Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #47

[SouthAussie]

It's also honourable to speak for those who can't speak and navigate the system for themselves. Not to thwart justice, but because they should have the opportunity to state their side of the matter.

Unfortunately, justice is too often thwarted. One day the system will honour the victims, I hope. Truth serum would be a good way to go about it imo - if such a thing truly exists. The innocent should not object to that. But I am sure some flaw would be found in that method.

 

[Karinna]

Unfortunately, justice is too often thwarted. One day the system will honour the victims, I hope. Truth serum would be a good way to go about it imo - if such a thing truly exists. The innocent should not object to that. But I am sure some flaw would be found in that method.

Or Brain Fingerprinting
(quote)
Could brain fingerprinting solve Australia's cold cases?
Could brain fingerprinting solve Australia's cold cases?

 

[Karinna]

Yes, and sometimes justice is never achieved due to that skewing.
A good thing to remember in historical cases, like Spedding's, when the youngest victim even named her abuser.

Unfortunately IMO that case should of been dealt with around the time it happened. I know they said about the age of the victims, but it's not like very young victims would have to testify in court. There would of been medical reports etc. to take the case to Trial. And so many years later valuable information from the police at the time had been lost too. We also weren't privy to what exactly transpired in the more current court cases with BS, except he wasn't convicted.

 

[kiwi50]

I’m sure there isnt much satisfaction in being a defence lawyer, when you know your client is guilty.
One of NZs top defence lawyers took his own life.
He gave some insights into why he did it in his suicide note.
Defence lawyer Greg King was 'haunted' by crimes
He was such a good guy, I wish he had become a judge or prosecutor.
RIP Greg.

 

[Thebottomline]

I’m sure there isnt much satisfaction in being a defence lawyer, when you know your client is guilty.
One of NZs top defence lawyers took his own life.
He gave some insights into why he did it in his suicide note.
Defence lawyer Greg King was 'haunted' by crimes
He was such a good guy, I wish he had become a judge or prosecutor.
RIP Greg.

That’s very sad

 

[they'll get you]

I’m sure there isnt much satisfaction in being a defence lawyer, when you know your client is guilty.
One of NZs top defence lawyers took his own life.
He gave some insights into why he did it in his suicide note.
Defence lawyer Greg King was 'haunted' by crimes
He was such a good guy, I wish he had become a judge or prosecutor.
RIP Greg.

That was like a punch in the guts kiwi50.
His wife “said saw his death as a by-product of his genius.”

RIP.

 

[Wexford]

I tried to put up a little published info before about the good local reputation that Dean has, but it was snipped due to the mention of f_m_ly.

That's a pity. He seems an interesting character. I would like to know why he changed his story or even why he said he saw the van in the first place.

 

[RubyHill]

I’m sure there isnt much satisfaction in being a defence lawyer, when you know your client is guilty.
One of NZs top defence lawyers took his own life.
He gave some insights into why he did it in his suicide note.
Defence lawyer Greg King was 'haunted' by crimes
He was such a good guy, I wish he had become a judge or prosecutor.
RIP Greg.

That is sad.

 

[Wexford]

Was it a recording of Savage talking to someone else or Savage talking to Jubes? If the latter maybe he was happy to give the information when recording was done, but then something happened that made him change his mind after the fact?

Edited to add - this reeks of professional jealousy to me. IMO

Now this is something I have given some thought to. The information in MSM gives one the impression that he was talking to Savage and that at least one of the recorded calls was well over an hour....but consider this as a possibility....perhaps he did ring Savage (or Savage rang him) and at the end of the call Savage did not disconnect and there was an interesting conversation left on the open line (in person or a call made on a different phone)? There is no time to get permission to record but this conversation is well worth noting. How this all came to light is another question and there was also the accusation of falsifying affadavits too.

 

[SouthAussie]

Now this is something I have given some thought to. The information in MSM gives one the impression that he was talking to Savage and that at least one of the recorded calls was well over an hour....but consider this as a possibility....perhaps he did ring Savage (or Savage rang him) and at the end of the call Savage did not disconnect and there was an interesting conversation left on the open line (in person or a call made on a different phone)? There is no time to get permission to record but this conversation is well worth noting. How this all came to light is another question and there was also the accusation of falsifying affadavits too.

Interesting thought. 'Overhearing' a private conversation. I would love to know what is in Heather's statement and if that is what gave Jubes pause for thought.

 

[SouthAussie]

That's a pity. He seems an interesting character. I would like to know why he changed his story or even why he said he saw the van in the first place.

