder and he received the engagement ring in South Australia via the post, Fairfax reports.
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...y-for-accessory-to-murder#DpfSIkRZBe7L1VoC.99

it will be interesting ,TGY , to find out at what point Markus began 'assisting'. At the murder? Before the transportation to Cocoparra park ? After, or before the burning part?.. On the way back? .. When did Vincent figure out he needed assistance.. ? .. what made him decide that, as opposed to any other time? .. all stuff I want to know.

 

[Karo]

MS was charged as an accessory after the fact, so he wasn't there or involved prior, I assume.

 

[pixiegrrl]

Thanks FromGermany,
I double checked, and neither of them have much interest in racing games. Just shooters for both really. It was the amount of juvenile games that VS had played moreso than MS that caught my attention i think. Lego Batman, Harry Potter, Banjo Kazooie games etc.

Living with 2 VERY avid xbox gamers, i took my sleuthing there. The feedback i got is that MS is definitely the main gamer, his total gamerscore is massively higher than VS's, and considering their ages, there's no doubt that MS is the main 'gamer' out of the 2. Both very active, but MS is over 20,000 gamer points higher than VS which is many, many, many extra hours of gaming. The 18yr old gamer in my home has a similar gamer score as VS.

I asked my most seasoned gamer, if someone was accused of such a grisly crime as this and their choice in games could raise any red flags - what would they be? He instantly replied "Condemned". Interestingly, it wasn't VS that had ever played this game, but it was MS, albeit only very briefly (and it was Condemned 2). After perusing both of their game histories, he also thought they were sharing games due to the almost identical nature of the games, and how he himself use to share games with a fellow gamer so they could each buy different games at the same time and then just swap with each other. Just a thought, but if this is the case then it wouldn't be unusual for VS to have pre-paid Aus Post satchels lying around which could explain how VS posted what he did to MS without waiting in line with evidence literally in his hand in a government CCTV establishment.

I think it is worth mentioning, that the stalk and hunt game that was being developed was actually being made by MS and someone else, and that VS was only doing some 3d modelling that MS gave him to do and wasn't actually affiliated with this game otherwise. (wish i had saved those links now!). I just don't think that the 'online fantasy life' angle the media has portrayed will stick in regards to the actual trial imo. Reminds me a bit of the WM3 satanic panic for people that are familiar with that case.

Can MS not be forced to testify/give evidence at trial? I thought that was a spousal law only?? Would that mean that he has most likely already agreed to do so, as he is being sentenced before the trial date? I can't see the incentive in MS volunteering to testify against his brother unless it helps his own sentencing. The guy already bought himself some hefty jail time and a nasty criminal record for life out of loyalty to his brother.


In relation to MS living in Adelaide, and VS and co. in Leeton, from early reports it seemed that this was more MS's choice? he left for Aus. quite a bit before the rest of them and judging by his digital footprints seemed a lot more social and outgoing, and VS had visited MS in Adelaide a couple of times.

 

[Karo]

I don't think there is any law in Australia about testifying against a spouse or a sibling, however, no one can forced to testify. I guess if they refuse, there isn't much that can be done.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The police charge sheet said Marcus "did assist" in the murder and he received the engagement ring in South Australia via the post, Fairfax reports.
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...y-for-accessory-to-murder#DpfSIkRZBe7L1VoC.99

being an accessory to the murder

(NOT after the murder/fact)
MS assisted from 8. to 30. April we heard; maybe the 8th isn't the last cognition we read of.
MS could have done a lot of things re assisting, first of all he could have instigated his brother VS.

VS did visit MS at his flower farm? Interesting, I didn't know that. Good to know VS is able to do a journey to Adelaide on his own, then he must be able too to stand a trial.

MS didn't visit VS at Leeton? There has to be a reason for that, I think. As we know part of MS' twitter account sounded like a ban to show up at home. Why?? Perhaps because of instigating VS of doing illicit things? Maybe the twins were an evil duo if together and poor Anika had to decide already when still living at the Netherlands to urgently separate this adult twin duo after immigration. MS came first and settled at Adelaide SA whereas Anika perhaps searched for a job far away from him in NSW. - No facts, only assuming and IMO.

