Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71

[Lemony]

I don't think that she said much at all to the police. I feel all along that she has been silenced...

Police walked Lindsay back through the scene on the afternoon of the 15th Sept.
Police had created a diversion, using a press conference to keep media away from the house so that Lindsay wouldn't be photographed.
Lindsay was asked when and where she'd last seen her brother, she told police that they'd been out on the deck, he'd been roaring like a tiger, then he ran off and she didn't see him again.

She'd also been spoken to be police in the days prior to the walk through.

This is information from Caroline Overington's podcast

 

[KateM]

Police walked Lindsay back through the scene on the afternoon of the 15th Sept.
Police had created a diversion, using a press conference to keep media away from the house so that Lindsay wouldn't be photographed.
Lindsay was asked when and where she'd last seen her brother, she told police that they'd been out on the deck, he'd been roaring like a tiger, then he ran off and she didn't see him again.

She'd also been spoken to be police in the days prior to the walk through.

This is information from Caroline Overington's podcast

I think that there's a lot more to that story, frankly.

 

[Detective Willy]

I'm posting this article from Candace Sutton from the 15th August 2019 - Missing Boy William Tyrrell's Doomed Life, because it has such a detailed timeline leading up to and including the day that William 'disappeared'. I'm aware that this article would have been posted on this forum in the past.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/missing-boy-william-tyrrells-doomed-life/news-story/38baa59f1db54e441f01cc11a6af6eba

Some interesting points in the timeline:

18 September 2014: Foster mother picks up relative from Port Macquarie airport and suddenly remembers three strange cars being in Benaroon Drive before William’s disappearance.

17.3.2015: Foster mother gives third statement to police, with detailed descriptions of two cars, white and dark grey, she saw in the street on the day.

Was it no cars or 2 cars or 3 cars?

20.12.2015: Foster Mother says William’s sister may have been the only witness to abduction and that she knows a “bad person took William”.

Does this mean that FM and FGM were not supervising both William AND his sister?

I always believed that William ran off by himself? If Williams sister saw him get abducted she would surely run back and tell the carers??

The 20.12.2015 statement is very strange IMO.

 

[Lemony]

It sounds like every effort was made to gather as much info as possible from William’s sister, and it seems her recollection of events corroborated the adults statements. If anything was off in that walk through, eg. Evidence of coaching, it would’ve been picked up IMO, as would inconsistencies in any of her previous interactions with the police. There is no evidence of ‘silencing’, she was 4 years old and the details she gave were likely age appropriate.

 

[JBowie]

Some interesting points in the timeline:

18 September 2014: Foster mother picks up relative from Port Macquarie airport and suddenly remembers three strange cars being in Benaroon Drive before William’s disappearance.

17.3.2015: Foster mother gives third statement to police, with detailed descriptions of two cars, white and dark grey, she saw in the street on the day.

Was it no cars or 2 cars or 3 cars?

In the Overington book it's reported that she saw two cars. First when she opened the balcony door in the morning WT went missing and then when she says she suddenly remembers them on the trip back from the airport.

Then there was another car which she says did a U or 3-point turn at the end of Benaroon Drive and drove past her with the driver giving her a (IIRC) 'you looking at me?' type stare and she says the driver had a beer gut.

I don't have my copy of the book at hand at the moment to give the page numbers.

 

[KateM]

It sounds like every effort was made to gather as much info as possible from William’s sister, and it seems her recollection of events corroborated the adults statements. If anything was off in that walk through, eg. Evidence of coaching, it would’ve been picked up IMO, as would inconsistencies in any of her previous interactions with the police. There is no evidence of ‘silencing’, she was 4 years old and the details she gave were likely age appropriate.

No, she was actually 5 years of age.

 

[KateM]

In the Overington book it's reported that she saw two cars. First when she opened the balcony door in the morning WT went missing and then when she says she suddenly remembers them on the trip back from the airport.

Then there was another car which she says did a U or 3-point turn at the end of Benaroon Drive and drove past her with the driver giving her a (IIRC) 'you looking at me?' type stare and she says the driver had a beer gut.

I don't have my copy of the book at hand at the moment to give the page numbers.

 

[KateM]

Some interesting points in the timeline:

18 September 2014: Foster mother picks up relative from Port Macquarie airport and suddenly remembers three strange cars being in Benaroon Drive before William’s disappearance.

17.3.2015: Foster mother gives third statement to police, with detailed descriptions of two cars, white and dark grey, she saw in the street on the day.

Was it no cars or 2 cars or 3 cars?

20.12.2015: Foster Mother says William’s sister may have been the only witness to abduction and that she knows a “bad person took William”.

Does this mean that FM and FGM were not supervising both William AND his sister?

I always believed that William ran off by himself? If Williams sister saw him get abducted she would surely run back and tell the carers??

The 20.12.2015 statement is very strange IMO.

