Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #47

[JLZ]

Karinna and others: in the first (?) podcast FFC went into a lot of detail on what happened between taking the photographs and William disappearing. I think Beacroft's opinion on the timing may be based on a close assessment of how long those things would have taken.

 

[Karinna]

Karinna and others: in the first (?) podcast FFC went into a lot of detail on what happened between taking the photographs and William disappearing. I think Beacroft's opinion on the timing may be based on a close assessment of how long those things would have taken.

Yes i don't think the timeline would be that much different IMO.

 

[Cleaver Greene]

could det laura beacroft have an eyewitness (ps?) to events happening within her specific time frame, one report said between 10.05 to 10.15, and this article says 10.05 to 10.20, so it could just be a 10 minute window where something was witnessed and if ps witnessed it, could explain all his questioning and also the closed court questioning and why gj was recording him, just hoping he may repeat something hed said at an earlier time before all the media attention on him?
Mystery over last photo of William Tyrrell

The court being closed for so much of his evidence could well be because he is giving some evidence that is “sensitive”, either for operational reasons or as an informant. He may have some information that police want to keep suppressed because it may further investigations. If he has disclosed something that could change the direction of the investigation, such as a time different to that originally thought, that’s a good reason to close the court.

 

[Sillybilly]

Yes please share your facts? Who was it? And everything i say is my opinion, sorry if i left that out.

Websleuths requires that members make it very clear that what they post is their opinion (i.e. JMO, MOO, IMO, I believe, I think, etc). The rule applies to all members, no exceptions.

 

[Cleaver Greene]

On the topic of closing courts, there is always a tension between the parties, who want the court closed as much as possible, and the media who want access. The principle of “justice must be seen to be done” applies in Australia, so courts want to limit suppression orders and court closures.

I don’t know where the line is drawn between suppression and closure. Every time a party wants information suppressed, there is an application by the party and the judge makes a ruling. If a party makes an application for court closure, then the judge would have to consider whether a suppression order would suffice. Court closure is a pretty drastic step.

There are some cases, varying amongst the states, where there is always a court closure without an application for it. Such as when a person applies for an AVO, or when a victim of a sex offence is giving evidence.

Maybe someone who was at the inquest could tell us who made the application for the court to be closed. I assume it was either the Police it PS lawyer.

 

[Thebottomline]

Sorry meant to like not hit reply

 

[purpleandgreen]

deleted

 

[drsleuth]

On the topic of closing courts, there is always a tension between the parties, who want the court closed as much as possible, and the media who want access. The principle of “justice must be seen to be done” applies in Australia, so courts want to limit suppression orders and court closures.

I don’t know where the line is drawn between suppression and closure. Every time a party wants information suppressed, there is an application by the party and the judge makes a ruling. If a party makes an application for court closure, then the judge would have to consider whether a suppression order would suffice. Court closure is a pretty drastic step.

There are some cases, varying amongst the states, where there is always a court closure without an application for it. Such as when a person applies for an AVO, or when a victim of a sex offence is giving evidence.

Maybe someone who was at the inquest could tell us who made the application for the court to be closed. I assume it was either the Police it PS lawyer.

We weren't told why the court was closed every time ( & there was alot IMO ) we were just told that there now needed to be closed court & we were all herded in & out like browns cows

I assume it was CA & the coroner who wanted the court closed most times as other legal teams were locked out also.

Court was obviously closed for a good reason & I do support that if it leads to finding out what happened to poor William, as frustrating as it was for everyone , as long as the coroner is hearing all the evidence I'm ok with that

The media made submissions against closed court of course , but never "won" any...............

 

[Cleaver Greene]

We weren't told why the court was closed every time ( & there was alot IMO ) we were just told that there now needed to be closed court & we were all herded in & out like browns cows

I assume it was CA & the coroner who wanted the court closed most times as other legal teams were locked out also.

Court was obviously closed for a good reason & I do support that if it leads to finding out what happened to poor William, as frustrating as it was for everyone , as long as the coroner is hearing all the evidence I'm ok with that

The media made submissions against closed court of course , but never "won" any...............

Do you remember what happened immediately before the court was closed, ie, which witnesses were giving evidence or what topics had been discussed? Were police lawyers also excluded from court when it was closed? I know it’s a lot of questions.

 

[SLouTh]

Do you remember what happened immediately before the court was closed, ie, which witnesses were giving evidence or what topics had been discussed? Were police lawyers also excluded from court when it was closed? I know it’s a lot of questions.

What a good thought Cleaver! It would be great to make a list of when the court was closed and who was there... a great new approach to taking discussions forward ... IMO ..

I have read the court was closed for the last part of Mr Savages testimony.

And also Mr Owen - although he may have been dismissed by the Coroner like Donahoe was??

But Dr Sleuth might remember who stayed .. and who else ??