 

[Fuskier]

Thanks FromGermany,
I double checked, and neither of them have much interest in racing games. Just shooters for both really. It was the amount of juvenile games that VS had played moreso than MS that caught my attention i think. Lego Batman, Harry Potter, Banjo Kazooie games etc.

Living with 2 VERY avid xbox gamers, i took my sleuthing there. The feedback i got is that MS is definitely the main gamer, his total gamerscore is massively higher than VS's, and considering their ages, there's no doubt that MS is the main 'gamer' out of the 2. Both very active, but MS is over 20,000 gamer points higher than VS which is many, many, many extra hours of gaming. The 18yr old gamer in my home has a similar gamer score as VS.

I asked my most seasoned gamer, if someone was accused of such a grisly crime as this and their choice in games could raise any red flags - what would they be? He instantly replied "Condemned". Interestingly, it wasn't VS that had ever played this game, but it was MS, albeit only very briefly (and it was Condemned 2). After perusing both of their game histories, he also thought they were sharing games due to the almost identical nature of the games, and how he himself use to share games with a fellow gamer so they could each buy different games at the same time and then just swap with each other. Just a thought, but if this is the case then it wouldn't be unusual for VS to have pre-paid Aus Post satchels lying around which could explain how VS posted what he did to MS without waiting in line with evidence literally in his hand in a government CCTV establishment.

I think it is worth mentioning, that the stalk and hunt game that was being developed was actually being made by MS and someone else, and that VS was only doing some 3d modelling that MS gave him to do and wasn't actually affiliated with this game otherwise. (wish i had saved those links now!). I just don't think that the 'online fantasy life' angle the media has portrayed will stick in regards to the actual trial imo. Reminds me a bit of the WM3 satanic panic for people that are familiar with that case.

Can MS not be forced to testify/give evidence at trial? I thought that was a spousal law only?? Would that mean that he has most likely already agreed to do so, as he is being sentenced before the trial date? I can't see the incentive in MS volunteering to testify against his brother unless it helps his own sentencing. The guy already bought himself some hefty jail time and a nasty criminal record for life out of loyalty to his brother.


In relation to MS living in Adelaide, and VS and co. in Leeton, from early reports it seemed that this was more MS's choice? he left for Aus. quite a bit before the rest of them and judging by his digital footprints seemed a lot more social and outgoing, and VS had visited MS in Adelaide a couple of times.

Pixiegirl, thanks for sleuthing further. It is interesting about MS and VS posted games to each other which shows VS's experience with Austpost. It's possible that VS had AustPost satchels/envelopes readily available in his house. Good point.

Re the 'online fantasy life' portrayed in msm, we don't know how long ago this happened, whether it was for a limited period of time or whether it was current and ongoing; however, the police investigation found evidence which establishes VS's online skills: as reported, they found evidence of online activity along with evidence of *advertiser censored*, the specific details of which have not been reported yet as the case is going to trial.

It appears there was an association between the 'watch & hunt' game developers, MS and VS. IMO the official statement by the game developers was in response to msm reporting it publicly, the game subsequently being associated with an actual grisly murder with similar features. It is in their interests to distance themselves. However, given that MS and VS shared online activity, his exposure could have been greater than the game developers were aware. We don't know the extent of VS's exposure or the effect this exposure had on his alleged vulnerable psyche. My opinion only.

 

[Fuskier]

The police charge sheet said Marcus "did assist" in the murder and he received the engagement ring in South Australia via the post, Fairfax reports.
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...y-for-accessory-to-murder#DpfSIkRZBe7L1VoC.99

Hi TGY, IMO there might be reporting discrepancies again as we saw with the changes to the charges, the dates of MS's sentencing, etc.

However, the article by Emma Partridge reported in http://www.canowindranews.com.au/sto...e-scott/?cs=12 stated:

CANOWINDRA NEWS Thursday 31st March 2016.
Marcus Stanford pleads guilty to being an accessory to murder of teacher Stephanie Scott
By Emma Partridge(SMH).

