Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #65

[Coldpizza]

William Tyrrell: ‘One million reasons’ to come forward over toddler’s abduction
7:29pm September 12, 2016

A $1 million reward, the largest in New South Wales history, has been announced for information that leads to the arrest of the person who abducted missing toddler William Tyrrell, or for the boy’s safe return or recovery.

William, then aged three, went missing from the backyard of his grandmother’s home in Kendall, on the state's mid-north coast, on September 12, 2014.

[...]

"You’re in a much better position if you come to us than if we come to you."

Det. Insp. Jubelin also said the investigation was "a long way" from going to a coronial inquest, and that police did not believe William's family were involved.

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS WRITTEN BELOW. YOU MUST FOLLOW WHAT IS OUTLINED OR YOU WILL BE TIMED OUT OR BANNED!!!!

Thanks to DrSleuth for your help in writing up the information needed for the discussion.

Here is what we can and cannot discuss.

No identifying the biological family, the foster family or any associates ( ie siblings, etc ) or their addresses, places of employment or childcare, etc

They can be identified as bio mother etc & female foster carer etc

At the inquest, they are known as biological mother & father. Foster family are known as FFC ( female foster carer ) MFC ( male foster carer ) FFGM ( female foster grandmother ) etc
REMEMBER THE ABOVE PEOPLE CANNOT BE IDENTIFIED USING THEIR INITIALS.

Prior to the coronial inquest, the bio families could be identified, but it was overturned by the coroner for the inquest.

I am very sorry it took me so long to open this thread back up. Please keep in mind we are short handed so if this thread starts to get out of control with alerts we will have to close it again.
Please do not hesitate to alert but make sure the alert is truly needed. We have experienced a lot of tit for tat alerts and that makes me foam at the mouth, grow hair on my hands and my teeth turn into fangs. In other words please be sure when you post you are posting within our terms of service.

Thank you,
Tricia

Rules Etiquette & Information

William Tyrrell MEDIA/MAPS/TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION*

Thread #28 Thread #29 Thread #30 Thread #31 Thread #32 Thread #33 Thread #34 Thread #35 Thread #36 Thread #37 Thread #38 Thread #39 Thread #40 Thread #41 Thread #42 Thread #43 Thread #44 Thread #45 Thread #46 Thread #47 Thread #48 Thread #49 Thread #50 Thread #51 Thread #52 Thread #53 Thread #54 Thread #55 Thread #56 Thread #57 Thread #58 Thread #59 Thread #60 Thread #61
Thread #62 Thread #63 Thread #64

 

[Tricia]

I will keep posting the information as soon as we are certain everyone understands who they cannot identify. One more time:
No identifying the biological family, the foster family or any associates ( ie siblings, etc ) or their addresses, places of employment or childcare, etc

They can be identified as bio mother etc & female foster carer etc

At the inquest, they are known as biological mother & father. Foster family are known as FFC ( female foster carer ) MFC ( male foster carer ) FFGM ( female foster grandmother ) etc
REMEMBER THE ABOVE PEOPLE CANNOT BE IDENTIFIED USING THEIR INITIALS.

 

[Sillybilly]

So, does that mean it's OK to discuss any other books on the subject?

There is no blanket approval. Please contact a Mod or Admin with the name of the book and the author and we will make a decision.

Chumley's book "Searching for Spiderman" is not approved.

Gary Jubelin's book and Caroline Overington's book are the only two that are approved for discussion at this time.

I think they should be okay - as one is a journo and one is an ex-lead detective on the case - but I will alert on my post and see if a mod can clarify how we should reference. Whether that be the book and page number, or a screenshot of the specific excerpt from the page of one of the allowable books.

IIRC stormbird was putting up screenshots when she spoke of particular passages from Overington's book.

Both books can be discussed.

Always give credit to the author. Book title, page # and paraphrasing or brief quotes are allowed.

Screenshots and more extensive quoting requires approval of the author (the copyright holder).

Do not try to get more content in by breaking it up into multiple posts.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Have just spoken with Tricia and she agrees that members can discuss the recent events surrounding the issuing of the AVO and the foster parents as potential POIs (which y'all have been doing anyway, right?)

While WS policy is that we are victim friendly, and this extends to family member, the policy has to be examined as to how it relates to specific discussions and new information as it comes to light. This is a thread specific exception that is being made based on MSM, obvious action and ongoing investigation by Australian law enforcement.

Discuss matters factually and speculate reasonably but without trashing these people or making direct accusations. Members who do so will be banned from the thread.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This case has its very own set of very unique circumstances that we are having to work around and we know it is difficult for our members.

