AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe, 15 Jun 2013 - #8

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From what I am reading, charges can come from a "direct complaint" from the prosecutor's office or a grand jury, in AZ. Not sure if this is accurate but it is how I am reading it.

http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/superiorcourt/criminaldepartment/caseprocedures.asp

Doc, what I meant in my last post if that IF they already had enough evidence against a suspect, even if not for murder, we may have seen abduction charges, such as in the case of Alexis Murphy. They charged that suspect right away and still have not found her. So that is partly why I am doubtful they have solid evidence linking anyone to her abduction or murder at this time. JMO

Revised it....Kidnapping couldn't be charged under Az law because LE would have to meet one or more of the conditions under ARS. 13-1304. They have to connect the remains to the perp, otherwise it's nothing but conjecture. They might be able to prove Adrienne got into someone's vehicle, but that doesn't constitute a kidnapping unless they can prove she was then "knowingly restrained" for the purpose of any offenses listed in subsec A.1-6.
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/search/oop/qfullhit.asp?CiWebHitsFile=/ars/13/01304.htm&CiRestriction=%22kidnapping+%22
My bad, didn't shift gears :facepalm:
 
Good morning everyone!
Catching up and have some questions and thoughts...

RE the cabbie that was shot, been wondering why the perp did it? Could he have been scared cabbie recognized him after release of video? I would hope that cab drivers are made aware of people LE are looking for since they come across so many people, maybe even had a poster in his car?

RE the times reported by those around Adrienne, IIRC one roommate said that she thought 2:30 because that's what bf said? Maybe they spoke with him prior to LE and didn't get the story quite right IMO but the question is why come up with details if you don't remember? Why not just say I don't remember? Is it because they are young, scared about underage drinking etc that may have been happening at the party (at the house that looks like a drug house in it's upkeep), or something more sinister?

RE video that was released, with guy wearing gloves. Just to clarify, was that the AMPM or Circle K?

RE the police shoot outs on Friday night (sorry still stinking at linking :) I found it interesting that they called in US Marshalls to help with a suspect for domestic issue and assault... there must be more to what that guy did IMO. Also found it interesting that the 2nd shoot out in the same article, the suspect was not named. And did the girls get out of car, or were they removed from the car? Like willing/ wanting to get out and be helped or more like they are part of whatever driver has going on? (Sorry I can read the articles but can't hear the videos, sound not working on my computer) Thinking about that female call to cab driver... Hmmm.....

THANK YOU so much for letting us know about other cases which may or may not be connected, PI!

Local folks, is all this activity fairly typical in your area, or is this a big upsurge unusual for your area?

Adrienne, I think they are closing in! Justice is coming!!!
 
OK, I AM OFFICIALLY FREAKING OUT OVER HERE

You guys remember the maps Hip and I were working on for awareness space / route purposes??

(Here are some of the posts)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #7

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #7

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LOOK WHERE PATRICIA MARTINEZ' BODY WAS FOUND (ALSO IN A WASH) IN RELATION TO THESE MAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE BLUE DOT IN THE CENTER!!!!!!!!

sy4abura.jpg



You guys might have a serial killer down there!!!!!!:scared:


I created a thread for Patricia last night; here is the link:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220165

Find who killed Patricia, and we might find who killed Adrienne. JMO.


I hope some of you here on Adrienne's thread will come over to Patricia's thread!
 
Re: my post above, if not right on the blue dot, very close to it, lol.

Awesome job on the maps, HIP. Thanks again!!
 
Re: my post above, if not right on the blue dot, very close to it, lol.

Awesome job on the maps, HIP. Thanks again!!

Thanks for pulling the maps back up and showing where Patricia was found in relation- I was hoping you would (and think I asked about it upthread somewhere?) and REALLY appreciate it! And thanks so much to 2Hip, any idea when we may hear from her again? I feel her absence...
I haven't checked back to the thread started looking at all the recent cases of missing and attempted abductions in the area that PI (I think) started, yet this evening, but this would be a great addition to the thread if you haven't linked it already! Wonder where all the pieces fit into the picture/ map.
I really feel/ hope that the activity over the weekend is because LE is closing in (or as PI pointed out maybe justice has already been served if one of those killed in shoot outs was the perp!)
 