Yes, well it has made me wonder what vehicle Geoff Owen has, and if Frank Abbott ever drove it. It would have been good to have heard all of Geoff Owen's testimony before the inquest was adjourned until next year.

Because if it wasn't Spedding's vehicle, whose vehicle was it? And why did the driver duck down and give the appearance that they were avoiding being identified/seen? That was a detail that I wonder if Dean would have added, if he hadn't seen a van.

 

[SLouTh]

Geoff Owen said at the inquest he drives a Mazda 626..

 

[SouthAussie]

Geoff Owen said at the inquest he drives a Mazda 626..

So no work van? Just does all of his materials carrying in a little 626?
Just rhetorical questions, because it is probably not yet publicly known if there is/was another vehicle in addition to the 626.

 

[Shadow@light]

IMO the fact that WT was a fostered child and ward of the state has done nothing to help this case obtain resolution. It has made it even more complex with all the secrecy & suppression involved, and i really don't think it has helped get to the truth of the matter unfortunately for the little victim caught in the all the nuances of this case.

I do agree with you Karinna.
The Child Services delayed and hindered when William went missing.
It has not been the first time that it has happened
I was stunned that this protocol was still being used as much of the Welfare has got a overhaul over the years.
I say this from experience as a former Welfare and state Ward of 1970's &1980's my Grandparents lost me for a few years and family members tried to find me but were blocked it took a few years before I was able to contact them. My Grandparents had a family secret, which the Welfare Officer threaten them that he would use it in court if they did not give me and my siblings up.
(Long story of family history still researching it, I moved on with my life took it as a learning experience)
During this time Children Home whose control I was under there, was a young girl who was grabbed raped by four men(she will still living at the home and this happened on an outing) The Welfare never reported to the police.
From what I learn from other Girls this was not the first time it happened.
In High School I was attacked by a 13 year old boy for no reason, I fought back.
It was witnessed by teacher and kids in my classroom the situation was dealt with with the Headmaster.
Yet a week later the Mother of the boy filed a complaint about me attacking her boy for no reason so the Home punished me.
They had a pretty nasty punishment it broke many children) even after the school told the Welfare the boy was at fault," no" they said" That I had to learn not to fight and hurt people regardless of the situation."
Later on, I was removed from a family I was in care with as the Welfare were informed by Neighbours and the School, they should reported to the Police but they did not just swept it under the carpet.

I can see the Foster Family loved little William, and he was a happy child. It brought tears to my eyes.
But the restrictions placed on them, they Foster Family and Birth Family when the first alert was came out it , so many people had and still judge them although both parties have been cleared.
I still in contact with a foster family I stayed with for a short time and they are still part of my life.

Sometimes it does not take blood or DNA to make a family, but a love can bind a family together

I have yet to see some one from the Child Service at the court hope it will be when things resume with answers
I hope the Corner at the end this will recommend a new set guide lines in regarding of such situation of any children in care.
Praying and hope for William .

 

[SouthAussie]

I do agree with you Karinna.
The Child Services delayed and hindered when William went missing.
It has not been the first time that it has happened
I was stunned that this protocol was still being used as much of the Welfare has got a overhaul over the years.
I say this from experience as a former Welfare and state Ward of 1970's &1980's my Grandparents lost me for a few years and family members tried to find me but were blocked it took a few years before I was able to contact them. My Grandparents had a family secret, which the Welfare Officer threaten them that he would use it in court if they did not give me and my siblings up.
(Long story of family history still researching it, I moved on with my life took it as a learning experience)
During this time Children Home whose control I was under there, was a young girl who was grabbed raped by four men(she will still living at the home and this happened on an outing) The Welfare never reported to the police.
From what I learn from other Girls this was not the first time it happened.
In High School I was attacked by a 13 year old boy for no reason, I fought back.
It was witnessed by teacher and kids in my classroom the situation was dealt with with the Headmaster.
Yet a week later the Mother of the boy filed a complaint about me attacking her boy for no reason so the Home punished me.
They had a pretty nasty punishment it broke many children) even after the school told the Welfare the boy was at fault," no" they said" That I had to learn not to fight and hurt people regardless of the situation."
Later on, I was removed from a family I was in care with as the Welfare were informed by Neighbours and the School, they should reported to the Police but they did not just swept it under the carpet.

I can see the Foster Family loved little William, and he was a happy child. It brought tears to my eyes.
But the restrictions placed on them, they Foster Family and Birth Family when the first alert was came out it , so many people had and still judge them although both parties have been cleared.
I still in contact with a foster family I stayed with for a short time and they are still part of my life.