Of course we have William's case, but we also have the complicating factors of the foster situation, a living minor child, a coronial inquest that prevents publication of names, an AVO not known 100% to be immediately connected to William's case.

Taking all the above into consideration, we can not allow sleuthing of individuals who have not been publicly named.

Discussing what is in MSM is fine, but actual sleuthing of unnamed persons and posting about their background, their personal information or social media is not allowed.

Thanks to everyone here for trying to post accordingly through all this murkiness.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

No link, no post !!

Mentioning something while failing to provide a link leads to rumors being linked back to Websleuths. If you can’t recall or you ‘think’ you remember, please take the time to find the link or don’t post it.

Unless someone can link to MSM where it is stipulated that William had ADHD, please stop discussing it as fact. The same applies to speculation about mental health of the foster mom. There are no Verified mental health experts in this discussion, so diagnosing such issues is not allowed. We run across this in many discussions where members speculate or guess regarding ADHD, bipolar, borderline personality, psychopathy, narcissism, autism, Aspergers, etc etc.

ALL images require a link to the source, otherwise it is a copyright violation and such posts get removed.

We tend to overlook the occasional off topic post, but such posts and numerous responses take the focus off the case. It can take a lot of time to find and remove all those posts because Mods have to review pages and pages to find all the responses. Mods and Admins aren’t jerks ...we just don’t have unlimited resources to devote to removing chit chat about unrelated matters.

Discussing or criticizing other members (whether new members or veteran members, whether individually or collectively) is just plain tacky. It has zero to do with finding out what happened to William, and is not allowed.

Patience everyone. There are some veteran members who forget they were new here once, and there are new members who forget that veteran members know a lot about this case. Discuss the case at hand without bickering, personalizing or snark.

Thread is open again.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN WARNING:

Posts discussing the foster mom's statement to LE have been removed as no link was provided to the document, and to our knowledge this document has never been publicly released.

 

[JBowie]

@winterberry said:

From what i can gather, this is what happened *IMO*.

1. 12/9 000 call. No statement of suspicious cars (She actually says "no, no, no no" when the operator asked if there was anyone suspicious or vehicles she noticed.)

2. 14/9 first official Statement to police. No mention of cars or driving to search for William

3. 15/9 Police canvassed Batar Creek Road and a motorist has come forward (the truck driver perhaps) telling the police that they saw her in FGM's car.

4. 18/9 Walkthrough video statement to police where FM introduces that she drove to search for William

5. No mention by FM ever since in numerous podcasts, interviews, statements, etc about driving to search, her walkthrough video was only released to the public through the coroner in 2019, the first time the public was ever made aware of it.

Points 1 and 2 above were enough to make me begin to suspect the credibility of parts of her story.

The 000 operator asked her if he was wearing shoes but she combined it immediately with the 'any other distinguishing features' question and FM never answered the shoes question. Such operators should ask one question at a time.

 

[winterberry]

@winterberry said:



Points 1 and 2 above were enough to make me begin to suspect the credibility of parts of her story.

The 000 operator asked her if he was wearing shoes but she combined it immediately with the 'any other distinguishing features' question and FM never answered the shoes question. Such operators should ask one question at a time.

I agree. But honestly, when i heard her 000 call, I was just.. unsettled. It sounded too casual, forced, even. I don't know, it's instinct. It didn't feel right. I know not everyone is the same in crisis situations, but still. Additionally, when i heard her say that she was coaching herself to "keep it together", that was very strange. I really don't think that somebody under that stress would be concerned about keeping it together, hell, i'd probably scream and cry on the 000 call in hysteria and not care how I was perceived. I would beg them to come help me find my child.


None of it feels right. IMO

 

[ediethedog]

I agree. But honestly, when i heard her 000 call, I was just.. unsettled. It sounded too casual, forced, even. I don't know, it's instinct. It didn't feel right. I know not everyone is the same in crisis situations, but still. Additionally, when i heard her say that she was coaching herself to "keep it together", that was very strange. I really don't think that somebody under that stress would be concerned about keeping it together, hell, i'd probably scream and cry on the 000 call in hysteria and not care how I was perceived. I would beg them to come help me find my child.


None of it feels right. IMO

She struck me as a type of woman that loves control in every situation...the call was controlled, stiff and I couldn't agree with you more ...especially with the" keeping it together"....people react in odd ways to stress...of course. But IMO and its only that...she had set her self a role a long time ago....perfect foster mum perhaps.... and shes sticking to that role no matter what.
I admit for most of the time I was adamant the FFC or MFC were squeaky clean, but now, it seems that there is a possibility she is just very good at sustaining her act.