Do any of you guys n here regularly follow threads where someone has been located? I do not. I'm wondering if this is a regular phenomenon - are the threads with the most insiders (unverified or verified, doesn't make a difference) ALWAYS the ones followed so tenaciously beyond location of the missing person? Are they ALWAYS the ones with the most drama? Are they ALWAYS the ones that are monitored by LE the most heavily, therefore slowing down the server the most?

Just curious. :seeya:
 
Do any of you guys n here regularly follow threads where someone has been located? I do not. I've only followed this one because it's local. It's easy to follow for me because Arizona has only been a State since 1912, being here for over half of that, it's pretty easy to navigate locations, AZ laws, a lot of LE are local who grew up here, and this wasn't the typical "college student goes to party, gets drunk and ends up in lake". I'm wondering if this is a regular phenomenon - are the threads with the most insiders (unverified or verified, doesn't make a difference) ALWAYS the ones followed so tenaciously beyond location of the missing person? Don't have a clue. My computer is on all day while I'm using CS6, I don't repeatedly turn it off and on, when I walk away. If the site says I'm here, 9 times out of 10, I'm not around. Are they ALWAYS the ones with the most drama? Some people play well with others, some people don't. I frequent a "Sidebar" from a local trial and everyone gets along pretty well. Are they ALWAYS the ones that are monitored by LE the most heavily, therefore slowing down the server the most? Don't know if LE monitoring a specific thread would slow the servers down, but what's being monitored is probably only known by the ownership of WS and LE. I wouldn't know.

Just curious. :seeya:

I read through 2 other "Missing/Located" on WS, the posters were generally going in one direction with the suspects and stayed on that specific case.
This thread has kind of had everything thrown at it from soup to nuts. I personally just want to go with the LE report and the directions LE have gone as far as previous suspects and POIs, they have their reasons for following those avenues. JMO.
 
Do any of you guys n here regularly follow threads where someone has been located? I do not. I'm wondering if this is a regular phenomenon - are the threads with the most insiders (unverified or verified, doesn't make a difference) ALWAYS the ones followed so tenaciously beyond location of the missing person? Are they ALWAYS the ones with the most drama? Are they ALWAYS the ones that are monitored by LE the most heavily, therefore slowing down the server the most?

Just curious. :seeya:

I must say I follow Located ---> Awaiting Trial ----> Trials more than i do while folks are missing. No, I am not a horrible person, I just don't have much to bring to the search conversation.

As for your questions it does seems the Missing threads are heavily visited by locals/insiders. Makes sense.

Coffee to everyone!
 
If an area is too small though, I don't think they can separate blocks. For instance, to tell if she remained with her parked car or walked two blocks over to her apartment. They'd be able to tell if she went to Scottsdale though and then returned to Tempe.

Interesting that bf said she left her phone on the seat of his car when she jumped out of it but that he pulled over and handed it to her. Then she continued walking and he called her roommates. Ponder that. Just an interesting too much info kind of comment thingy. Or maybe not.

Sorry to quote myself here. I'm reading over a few things and am having a hard time believing the phone hand over detail. Who might bf have handed AS's phone to if not AS? Is it possible AS went to Scottsdale but never returned to Tempe ever again? Only her phone returned?

The complete chain of events beyond 3:00 am could be a staged coverup. Someone may have been trying to remove AS's car from the area to claim she had left on her own. After they hit the median they moved on to plan B that involved calling the taxi. If they did that, they'd be guilty of intentionally framing other individuals.
 
Brought over what I posted on the previous thread:


*Somewhat Graphic*

That was in response to GGE's thought that maybe the guys in the Blazer/Bronco were dumping the remains when they got stuck in the flood. That thought hit some of us but just momentarily.
You have to understand the desert, the climate changes, the terrain in that area, soil composition, and what it does to a body.
The area around there is rocky, except in the dried out washes. Those are sand, and the sand can go down MANY feet. It's the easiest and fastest place to dig.
Burying remains in the sand, in June, the hottest and driest month in Arizona, (temps upwards of 120 degrees in hot years, 7-12% humidity) causes the body to mummify. It's like drying flowers. The odor is not pungent after rising to the surface through several feet of sand.
Monsoon season "officially" starts mid June by the weather people's standard, but if you've lived here for a few years, it's pretty standard for the storms to start around the 4th of July.
Now, throw in a bigger than normal flash flood running down Weeks wash, the sand is going to shift, and the partially mummified remains are going to move up to the surface. The lungs and other parts of the body still have captured gases that make it buoyant and sand is heavier.
Surface water is usually far calmer than the water below. Flash floods have an undercurrent that is faster than the surface water. That's why it's pretty stupid to stand in a flash flood. 1. The undertow, and 2. You don't have a clue about what may be 6 inches below the surface, scorpions, snakes, garbage, uprooted vegetation....
More than likely, the remains were unearthed during this flood. Because we can assume it was in a partially mummified state, re-hydration would have taken longer, bacteria growth causing an odor would have taken longer, that in turn would attract raptors and predators to the remains. If left untouched, it would take even longer for an apparent odor to be noticed by human beings.