So many contradictions. Then in the early days the press was reporting that William disappeared when the FFC was making a cup of tea. Also that the FGM took William's sister to the toilet when William disappeared. I think from memory that Paul Savage also said that he was told that the FFC was making a cup of tea when William went missing?

 

[LolaAngelina]

So many contradictions. Then in the early days the press was reporting that William disappeared when the FFC was making a cup of tea. Also that the FGM took William's sister to the toilet when William disappeared. I think from memory that Paul Savage also said that he was told that the FFC was making a cup of tea when William went missing?

BBM yes many different stories were reported by the press. Not quoted by fm though.

 

[Lemony]

No, she was actually 5 years of age.

From CO podcast, ep. "Love and Loss" detailing Lindsay's walk through...
"At 10 past 3 on the 15th they walked her back through the scene, she was only 4"

 

[Sillybilly]

Sorry folks, a couple of posts were removed but reinstated after review.

 

[katydid23]

I have followed a lot of cases, just like many others here have. I don't think it is unusual that there are many differing stories on the day of the incident. Go to any thread here and look at the various inconsistent details in the first pages of an unfolding crime. It takes awhile to sort out the relevant facts.

Every person has their own perspective, their own memories, their own way of prioritising info----and it all comes together in kind of a mish mash. It is not unusual, in fact, it seems like it is the norm. JMO

Maybe they were making a cup of tea, maybe the daughter was taken into the loo, maybe William did run around the corner and went silent? I think all of these things could be happening simultaneously. JMO

 

[Awakening]

I have followed a lot of cases, just like many others here have. I don't think it is unusual that there are many differing stories on the day of the incident. Go to any thread here and look at the various inconsistent details in the first pages of an unfolding crime. It takes awhile to sort out the relevant facts.

Every person has their own perspective, their own memories, their own way of prioritising info----and it all comes together in kind of a mish mash. It is not unusual, in fact, it seems like it is the norm. JMO

Maybe they were making a cup of tea, maybe the daughter was taken into the loo, maybe William did run around the corner and went silent? I think all of these things could be happening simultaneously. JMO

I remember an interview with LE (in America, unrelated to this case) saying they became suspicious if peoples accounts of things were exactly or almost exactly the same. It generally meant they had rehearsed a story to tell the police. I found it fascinating that normally innocent people have different accounts of an incident. Obviously not wildly different, but inconsistencies, info left out, events in different order were common.

 

[seekingjustice**]

Perhaps the child's perception was deliberately manipulated.

To consider :

IF the timeline has been baubled, IF Wm went around the corner (at which time he met some manner of fatality) and the FFFC went that direction (perhaps keeping up the illusion that the mommy-monster game were continuing) (possibly escaping undetected in the the FFGma's car), before returning to the deck, calmly making tea, then making the statement about Wm being too quiet and heading around the corner (for the second time), compressing two events into one, Little Sister may have  perceived Wm disappearing as a relatively spontaneous event, as if Wm was there and then *poof* he was not, when in reality, 20-30 minutes may have elapsed, of which she was wholly unaware and of which, as a five year old, she'd have no way to quantify/qualify the passage of much or little time.

She might, however, be able to peel layers apart seven years later...

JMO

Yes I can definitely see that happening - it would not be hard to influence a child's memory due to the fact that children have a very limited concept of time at 5 years of age.

 

[Warshawski]

Just listened again to the "One Last Roar" episode, from the "Where's William" podcast. When Lia is asked about William's sister re the day William disappeared her answer was brief and vague. The policewoman who interviewed William's sister asked her if William had any hiding places, to which the sister said not that she knew of and that she couldn't offer police any information to help them re that day. I find this quite odd. William's sister was 5 years old at the time he went missing. Why have we never heard exactly where she was at the precise moment he disappeared? There has been conflicting media reports regarding this. Why couldn't the sister say more about what she was doing just before William disappeared?

I’m also intrigued by this KateM. You mentioned just earlier that you rewatched the FFGM’s walkthrough. When I viewed that video, one of the things that struck me as unusual was that FFGM could not answer categorically the question about Lindsay’s whereabouts - a question that was asked of her a few times.

IMO, the offhand ‘oh she must’ve been following me’ was quite dismissive of the child’s being, presence & capacity for any worthwhile contribution to the puzzle of her brother’s disappearance.

She was 5 years old, and not a baby (NSW kids are allowed to start school on the first day of first term as long as they turn 5 by July 31 that year). My experience with 5 year olds, particularly girls, tells me that they are pretty switched on! She may very well have had more to say to Police in the early years than has been made public, and I think that’s fair enough.

There’s also the possibility that as she’s grown older she‘s become more memory conscious, more aware, more confident, more vocal - & could have had quite a lot to say - be it to LE, friends or confidants.

 

[Warshawski]

Police walked Lindsay back through the scene on the afternoon of the 15th Sept.
Police had created a diversion, using a press conference to keep media away from the house so that Lindsay wouldn't be photographed.
Lindsay was asked when and where she'd last seen her brother, she told police that they'd been out on the deck, he'd been roaring like a tiger, then he ran off and she didn't see him again.