 

[JBowie]

Additionally, when i heard her say that she was coaching herself to "keep it together", that was very strange. I really don't think that somebody under that stress would be concerned about keeping it together, hell, i'd probably scream and cry on the 000 call in hysteria and not care how I was perceived. I would beg them to come help me find my child.


None of it feels right. IMO

I didn't hear the 000 call recording until after I had watched the police walkthough videos a couple of times. It had already struck me that she was controlling the narrative, and when I heard the 000 call audio it confirmed my feeling.

It's clear to me that she is not the type of person 'to go to pieces' in a crisis. It would not surprise me if she works, or has worked, as a manager.

Being calm and clear-thinking in a crisis is an admirable quality, but it can also be a trait of a calculating personality. For instance, it is said that psycopaths rarely panic. (Not classing FM as psychopath.)

 

[nunaloon]

I am usually quite calm during a crisis but later it catches up with me. I will appear to others like I know what to do ,logical. IMO after listening to the 000 call several times I now hear emotion in the FFC voice like panic but under the surface. I don't know another way to explain it. But maybe I am just hoping I heard panic. I really don't know . I do agree the FFC appears to be the sort of person who is more a leader rather than seek direction from others. IMO

 

[Marg944]

6:46 PM · Nov 27, 2021·Twitter Media Studio

Police have retrieved more potential evidence in their search for the remains of William Tyrrell, today marking two spots in the bush off Cobb & Co Road at Kendall - and bagging what appeared to be a length of thread.

http://7NEWS.com.au #7NEWS
https://twitter.com/i/status/1464500969186619392

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Just checking out mobile phone towers at Kendall .. looks like there is only the one in the area even now for phones to 'ping' from.

Telstra (Australia) Cell Tower Map

I think we can safely assume that data was collected by Rosann .. does this mean whoever has done this was in the area, is accounted for, perhaps this explains all the focus on locals, because there wasn't anyone there who was 'passing through' who didn't pass scrutiny.

Since the FF were 'cleared' it might explain GJ's somewhat over zealous response. It came down to locals, someone who doesn't have a mobile phone, and the FF.

Edit to add: Also whoever it was has to be someone capable of keeping a secret for 7 years.

 

[Morrisa]

After 13 days of searching for William Tyrrell, authorities have uncovered more questions

After seven years, it has come down to an area of bush about the size of four football fields.

But two weeks into the renewed search for William Tyrrell, the main things uncovered are more questions.

 

[mussopossum]

And this new theory being investigated came from new evidence/information received or uncovered in the investigation? Such a specific theory IMO

Why now and why this area after so many years?
Very few members of the force's top brass can answer this — they fear doing so could compromise any chance of a breakthrough.

The theory being explored is that William Tyrrell died after falling from the balcony of the home on September 12, 2014.

Police believe his foster grandmother's car — which is undergoing forensic examination — could have been used to dispose of his body off Batar Creek Road and Cobb and Co Road.


After 13 days of searching for William Tyrrell, authorities have uncovered more questions

 

[Naobh]

I am usually quite calm during a crisis but later it catches up with me. I will appear to others like I know what to do ,logical. IMO after listening to the 000 call several times I now hear emotion in the FFC voice like panic but under the surface. I don't know another way to explain it. But maybe I am just hoping I heard panic. I really don't know . I do agree the FFC appears to be the sort of person who is more a leader rather than seek direction from others. IMO

I'm the same in an emergency, but I'm pretty sure I seem stupidly calm. Then if they won't understand it's urgent because I'm calm, like I just yell. I don't have an in between. So to me it feels forced, given how most people panic and how calm the calm ones are, imo but it's hard to know.

Did you see how furious the girl who was missing for 18 days' stepdad was imo? They talked around the possibility of her being held by a man and his face flashed blue bl00dy m•rder imo. I find the MFC hiding away upset to be very unusual in what was ostensibly a completely unknown outcome for WT imo.

 

[Raina_the_observer]

""Imo the so-called hessian discovered at the search site is more likely to be remnants of green plastic hessian-like garden disposal bags. From experience normal fabric hessian disintegrates rapidly once wet and in contact with soil for an extended period of time.

From experience the bags do not last very long and the structure weakens holes develop and edges fray.""

New member here and from reading the last week's events and the change in focus of the investigation I have some questions I hope that some you know the answers to?