Not to be crude, but it's the difference between beef jerky and a raw steak. Put a steak several feet down in the sand of a wash in June in Arizona, it becomes the consistency of beef jerky after a few weeks. Add water and the beef jerky is going to float up through the sand, with or without a current. It might take a week or more, with high humidity and temps to cause bacteria to develop, which causes an odor.
It does NOT work the same in other areas, like Florida, which has a higher humidity all through the summer....and I will let you get your own graphic on that.

Thank you for bringing this post forward. I remember reading your informative post before but my mind wasn't ready to comprehend the information. That happens when I try to catch up on a case after its already been active for awhile. As I'm going along, I do my own brainstorming (while posters are thinking 'we already went over that!') and end up asking self serving questions in order to make sense of the situation. The point about mummification flew completely by me before. Thank you for your patience.
 
IMOO and theory only based on the AMPM video im still stuck on.

At the beginning of this case I thought Adrienne was a victim of someone she was acquainted with.

BUT now after so much time has gone by I am thinking Stranger Abduction and Abduction by Force (and maybe even failed robbery attempt as A had no money on her.)

I think that Adrienne could have been assaulted on her walk to the AMPM.

Maybe someone driving a car with a gun, along with a larger male friend, wanted to rob a defenseless young woman at 5am.

I think suspect 1 and his accomplice forced her in the trunk of their car at gunpoint. She fought, but the accomplice was just too big.

She had no cash on her. Nothing they could benefit from monetarily, which threw them off with their plans to procure some drugs.

So they needed to go over to an AMPM to try and knock it off and get the cash for their fix that way.


They decided to keep her in the trunk during the ampm robbery attempt. They still Needed money bc Adrienne did not provide this financial source. She told them she had no money during the robbery and they found nothing in her overnight bag.

they park the car at the ampm and suspect 1 exits the driver seat of the car with a box containing the gun.

He sets the box on the news stands outside of the AMPM in order to case the inside - to check the general surveillance of the store.

He steps back outside to case and see when the perfect time to grab the gun/box would be and head on in. He looks straight at a security camera at one point while assessing the CCTV cam positions.

He also must make sure his accomplice can see his signal to begin getting ready for the getaway.

But he gets sidetracked and blocked by patrons entering/exiting the store.

He especially gets sidetracked when he sees his accomplice get out of the car to check the trunk and make Adrienne hush up. She was beginning to bang and make noise/yell for help.

Then a man walks out of the store, a big man, right in between the suspect and the gun/box he was attempting to grab and utilize for the robbery.

"It's too busy outside to rob" suspect 1 thought.

"why is that cab driver parked outside and looking around? Was the girl I just abducted his fare? I'm sketched!" he also thought.

He checks the inside. He notices its too busy/risky to rob inside as well. The place was too risky in general with all of those people around, especially with A in the trunk.

Suspect 1 grabs the box containing the robbery weapon from the new stands. He gets back in the car, this time as a passenger. They drive away from the AMPM.

They wait until the reports of Salinas Disappearance become public to murder her - fear of incarceration for abduction charges. They were in too deep. They had already used her and abused her after holding her captive for a few days. They saw in reports her family could not afford to pay any sort of hefty ransom for her - to these sickos she became worth more to them deceased and missing than she was alive and found.

Moo again.

ju2amaqe.jpg
 
Another aspect of the case I just spent time researching for myself and want to share is whether or not the JC who is missing (another case I've yet to catch up on) could be the same JC that one of AS's roommates mentioned had a crush on AS. Figure the odds that the initials would be the same. Anyway, per the police report, the name of the party goer/friend is different than that of the missing person. Nor does that name match either name of the two 19 year olds rescued from Apache Junction on July 21.

