AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #4

[passionflower]

bumped by me

Well, it seems Tammi on her fb said she had been to Africa, had a time share in Mexico.
She has family in TN.
Somehow Boston and Indianapolis got i the mix.
Everyone lives in AZ, but met in TX?
Eliz went from Victoria TX to Miami and somewhere it was
mentioned Ft. lauderdale................
Now I am completely screwed up!

 

[Dear Prudence]

I think no one is really sure about all those details. It appears as if it could be fact Elizabeth was flying back from Boston to Arizona. The claim is that Tammi (and Jack) met her during a long layover in Indianapolis. We're not sure why they would have been in the Indianapolis airport - or maybe even if that is where they met at all

I could be wrong about some of this so anyone else correct it!

There's conflicting media reports. Some say Indianapolis and some say Boston. I don't recall hearing what city directly from Tammi, just an airport. Maybe someone else remembers. And there was one time Tammi stuttered looking for the right word, then came up with airport. It made me think she could possibly be making it up. I'll try to find the clip.

 

[panthera]

I think no one is really sure about all those details. It appears as if it could be fact Elizabeth was flying back from Boston to Arizona. The claim is that Tammi (and Jack) met her during a long layover in Indianapolis. We're not sure why they would have been in the Indianapolis airport - or maybe even if that is where they met at all

I could be wrong about some of this so anyone else correct it!

At this point we don't know if it even happened, let alone just where.

 

[Ives]

Ives, welcome to WS and thanks for your post. But I have to admit that it takes me back to something that I wondered last night...

If the original plan was to get the baby into Mexico, I am puzzled as to why Elizabeth had to drive to TX for the transfer? She could have left Tempe and driven down to Nogales in about 2-3 hours, or even arranged to transfer the baby in Tucson. I doubt anyone has the answer, but I just have to say that the whole idea of driving to TX to make an international transfer has me scratching my head.

Yes, that doesn't make much sense. Maby she was just being dumb, and took off for some crazy ride to keep daddy away from baby, and something happened then?? They said on the video, that she sat in her car for 5 minutes, before walking across the street to the bus station. Was she going to drive off in the car, but change her mind? I just wish I could walk outside and find him!
back to lurkdom, LOL

 

[panthera]

Well, it seems Tammi on her fb said she had been to Africa, had a time share in Mexico.
She has family in TN.
Somehow Boston and Indianapolis got i the mix.
Everyone lives in AZ, but met in TX?
Eliz went from Victoria TX to Miami and somewhere it was
mentioned Ft. lauderdale................
Now I am completely screwed up!

I'm not sure about Tammi, but someone posted here that EJ has family in Boston, and I remember Boston being mentioned on NG's show as where EJ was flying from when Tammi met her at an airport (not sure which one though), but Tammi supposedly held and took care of Gabriel on the flight back to Arizona. The bus trip to Florida was from San Antonio, IIRC, and again, from info. on NG's show, it was headed to Ft. Lauderdale. Somehow she ended up in Miami Beach where she was arrested.

 

[Shear22]

Please help me to understand why Tammi would have gone, almost in an instant, from obsessively seeking a baby for herself, to facilitating that baby going to someone else?

I can't get there. I can't see what would have suddenly made her change her mind. And I don't see a change of mind in any of her actions or statements until yesterday or the day before when she said she didn't think adopting Gabriel was going to be possible.

At what point do others see Tammi changed her mind, and what happened that she changed it?

TIA

Maybe EJ isn't the only one who is vengeful. Maybe TPS was so angry with LM for not signing away his rights that she would rather a nice anonymous couple get that precious baby than the selfish and abusive (in her mind and thanks in part to EJ's portrayal of him) father. I just don't see why EJ would have stayed in touch with TPS if she were doing this on her own. I think EJ manipulated TPS into believing that JM was a horrible person and father and TPS wanted to provide a better life for Gabriel, even if she couldn't have him.

 

[Prof]

OK, I will consider that when you can tell me anything logical that points to some underground network. They are not exactly listed in the phone book, and if this friend in TN had those connections they would have found Tammie her extra baby by now. She never would have needed to bother wwith Elizabeth and then the little complication of Logan.