1. There seems to be new reports of a women driving acting suspiciously from a few different sources, but she is referred to as "plump blonde woman" and "large blond woman". I struggle to see anything there that resembles FFC.
2. Re the scraps of bags they are picking up. It is likely they are remnants of horse feed bags, given the location next to a place where there is obviously a lot of horses. No matter how careful people are with them, the odd one ends up being blown away and they disintegrate quickly. So I would expect to find that there. Horse people also use the garden bags to bag manure.
   
3. I see it as normal that she would have jumped in a car to scan and cover more ground in a shorter time. As we are only talking about a 2 km round trip, this would not have taken much time. And it seems logical to check that he hadn't wandered down the road. In a car she could catch up to him if he was down there, as opposed to running on foot. And where she said she turned around is really the first available turn-around point.
   
4. Is it just me, or do I detect an echo of the Lindy Chamberlain case here.? Lindy was tried and convicted mostly because people thought she was not emotional enough.

 

[sniffsniffcough]

@SouthAussie


In the previous thread at message #341 on page 18,you wrote the following which I have directly cut and pasted

"He said they have never nominated any particular person of interest."

At around the 18:35 mark in the presser video, which is currently pinned at the top of this article.

Australia news LIVE: NSW COVID cases grow, Victoria COVID cases grow, Scott Morrison criticises ICAC and introduces religious freedom bill; Victoria vaccination rate hits 90 per cent, William Tyrrell search continues, NZ border to reopen in 2022

Last edited: Thursday at 2:54 PM
SouthAussie, Thursday at 2:47 PM Report
#341 Like

I asked if you could please provide a transcript and indicated to you that the live stream media link you had provided only provided a very short section of the media conference and in a later post I advised you that the link you provided at the time I attempted to obtain access to the media conference was no longer valid and you replied (and indicated the following paraphrased by me) that perhaps I should watch and listen to a link supplied by someone else.

I have done that now and wish to thank those kind members that kindly offered FB links to the media conference (very thankfull but I don't do FB) and other kind members kindly offered twitter links (very thankfull but I don't do twitter).

However Dr Sleuth kindly provided a link at message #398 on page 20 of the previous thread, to what Dr Sleuth described as the full press conference using YouTube and finally I have been able to watch and listen.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/australia-william-tyrrell-3-kendall-nsw-12-sept-2014-64.602562/page-20#post-17302017.

I have now had the opportunity to listen to the press conference and for the life of me cannot hear anything that suggests that DCS Bennett said "they have never nominated any particular person of interest." as you stated in your message that I initially replied to.

What I have gleaned is that at approx 4:27 a (male) member of the media asked a question (and the background noise) muffled all his words but I was able to pick up he mentioned POI and referred to "her". At 4:36 DCS Bennett then said "It leaves the investigation in the hands of the Coroner". I could not hear DCS Bennett speak the words you suggested. The total length of this copy of the media conference is 6:05.

I do appreciate the way DCS Bennett speaks and presents himself at press conferences. His direct no nonsense approach is very refreshing IMO.

 

[JayWill]

""Imo the so-called hessian discovered at the search site is more likely to be remnants of green plastic hessian-like garden disposal bags. From experience normal fabric hessian disintegrates rapidly once wet and in contact with soil for an extended period of time.

From experience the bags do not last very long and the structure weakens holes develop and edges fray.""

New member here and from reading the last week's events and the change in focus of the investigation I have some questions I hope that some you know the answers to?

1. There seems to be new reports of a women driving acting suspiciously from a few different sources, but she is referred to as "plump blonde woman" and "large blond woman". I struggle to see anything there that resembles FFC.
2. Re the scraps of bags they are picking up. It is likely they are remnants of horse feed bags, given the location next to a place where there is obviously a lot of horses. No matter how careful people are with them, the odd one ends up being blown away and they disintegrate quickly. So I would expect to find that there. Horse people also use the garden bags to bag manure.
   
3. I see it as normal that she would have jumped in a car to scan and cover more ground in a shorter time. As we are only talking about a 2 km round trip, this would not have taken much time. And it seems logical to check that he hadn't wandered down the road. In a car she could catch up to him if he was down there, as opposed to running on foot. And where she said she turned around is really the first available turn-around point.
   
4. Is it just me, or do I detect an echo of the Lindy Chamberlain case here.? Lindy was tried and convicted mostly because people thought she was not emotional enough.

BBM. 1) It came from one 75 year old man, not a few different sources, who did not report it to anyone for some time after he claimed to have seen it.
2) Nothing like the Chamberlain case IMO, most of the critics of her were her demeanor at court, after she had been charged. Smiling and waving like a celebrity IMO.