Per police report ~
According to both roommates, they received a call from AS's bf at approximately 2:30 am telling them that AS had exited his car in Tempe.
SD was interviewed first. She shared the bedroom with AS.
RF was interviewed second. She claims she didn't see AS leave the apartment after she returned from bf's house. She hopped on her bike to try to find AS after bf called but didn't find her. She met up with her in the grass yard of the apartment where she described AS as being "calmly upset".

RF told LE that SD's bedroom door was locked therefore AS could not enter. RF believes AS needed to charge her phone.

Before LE interviews bf there is a note in the police report that states, "Adrienne was seen leaving the house wearing a black sheer blouse top with black bra underneath and dark jean pants." This info must have been supplied by SD, since RF claims not to have seen AS leave the apartment again.

After the two roommates were interviewed, bf arrives on the scene. THIS IS WHERE THE TIMELINE ALTERS. Bf tells the detective that he and AS argued at around 2:30 am and she told him to leave the apartment. When he did, she followed him downstairs and sat in his car. They drove to his place in Scottsdale where they continued to argue. She left the apartment and began walking. He convinced her to get into his car and drove her to Tempe where she got out of his car and began walking again. Bf pulled his car over to hand the cellphone that AS left on the seat to RF WHO WAS ON HER BICYCLE nearby. Oops, I meant to say, he handed the phone over to AS who was angrily walking away.
He showed the detective the call he placed to RF at approximately 3:22 a.m. to alert her AS was walking home alone. Wouldn't it make more sense to slowly follow her to make sure she arrived home safely?

Why do both roommates think they received a call from bf closer to 2:30? If they had forewarning there was a problem (as we know AS's mom alerted one of them), they would have had time to check their own phones to come up with an accurate time. According to bf, 2:30 is when the problems began but what really happened that morning?

After 3:22 a.m. an excessive number of calls were placed to bf from AS's cellphone. They went unanswered.

The police report notes that SD didn't know what purse or bag AS took with her and that AS's wallet was NOT in her room. Did the wallet show up later? I've read that they found her car keys and wallet back at her apartment. When did they find those items? Police report has that the wallet is missing.
 
One more map

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1377561508.620084.jpg

A is where Adrienne was abducted. B at the red pin is where her deceased body was recovered

C is Scottsdale where Patricia Martines was abducted. D at the purple pin is where her deceased body was recovered.

E was a forced abduction attempt thwarted by a 16 year old girl Aug. 20th at 6:00 pm.

All numbered blue points are to help reference distances and possible movements of the perp.

On the map one can see he abducts from the WEST and disposes EAST. He also moved north (if he was involved in Murdering Patricia). The structure even created an arrow moving West to East to signify his movements.

I think there are two suspects. One lives in Mesa IMO and the other in Gilbert headed toward the superstition springs area.

The square is where the Mesa suspects awareness is. The triangle to the east is the second suspects awareness area. They might be accomplices.
 
>snip<
According to both roommates, they received a call from AS's bf at approximately 2:30 am telling them that AS had exited his car in Tempe.
SD was interviewed first. She shared the bedroom with AS.
RF was interviewed second. She claims she didn't see AS leave the apartment after she returned from bf's house. She hopped on her bike to try to find AS after bf called but didn't find her. She met up with her in the grass yard of the apartment where she described AS as being "calmly upset".

RF told LE that SD's bedroom door was locked therefore AS could not enter. RF believes AS needed to charge her phone.

Before LE interviews bf there is a note in the police report that states, "Adrienne was seen leaving the house wearing a black sheer blouse top with black bra underneath and dark jean pants." This info must have been supplied by SD, since RF claims not to have seen AS leave the apartment again.

After the two roommates were interviewed, bf arrives on the scene. THIS IS WHERE THE TIMELINE ALTERS. Bf tells the detective that he and AS argued at around 2:30 am and she told him to leave the apartment. When he did, she followed him downstairs and sat in his car. They drove to his place in Scottsdale where they continued to argue. She left the apartment and began walking. He convinced her to get into his car and drove her to Tempe where she got out of his car and began walking again. Bf pulled his car over to hand the cellphone that AS left on the seat to RF WHO WAS ON HER BICYCLE nearby. Oops, I meant to say, he handed the phone over to AS who was angrily walking away.
He showed the detective the call he placed to RF at approximately 3:22 a.m. to alert her AS was walking home alone. Wouldn't it make more sense to slowly follow her to make sure she arrived home safely?