Sometimes it does not take blood or DNA to make a family, but a love can bind a family together

I have yet to see some one from the Child Service at the court hope it will be when things resume with answers
I hope the Corner at the end this will recommend a new set guide lines in regarding of such situation of any children in care.
Praying and hope for William .

Thanks, Shadow. You have a very balanced and fair outlook, and seem to have yourself together despite a tough start to life. Best wishes to you for always.

 

[sosocurious]

Geoff Owen said at the inquest he drives a Mazda 626..

A white one wasn't it?

 

[SouthAussie]

Unfortunately IMO that case should of been dealt with around the time it happened. I know they said about the age of the victims, but it's not like very young victims would have to testify in court. There would of been medical reports etc. to take the case to Trial. And so many years later valuable information from the police at the time had been lost too. We also weren't privy to what exactly transpired in the more current court cases with BS, except he wasn't convicted.

There is some really sad stuff written about the requirement of child victims to testify back in 1987.

First of all a judge would need to deem if they were fit to testify
Then, if not testifying their evidence would need to be corroborated by a witness
Then, the judge had a mandatory requirement to caution the jury of the 'dangers of convicting based on the evidence of a child'
Also, hearsay was not allowed ... so a parent could not testify about anything the child told them

In the UK this did not change until 1988, when video testimony was allowed (Aussie laws very much mirror/ed UK laws).
In NSW, it was 1990 before video testimony was allowed.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/SydLawRw/1993/24.pdf

 

[SLouTh]

A white one wasn't it?

They didn’t ask the colour at the inquest.., or if they did it was suppressed.., ( as I was hoping it may have been blue.... hence my remembering it)

 

[sosocurious]

They didn’t ask the colour at the inquest.., or if they did it was suppressed.., ( as I was hoping it may have been blue.... hence my remembering it)

Lia Harris‏Verified account @LiaJHarris Aug 13
Mr Spedding’s lawyer is now questioning Mr McInally about the sighting. He told the court he was in a “bad boating accident” six months before he told Mr Palmer about the car. @10NewsFirst @10Daily


Lia Harris‏Verified account @LiaJHarris Aug 13
He is asked if he knew Bill Spedding and he tells the court he didn’t. He is also asked if he knew Mr Owen drove a White sedan and he said he didn’t. @10NewsFirst @10Daily
BBM

 

[Karinna]

I do agree with you Karinna.
The Child Services delayed and hindered when William went missing.
It has not been the first time that it has happened
I was stunned that this protocol was still being used as much of the Welfare has got a overhaul over the years.
I say this from experience as a former Welfare and state Ward of 1970's &1980's my Grandparents lost me for a few years and family members tried to find me but were blocked it took a few years before I was able to contact them. My Grandparents had a family secret, which the Welfare Officer threaten them that he would use it in court if they did not give me and my siblings up.
(Long story of family history still researching it, I moved on with my life took it as a learning experience)
During this time Children Home whose control I was under there, was a young girl who was grabbed raped by four men(she will still living at the home and this happened on an outing) The Welfare never reported to the police.
From what I learn from other Girls this was not the first time it happened.
In High School I was attacked by a 13 year old boy for no reason, I fought back.
It was witnessed by teacher and kids in my classroom the situation was dealt with with the Headmaster.
Yet a week later the Mother of the boy filed a complaint about me attacking her boy for no reason so the Home punished me.
They had a pretty nasty punishment it broke many children) even after the school told the Welfare the boy was at fault," no" they said" That I had to learn not to fight and hurt people regardless of the situation."
Later on, I was removed from a family I was in care with as the Welfare were informed by Neighbours and the School, they should reported to the Police but they did not just swept it under the carpet.

I can see the Foster Family loved little William, and he was a happy child. It brought tears to my eyes.
But the restrictions placed on them, they Foster Family and Birth Family when the first alert was came out it , so many people had and still judge them although both parties have been cleared.
I still in contact with a foster family I stayed with for a short time and they are still part of my life.

Sometimes it does not take blood or DNA to make a family, but a love can bind a family together

I have yet to see some one from the Child Service at the court hope it will be when things resume with answers
I hope the Corner at the end this will recommend a new set guide lines in regarding of such situation of any children in care.
Praying and hope for William .

Thanks for sharing your story of your experiences within the system Shadow@light.
It is good you had a positive experience with your carers and you stay in touch.
I must admit i am no fan of some of these systems, because i sometimes think they have too much power over other people's lives.
And agree it needs an overhaul especially when it comes to transparency regarding missing or abused children in care.