Just a FYI the word "underground" only surfaced in this Gabriel Johnson thread because TS posted the word on her FB page saying that EJ had found underground help

As far as TS and JS' adopted daughter, you can read the comment from her bio dad here http://today.newsvine.com/_news/2010/01/07/3725520-is-missing-baby-gabriel-still-alive?pc=25&sp=25

He was not in prison, he states; he was sent out of state for work, and they finagled the law by taking it to another state

(He was in prison for a while in Louisiana, but before this "adoption" happened)

I have only heard that his custodial rights were revoked from TS, and frankly after I have seen her story change on almost everything since she started opening her mouth about this case, I tend to believe the son in law more than I do her

 

[Searchfortruth]

I'm not sure he lost custody legitimately ... that's not what he is claiming. I think he is claiming they did it while he was incarcerated (and someone here found out that he was in jail for a while for some car insurance thing, not sure if there is more) and, possibly (I'll have to check), it was done in another state.


Bratlings ... also Tammi, that we know of, has already asked many of the possible surrogates online if they have insurance - they obviously do not want to pay for the medical care. Many women online say they DO have insurance. Tammi was also looking for a military wife in California (medical care and more covered, plus easier surrogate laws, plus it's out of state). And on and on... there were possibilities.


Frankly, I think it stinks that the Smith's want insurance to pay for the medical costs - insurance that they don't pay for on their own. They even expressed on TV that they were ok with not checking out the legalities of Logan being the father because they knew Gabriel had had all his shots (or something like that). They never referred to Gabriel by his name - why is that?

I really agree with you.

Pretty much all of their behavior stinks, IMO. They threatened Logan by using his son. Tammi can not excuse her way out of that. They bad mouthed Logan, from day one, on news interviews that were aired all over the country. This was done to make them look better, not for baby Gabriel. Their motives are far from pure. The fact that Tammi's own children know her and have nothing positive to say, speaks volumes to me. Children usually think the best of their parents and when they don't, there's a problem.

Even if the Smiths are not involved they have crossed many boundaries here.

 

[time]

I know a case where one guy who ran an underground organziation was revealed to be a convicted child molester. And I also know a case where a woman who had been convicted of abusing her kids and denied access to them at all grabbed one of them and went into the underground with a phony story.

I'm sure they still exist, and IMHO they do far more harm than good.

I agree... I think they may have just started out long ago to help some get away from real abuse (I don't know a lot about it either) and over time underground org sprung up that have all kinds of unsavories connected to them or whatever. Part of the problem here is probably in the lingo used as I think real help exists today for those in extreme danger, but maybe it wouldn't be called 'underground' at all. There's also so much more trafficking, underground stuff for moving illegals, or providing illegal paperwork or whatever. Ugh ...

 

[LFlorida]

I dont know, I think Elizabeth was visiting a friend in Boston but it was about 8 months ago from what i understand so does it really matter?

Might not matter - but they made such a big deal about her affording a bus ticket to Florida. edit: being able to afford the bus tkt

I wondered how she could afford to be jetting around enough to meet these wonderful adoptive parents in an airport and then be on the same flight. [At least according to the prospective adoptive mother.]

 

[Bratlings]

Just a FYI the word "underground" only surfaced in this Gabriel Johnson thread because TS posted the word on her FB page saying that EJ had found underground help

As far as TS and JS' adopted daughter, you can read the comment from her bio dad here http://today.newsvine.com/_news/2010/01/07/3725520-is-missing-baby-gabriel-still-alive?pc=25&sp=25

He was not in prison, he states; he was sent out of state for work, and they finagled the law by taking it to another state

(He was in prison for a while in Louisiana, but before this "adoption" happened)

I have only heard that his custodial rights were revoked from TS, and frankly after I have seen her story change on almost everything since she started opening her mouth about this case, I tend to believe the son in law more than I do her

I have heard it and read it, but his version makes no sense! You just cant take someones baby and move to another State and adopt. He was supposedly married to the babys mother but had no idea they moved with the child until he returned? Come on! Not to mention the fact that they have supposedly lived in AZ longer than that child has been alive. If there was anything underhanded or illegal about it he could have had them arrested and had it overturned by now! It happens all the time. I am not buying it whatsoever. There is more to that story and he is hoping that this one will change circumstances in his situation. he is as manipulative as Tammie and Elizabeth are as far as I am concerned.

 

[Bratlings]

Might not matter - but they made such a big deal about her affording a bus ticket to Florida. edit: being able to afford the bus tkt

I wondered how she could afford to be jetting around enough to meet these wonderful adoptive parents in an airport and then be on the same flight. [At least according to the prospective adoptive mother.]

I too question if the Smith's gave her money. I dont think anyone has come right out and asked them that have they?

 

[time]

I really agree with you.