Why do both roommates think they received a call from bf closer to 2:30? If they had forewarning there was a problem (as we know AS's mom alerted one of them), they would have had time to check their own phones to come up with an accurate time. According to bf, 2:30 is when the problems began but what really happened that morning?

After 3:22 a.m. an excessive number of calls were placed to bf from AS's cellphone. They went unanswered.

The police report notes that SD didn't know what purse or bag AS took with her and that AS's wallet was NOT in her room. Did the wallet show up later? I've read that they found her car keys and wallet back at her apartment. When did they find those items? Police report has that the wallet is missing.

Car keys, wallet and party clothes were later found in room, don't know if that was reported by LE through MSM or the parents. Roomate's time and BF's are almost an hour off. Could have been reconciled later by LE.
LE must have suspected foul play early on, or they wouldn't have put the resources out canvasing the neighborhood or searching the Town Lake. Usually they wait a week or so before they put divers in the water.
 
One more map

View attachment 36839

A is where Adrienne was abducted. B at the red pin is where her deceased body was recovered

C is Scottsdale where Patricia Martines was abducted. D at the purple pin is where her deceased body was recovered.

E was a forced abduction attempt thwarted by a 16 year old girl Aug. 20th at 6:00 pm.

All numbered blue points are to help reference distances and possible movements of the perp.

On the map one can see he abducts from the WEST and disposes EAST. He also moved north (if he was involved in Murdering Patricia). The structure even created an arrow moving West to East to signify his movements.

I think there are two suspects. One lives in Mesa IMO and the other in the Gilbert headed toward superstition springs area.

The square is where the Mesa suspects awareness is. The triangle to the east is the second suspects awareness area. They might be accomplices.

I see you've been busy during your vacation! :facepalm:
It's good to see you back and I admire your efforts & theories.
Good work as always, 2Hip.

:seeya:
 
2Hip, I have been thinking about your theory about the gloved individual in the AMPM Surveillance footage. It may be possible that he is an ice delivery person. I don't know about that particular AMPM, but I have seen quite a few convenience stores with outdoor ice freezers. That would explain the gloves. He did seem sketchy just peeking in the store, but he may have been looking for someone who was working in the store, maybe to sign a packing list or something. Just a thought :) Without more information, we just don't know so anything is possible.
 
2Hip, I have been thinking about your theory about the gloved individual in the AMPM Surveillance footage. It may be possible that he is an ice delivery person. I don't know about that particular AMPM, but I have seen quite a few convenience stores with outdoor ice freezers. That would explain the gloves. He did seem sketchy just peeking in the store, but he may have been looking for someone who was working in the store, maybe to sign a packing list or something. Just a thought :) Without more information, we just don't know so anything is possible.

Hmm or nodded at someone to open the cooler?
Around here they are locked most of the time cause we live near the lake and people steal it...

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2
 
2Hip, I have been thinking about your theory about the gloved individual in the AMPM Surveillance footage. It may be possible that he is an ice delivery person. I don't know about that particular AMPM, but I have seen quite a few convenience stores with outdoor ice freezers. That would explain the gloves. He did seem sketchy just peeking in the store, but he may have been looking for someone who was working in the store, maybe to sign a packing list or something. Just a thought :) Without more information, we just don't know so anything is possible.

I understand where you are coming from for sure.

The gloves look more like riding gloves to me rather than latex gloves or chefs mitts/gloves. The gloves apear to be white with black piping. They Maybe even BMX gloves. Certainly look like Fox brand motocross gloves.

But then again the video is so very grainy :(

But if he is a delivery man, he is shady and needs a uniform. :D. What is in that cardboard cake box? Is he delivering a cake or baked goods? Kind of odd.

Maybe he saw something none the less!


ImageUploadedByTapatalk1377572940.780331.jpg
^ looks like white motocross gloves with black piping IMO.
 
JMO I just don't see someone about to kidnap someone or who has just kidnapped someone, hanging around in front of a station bound to have cameras, wearing gloves. I know lots of criminals are stupid, but seeing how many murders go unsolved, a number of them don't make the obvious blunders, too, IMO.
 

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