Autopsy

[jumpstreet]

Bingo !

I was thinking perhaps Nancy herself was attempting to put on her jogging bra - as in getting ready to go jog, and someone did not approve at that point. her hands may as well have been tied if one thinks about it.

I wonder if one wanted it to "look like" it was random, would it make sense to leave her this way? (Bra pulled up over head, no shorts, shoes). The no shoes part especially is weird to me.

 

[reddress58]

Bingo !

I was thinking perhaps Nancy herself was attempting to put on her jogging bra - as in getting ready to go jog, and someone did not approve at that point. her hands may as well have been tied if one thinks about it.

However, I still don't believe she planned to run. I think she was going to paint. Not sure if she'd wear running attire to paint in. Jessica would know that.

 

[Just the Fax]

Bingo !

I was thinking perhaps Nancy herself was attempting to put on her jogging bra - as in getting ready to go jog, and someone did not approve at that point. her hands may as well have been tied if one thinks about it.

I would ask what time her usual 'early am' Saturday jogs were.
If she often left around 6 am, that very well could be the case.
....assuming he 1st went to the HT at 6:15 am after dumping the body.

 

[reddress58]

I wonder if one wanted it to "look like" it was random, would it make sense to leave her this way? (Bra pulled up over head, no shorts, shoes). The no shoes part especially is weird to me.

He could very well have been in the process of "dressing" her when he got the call from Jessica. Maybe he didn't have time to add the rest of her running attire and felt pressure to dispose of her ASAP.

ETA: This is assuming she was killed around 7 like RC suspects.

 

[raisincharlie]

I wonder if one wanted it to "look like" it was random, would it make sense to leave her this way? (Bra pulled up over head, no shorts, shoes). The no shoes part especially is weird to me.

This is not in line with a random crime - in terms of sense. Why would anyone take her running clothes, shoes and socks (if she were wearing socks) ?

 

[jumpstreet]

However, I still don't believe she planned to run. I think she was going to paint. Not sure if she'd wear running attire to paint in. Jessica would know that.

Fairly sure that CM (or someone) reported that at the party NC had mentioned plans for a Saturday AM run (presumably before the painting). Certainly it's possible she (NC) changed her mind about running, and also possible that CM (or whoever it was) misspoke or mis-recalled. [ But the data that we have is a statement that NC had shared with friends of plans to run Saturday AM, for what that's worth... ]

 

[raisincharlie]

I would ask what time her usual 'early am' Saturday jogs were.
If she often left around 6 am, that very well could be the case.
....assuming he 1st went to the HT at 6:15 am after dumping the body.

I recall reading somewhere, perhaps JA's affidavit, that the run Nancy had scheduled the day before was to start at 5:45 am - this was the run that was cancelled. Will see if I can find that reference.

 

[jumpstreet]

This is not in line with a random crime - in terms of sense. Why would anyone take her running clothes, shoes and socks (if she were wearing socks) ?

Agreed. (and yeah, in my mind Theory C is totally off the table now). Maybe I'm over thinking it... but why would someone who wanted to make it look like a random crime leave her this way? [ Someone crafty enough to stage mobile phone calls, and alibi trips to HT? ]

 

[SleuthyGal]

If she had plans to paint at 8am (and if she was usually on time to such things) then any 'running' she did would likely have been before 7am. Also this was July 12th...it gets quite warm out for running as the time progresses.

 

[jumpstreet]

He could very well have been in the process of "dressing" her when he got the call from Jessica. Maybe he didn't have time to add the rest of her running attire and felt pressure to dispose of her ASAP.

ETA: This is assuming she was killed around 7 like RC suspects.

Killed around 7, but then moved to the discovery site after the call from Jessica (mid-morning). That one seems a stretch. Surely the girls were up by this time?

 

[reddress58]

Agreed. (and yeah, in my mind Theory C is totally off the table now). Maybe I'm over thinking it... but why would someone who wanted to make it look like a random crime leave her this way? [ Someone crafty enough to stage mobile phone calls, and alibi trips to HT? ]

I doubt Brad has ever raped a women so therefore would have no idea what attire a rapped woman would be wearing after the crime.

 

[SleuthyGal]

In a random crime the perp would not care about such things like a tshirt, shorts, socks & shoes. Meaning, they wouldn't go to some trouble to hide/discard them.

Also, according to the autopsy there was no injury to her cervix--another indication of no sexual trauma.

 

[Just the Fax]

I doubt Brad has ever raped a women so therefore would have no idea what attire a rapped woman would be wearing after the crime.

The 'rapist' only pushed her bra up to expose her breasts, but decided to totally remove her shorts, socks and shoes :waitasec:

 

[jumpstreet]

I doubt Brad has ever raped a women so therefore would have no idea what attire a rapped woman would be wearing after the crime.

You're probably right. He probably just assumed that most random killers would take the shoes.

 

[jilly]

That poor woman!

I think BC tried to dress her. Although, putting that sports bra on must have been a challenge for him if he put it over her head especially with dead weight. Those things don't have much 'give' at the bottom to get over the shoulders- I put mine on by stepping into them. Nancy was slim. He must have been interrupted or something and just got her into the vehicle.

He was obviously trying to make it look like the killer had rape in mind. Yeah, I agree...like a murderer is going to take a victim's shoes and socks.

I had to look up the 'hyoid bone' - A U-shaped bone at the base of the tongue that supports the muscles of the tongue. That must have occurred because of the pressure he applied for strangulation?

 

[raisincharlie]

That poor woman!

I think BC tried to dress her. Although, putting that sports bra on must have been a challenge for him if he put it over her head especially with dead weight. Those things don't have much 'give' at the bottom to get over the shoulders- I put mine on by stepping into them. Nancy was slim. He must have been interrupted or something and just got her into the vehicle.

He was obviously trying to make it look like the killer had rape in mind. Yeah, I agree...like a murderer is going to take a victim's shoes and socks.

I had to look up the 'hyoid bone' - A U-shaped bone at the base of the tongue that supports the muscles of the tongue. That must have occurred because of the pressure he applied for strangulation?

Ms. Jilly :blowkiss:

The hyoid bone often is damaged during strangulation efforts, it becomes more subject to damage with age as well. It does not take a great deal of effort to damage this skeletal component. One thing I do know - I hope they get this sucker for premeditation - it can take up to 4 minutes to kill someone this way. In four minutes one has plenty of time to make a decision to stop and seek assistance for the victim. He definitely meant to kill her.

 

[mahmoo]

Autopsy states she was wearing only one glass stud earring.......will be very telling if LE found the mate to that earring in the Cooper's home. More than likely he would not have noticed she had on only one earring when disposing of her and therefore would not have known to search the room for the missing earring.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I hope they get this sucker for premeditation - it can take up to 4 minutes to kill someone this way. In four minutes one has plenty of time to make a decision to stop and seek assistance for the victim. He definitely meant to kill her.

Yes. This may well qualify as 'premeditated' even if it wasn't preplanned.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Autopsy states she was wearing only one glass stud earring.......will be very telling if LE found the mate to that earring in the Cooper's home.

Nothing was mentioned in the items seized list...

 

[SleuthyGal]

That poor woman!

I think BC tried to dress her. Although, putting that sports bra on must have been a challenge for him if he put it over her head

I agree with this theory. Getting a sports bra on and over the shoulders is a LOT of work even when you're alive and trying to put one on. I think he got it as far down as he could and gave up (rather than the opposite of pulling it up to stage it).