She'd also been spoken to be police in the days prior to the walk through.

This is information from Caroline Overington's podcast

I personally find the media output to be unaligned / confusing & it befuddles me the ‘Chinese whispers’ that appear to have made their way into MSM - which unfortunately is all we can discuss.
I’ve read many conflicting reports of what the children were doing that morning & many have said that both were engaged in a game of ‘tigers / hide’n seek / chasey‘ etc.

e.g. William was three years old when he disappeared in 2014 while playing with his five-year-old sister in the front yard of his foster grandmother’s home in Kendall.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/nsw-detectives-to-renew-search-for-missing-boy-william-tyrrell/news-story/09f79b307ae14a882a93a144a9123785

So IMO the Million $ question remains - what did really go on

 

[KateM]

I’m also intrigued by this KateM. You mentioned just earlier that you rewatched the FFGM’s walkthrough. When I viewed that video, one of the things that struck me as unusual was that FFGM could not answer categorically the question about Lindsay’s whereabouts - a question that was asked of her a few times.

IMO, the offhand ‘oh she must’ve been following me’ was quite dismissive of the child’s being, presence & capacity for any worthwhile contribution to the puzzle of her brother’s disappearance.

She was 5 years old, and not a baby (NSW kids are allowed to start school on the first day of first term as long as they turn 5 by July 31 that year). My experience with 5 year olds, particularly girls, tells me that they are pretty switched on! She may very well have had more to say to Police in the early years than has been made public, and I think that’s fair enough.

There’s also the possibility that as she’s grown older she‘s become more memory conscious, more aware, more confident, more vocal - & could have had quite a lot to say - be it to LE, friends or confidants.

I just watched the video again if the FGM's walk through. I only heard the policewoman ask her once what was Lindsay doing, when they were both sitting on the back porch and the FGM didn't answer. Is there another longer video of the walk through?

 

[k-mac]

I’m also intrigued by this KateM. You mentioned just earlier that you rewatched the FFGM’s walkthrough. When I viewed that video, one of the things that struck me as unusual was that FFGM could not answer categorically the question about Lindsay’s whereabouts - a question that was asked of her a few times.

IMO, the offhand ‘oh she must’ve been following me’ was quite dismissive of the child’s being, presence & capacity for any worthwhile contribution to the puzzle of her brother’s disappearance.

She was 5 years old, and not a baby (NSW kids are allowed to start school on the first day of first term as long as they turn 5 by July 31 that year). My experience with 5 year olds, particularly girls, tells me that they are pretty switched on! She may very well have had more to say to Police in the early years than has been made public, and I think that’s fair enough.

There’s also the possibility that as she’s grown older she‘s become more memory conscious, more aware, more confident, more vocal - & could have had quite a lot to say - be it to LE, friends or confidants.

This is very true.
At 5 she is still impressionable and easily influenced but......
deep down....her 5 yr old maturity, intelligence and comprehension will know alot.

From personal experience I suspect LT knows alot and as her mind and character has grown so has her voice.

From the current climate and issues for her.....it isn't far reaching at all to conclude LT is key to finding her little brother. IMO.

Alot for a little girl to carry around on her shoulders.

moo

 

[KateM]

He added that during his time on the case, they investigated “every theory” including that William may have been hit by a car in the driveway, fallen over and hit his head on a rock or fallen off the balcony, but he said any theory had to be backed up with facts.

“I can’t recall the specific details but we certainly flagged there was a possibility that there was an accident that was covered up,” he said.

‘NO SIGNS’: Gary Jubelin defends William Tyrrell’s foster parents as he reveals ‘covert operation’

The former lead detective on the case says he planted a listening device in the foster parents’ car that ‘eliminated’ them as suspects.

7news.com.au

So just how throughly did Jubelin's team investigate the accident theories? He can't even remember any details re same. Remember this was 5 months after William disappeared...

 

[SouthAussie]

This is very true.
At 5 she is still impressionable and easily influenced but......
deep down....her 5 yr old maturity, intelligence and comprehension will know alot.

From personal experience I suspect LT knows alot and as her mind and character has grown so has her voice.

From the current climate and issues for her.....it isn't far reaching at all to conclude LT is key to finding her little brother. IMO.

Alot for a little girl to carry around on her shoulders.

moo

Unfortunately, sister will probably make a poor witness to William's disappearance.

Any current changed recall - if there is any - will be questioned due to being 4 (or 5, depending what article you go by) years old at the time.

While it is "only" 7½ years ago (to us), to her it is over half her lifetime ago.

She may have unwittingly been subject to external coercion in more recent times. Internet, peers, bio family, social 'advocates'.

Sure, it would be great if she remembered something useful, after all these years.

But any defence lawyer will make mincemeat out of any 'new' testimony she may give in a court of law.

I think hanging on to hope that sister may be a useful witness is only hanging on by a thin thread. No matter who is responsible for William's disappaearance (if anyone).

imo