 

[Warshawski]

I don't believe I have ever read an MSM article which quoted Fehon or police stating W's scent was found within the yard, or that W's scent wasn't found past the curb/driveway/property edge. Could be wrong, but I don't recall that. They were however, reported to have said that no scent was found, period.

Neither police sniffer dogs nor cadaver dogs had been able to pick up any sign of the boy, Fehon said.
William Tyrell search: police say sniffer dogs have found no trace of boy

Police Strike Force Rosann has been established as sniffer dogs fail to pick up any scent of William Tyrell, five days after he went missing on the NSW mid north coast.
....
Superintendent Paul Fehon says neither police sniffer dogs nor cadaver dogs have been able to pick up any sign of the boy, fuelling fears he may not have wandered away from home.
UPDATE: STRIKE FORCE SET UP AS SNIFFER DOGS FAIL TO PICK UP SCENT OF WILLIAM TYRELL | NBN News

Here's one article D
The day William Tyrrell vanished

 

[SLouTh]

What a good thought Cleaver! It would be great to make a list of when the court was closed and who was there... a great new approach to taking discussions forward ... IMO ..

I have read the court was closed for the last part of Mr Savages testimony.
And also Mr Owen
But Dr Sleuth might remember who stayed .. and who else ??

On the 20th August ...
Detective Lara Beacroft gave evidence in closed court.... (sorry can’t remember her actual rank)
This is per Lia Harris tweet ..
She took the stand at 10.48 and then closed at 10.49

 

[SLouTh]

On the 20th August ...
Detective Lara Beacroft gave evidence in closed court.... (sorry can’t remember her actual rank)
This is per Lia Harris tweet ..
She took the stand at 10.48 and then closed at 10.49

Also it was closed again with Beacroft the day before that .. the 19th August ....
Just after this.....

“The court is being shown a questionnaire handed to residents by police in 2015, which included a question about who was present at their properties on the day William vanished. @10NewsFirst @10Daily”

I’m just trying to find evidence of when the court was closed and then maybe we can collate it all??

And hopefully some one who was there can remember who stayed and who didn’t ...? As per Cleaver...

 

[SLouTh]

“The court is being shown a questionnaire handed to residents by police in 2015, which included a question about who was present at their properties on the day William vanished. @10NewsFirst @10Daily”
..

I’ve also been very curious about the questions on this questionnaire... if anyone knows what details the police were looking for?

When it was shown to the court on the 19th August were you able to read all of the questions?? Or was it just held up, like in an evidence bag???

I have read that one of the questions was about tradesmen visiting the home in the year leading up to Williams disappearance... but does anyone know any others???

Thanks
IMO

 

[Thebottomline]

Remember Jubes kept saying “ someone knows “ I always thought that was directed at someone. Some lone wolf predator could have kept this whole thing to themselves. Seems he had reason to believe someone else knew

 

[Thebottomline]

What a good thought Cleaver! It would be great to make a list of when the court was closed and who was there... a great new approach to taking discussions forward ... IMO ..

I have read the court was closed for the last part of Mr Savages testimony.

And also Mr Owen - although he may have been dismissed by the Coroner like Donahoe was??

But Dr Sleuth might remember who stayed .. and who else ??

Court seemed closed so many times . Could some listed have appeared without media knowing ?

 

[SLouTh]

Court seemed closed so many times . Could some listed have appeared without media knowing ?

Yes I definitely think so as one day it was announced it would be closed entirely for the next day ... with no details of who was there or what for....
IMO

 

[Warshawski]

Do you remember what happened immediately before the court was closed, ie, which witnesses were giving evidence or what topics had been discussed? Were police lawyers also excluded from court when it was closed? I know it’s a lot of questions.

Glad you asked them Cleaver. I've wanted to but I tend to come across a bit confrontational

 

[deugirtni]

Here's one article D
The day William Tyrrell vanished

All I can see in that article is the following, which is not Fehon nor police stating, it is the reporter writing it:

At 48 Benaroon Drive, police sniffer dogs picked up William's scent, but only within the boundaries of the property.

Whereas I can find reports attributed to Fehon and/or the police saying they found no trace.

Neither police sniffer dogs nor cadaver dogs have been able to pick up any sign of the boy, Supt Fehon said.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/09/16/dogs-fail-to-find-william-tyrell-scent.html

 

[Warshawski]

On the 20th August ...
Detective Lara Beacroft gave evidence in closed court.... (sorry can’t remember her actual rank)
This is per Lia Harris tweet ..
She took the stand at 10.48 and then closed at 10.49

I find this interesting, especially in respect of the closed court for her the day before supposedly in relation to the questionnaire.

It's my belief that Det. Beacroft was on the scene relatively early in the investigation of William's disappearance so may have some worthwhile 'raw' information (for want of a better word - just meaning before it all got ramped up, traipsed over, media trumped, considered & reflected on etc) IMO