Pretty much all of their behavior stinks, IMO. They threatened Logan by using his son. Tammi can not excuse her way out of that. They bad mouthed Logan, from day one, on news interviews that were aired all over the country. This was done to make them look better, not for baby Gabriel. Their motives are far from pure. The fact that Tammi's own children know her and have nothing positive to say, speaks volumes to me. Children usually think the best of their parents and when they don't, there's a problem.

Even if the Smiths are not involved they have crossed many boundaries here.

Thanks ... yes, they have and to me it doesn't matter if they actually are or aren't involved in Gabriel's disappearance as far as what kind of people they are. They have, obviously, not come forward with all they know. Worse, they have confused things - almost like some disinformation campaign. That tells me they do not care about Gabriel. They did not care about another human being and what they have done to him either, Logan.

 

[Dear Prudence]

http://www.kpho.com/video/22155911/index.html

Listen to this bit regarding TPS and EJ meeting at an airport. Starting at about 1:50 EJ is responding to questions from a reporter on how she met the couple she claims she gave Gabriel to in San Antonio. Then TPS breaks in at about 2:20 and says "That's how WE met, in the, in the, umm, what do you call it, the airport." It's probably nothing but it just sounds so odd to me.

 

[Prof]

She was the custodial parent at the time she took him. That changed on Dec. 29th I believe but by that time she was already in Miami without the baby. In fact she got on that bus on the 27th so whatever happened to him was already done before he even got to court that morning.

I believe they had joint custody at the time she took Game
This is clipped from the timeline Momtective put together
"Dec. 17th EJ & Logan were granted joint custody
Dec. 18th EJ picked up Gabriel from the Smith’s telling them she’s taking him to visit his father.
Dec. 19th EJ leaves for Texas with Gabriel
Dec. 22nd EJ was in San Antonio with Gabriel
Dec. 23rd Logan filed against EJ for breaking the custody order"

 

[Bratlings]

I have heard it and read it, but his version makes no sense! You just cant take someones baby and move to another State and adopt. He was supposedly married to the babys mother but had no idea they moved with the child until he returned? Come on! Not to mention the fact that they have supposedly lived in AZ longer than that child has been alive. If there was anything underhanded or illegal about it he could have had them arrested and had it overturned by now! It happens all the time. I am not buying it whatsoever. There is more to that story and he is hoping that this one will change circumstances in his situation. he is as manipulative as Tammie and Elizabeth are as far as I am concerned.

I want to add.... and then he says he was in court over it and had to go out of town during it because of his work? Seriously who decides work is more important than custody? And if they had done that while under the jurisdiction of an open custody case the judge would have ordered them to return. Seriously nothing that guy says even holds water.

 

[LadyL]

I am not following what you are inferring at all. I suspect you dont really mean when he was conceived because that would have been 17 months ago. Please explain.

OOPS

forgive me, I'm buried in paperwork & trying to follow here at the same time so I don't fall behind 30 pages again

(it's not working!)

 

[Bratlings]

I believe they had joint custody at the time she took Game
This is clipped from the timeline Momtective put together
"Dec. 17th EJ & Logan were granted joint custody
Dec. 18th EJ picked up Gabriel from the Smith’s telling them she’s taking him to visit his father.
Dec. 19th EJ leaves for Texas with Gabriel
Dec. 22nd EJ was in San Antonio with Gabriel
Dec. 23rd Logan filed against EJ for breaking the custody order"

Youre right, I meant physical custody. But you bring up something I forgot... What was she doing in Texas all that time? Maybe the baby was missing long before the 27th. That makes this even more worrisome.

 

[Prof]

I too question if the Smith's gave her money. I dont think anyone has come right out and asked them that have they?

The discussion came up on NG I believe -- NG asked where the Smiths' think she got the money for the motel, gas, bus ticket, etc
They asserted that she sold her two yorkies and rented a room to a friend and came up with a total of $900 that she had from those two moves
Then they asserted that she never asked them for "even a quarter"

I remember thinking, well maybe she did not have to ask because they handed her the money without her asking

 

[Bratlings]

The discussion came up on NG I believe -- NG asked where the Smiths' think she got the money for the motel, gas, bus ticket, etc
They asserted that she sold her two yorkies and rented a room to a friend and came up with a total of $900 that she had from those two moves
Then they asserted that she never asked them for "even a quarter"

I remember thinking, well maybe she did not have to ask because they handed her the money without her asking

You know thats what I hate about NG, she helps people skirt the answers. She never asked them if they gave her any money, instead she positioned the question and answer to be ambivalent from the get go. I havent seen all of their interviews with local networks but did any others ask them?