: Marcus Stanford, 24, pleaded guilty to the charge at Griffith Local Court on Thursday morning.
The police charge sheet says that Marcus "did assist" his identical twin brother Vincent between April 8 and April 31[Unquote].

Because MS pleaded GUILTY to the charge of being 'an accessory after the fact', he goes straight to sentencing on May 2 or 4th 2016. Just to clarify, the police charge sheet reported states that MS 'did assist' (as an accessory after the fact) between the specific dates above.

 

[Trooper]

When the judge pronounces the sentencing, the exact content of the assistance Markus gave his brother will be detailed. May 3rd. And I will be unable to connect because I 'll be doing the long drive down the east coast of NSW from Surfers to Sydney. Dang. I wonder if Vincent is up to speed as to what his brother has pleaded guilty to, or how much they have worked it out together, because as far as I know, they haven't been separated in any meaningful way while being held at Griffith. Not that it matters, in the scale of things, in the big picture. Stephanie is dead, regardless. Nothing changes that.

It is hard to figure out what was brotherly love, and what was premeditated nature. .

Scenario. .. Vincent rings Markus, and tells him , or even shows him, over the phone , which is what I really think happened, that he has murdered a local schoolteacher, right there, in the school, on an otherwise peaceful Easter Sunday in quiet sleepy Leeton. And, then Markus assists him in selling off the goods and chattels of the murdered woman. There is such a huge leap in logic, there. .. There has to be more than that, more pieces to that puzzle.. There has to be a graduation of effect, ... surely? .. A lot depends on exactly when Vincent informed Markus of the murder. .. At what stage of the proceedings did he call for his brothers assistance, or.. approval? or .... competition?? or...

 

[Deleted member 102539]

When the judge pronounces the sentencing, the exact content of the assistance Markus gave his brother will be detailed. May 3rd. And I will be unable to connect because I 'll be doing the long drive down the east coast of NSW from Surfers to Sydney. Dang. I wonder if Vincent is up to speed as to what his brother has pleaded guilty to, or how much they have worked it out together, because as far as I know, they haven't been separated in any meaningful way while being held at Griffith. Not that it matters, in the scale of things, in the big picture. Stephanie is dead, regardless. Nothing changes that.

It is hard to figure out what was brotherly love, and what was premeditated nature. .

Scenario. .. Vincent rings Markus, and tells him , or even shows him, over the phone , which is what I really think happened, that he has murdered a local schoolteacher, right there, in the school, on an otherwise peaceful Easter Sunday in quiet sleepy Leeton. And, then Markus assists him in selling off the goods and chattels of the murdered woman. There is such a huge leap in logic, there. .. There has to be more than that, more pieces to that puzzle.. There has to be a graduation of effect, ... surely? .. A lot depends on exactly when Vincent informed Markus of the murder. .. At what stage of the proceedings did he call for his brothers assistance, or.. approval? or .... competition?? or...

bbm

Also my thought at some time. But there is no flower picker or a child missing in the Adelaide Hills area otherwise we had heard of.

 

[Fuskier]

Marcus Stanford is due to appear in court today:

https://onlineregistry.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/content/court-lists#

Displaying 1 - 1 of 1 results (last refreshed at 10:22am 02 May 2016)

2 May 10:00 am 2015/00167544 R v Marcus Stanford Criminal District Court Mention Judge R Letherbarrow Griffith

:behindbar Additional link:
https://onlineregistry.lawlink.nsw....ate%22%2C%22sortOrder%22%3A%22ASC%22%7D%7D%7D

 

[Estelle]

That link does not work. The assistance Markus gave his brother will be detailed on May 3rd.

 

[Fuskier]

FYI

https://onlineregistry.lawlink.nsw.g...257D%7D%7D

Vincent Stanford is set for arraignment this Friday, May 6th 2016:

06 May 10:00 am 2015/00104505 R v VINCENT STANFORD Criminal Supreme Court Arraignment
Justice P Johnson Supreme Court Sydney Law Courts Building Court 13A Queens Square Sydney 32