AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #18

[abstr]

"Aunt" and "Uncle" so-in-so is common here in the south as well.

I have many Aunts and Uncles who aren't blood related. It was a term of endearment in my family. I also have Aunts and Uncles who are referred to by first name. I love them but they aren't called by Aunts and Uncles.

 

[SpongeBathHotPants]

This is probably a "duh" post but I was thinking while I was reading (yes there is a first time for everything) but does anyone else think that after almost a month it is really odd that
A.The parents have not been cleared.
B. With everything that they have done (search wise and such) LE has really told the public nothing
C. She was "abducted" but they won't go any further than that with details

It all just seems so strange to me. I don't really have a clue where this poor baby is but from the cases that I have read in the past this one is really being handled differently than the others and I wonder why. Just thinking out loud.

And maybe I have watched waaaaaay too many episodes of Law and Order but do we know if they have taken the parents in and done the 12 hour marathon interrogation? In the past that seems to have weeding some info out.

 

[FrayedKnot]

For Prof: here is the warrant info that johnQ was referencing, as posted by white rabbit.

oh here. is this what johnq meant? it's just part of the long case file...snipped by me:

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/courts/QDPS/Reports/QDPSReport.aspx

12/16/2011 1 5375 MOTION FILED: REVOKE PROBATION
12/30/2011 1 5272 PROCESS: SERVED/PRIVATE SERVR SR SERVED - PROCESS SERVER
1/18/2012 1 6520 CAL: ARRM-PROBATION REVOCATIO

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[GutFeeling!]

Regarding the CPS issue here's what I think from looking at court records... In December a Warrant was served for JM at the residence and it took 2 attempts to serve the warrant on the first visit to serve the warrant parents maybe were not home at the moment and left with the 14 yo in charge and it was probably for something stupid like the dad was down the street at his mothers or ran to get fast food or something stupid plus it was December they could have been out Christmas shopping and the stupid process server put in for CPS Flag for check-up ... it's AZ and they can be stupid like that... I've heard of dumber reasons for CPS being nosey in Tempe... This most recent issue however it's safe to assume while police were at the home investigating for evidence pertaining to the abduction, thier warrant was not for drugs or paraphernalia and something was found or seen in the search. Since the search warrant was not for drugs and there was no grounds for probable cause to be looking for drug items and it was seen or found in the privacy of thier home that evidence is not usable in court to charge him with a crime BUT it's not something they cant mention to CPS and cause them to look into it. You can't charge someone for things unrelated to your warrant.

I am catching up (2 pages to go so slow down lol)

This is what John posted about the warrant

 

[GutFeeling!]

Snipped. This is such a good point. If intimidation had anything to do with the CPS order, I really wonder how they feel about this. I did not like seeing him there knowing the son was there. I thought it was unfair to his son to have to see his father peeking out behind a wall, not to mention the weirdness factor.

he would have been arrested immediately. The police were there and would have been made aware of what the order entails.

 

[JDB]

Thanks, but I am looking for the one that one of the Mods posted either yesterday or the day before, not sure which day or which mod.

Patty are you thinking of the post Salem our Mod posted Bout rumors? If you are it is on the thread that needed major clean- up
On a iPad so I can not link it here for you

 

[txanmom]

Absoolutely agree. My belief is that window was staged to make it appear the perp had entered and/or exited through it. It would be quite difficult, IMO, to remove the screen from the outside without bending or damaging it, and much simpler to cut it for access. If the neighbors dogs barked at voices that morning wouldn't they also have sensed someone outside that night removing the screen and taking the child out of her room? It would also be difficult, IMO, to remove Isabel through the window unless there was a second person outside to hand her off to. And then how did they exit the yard? Was a gate open or unlocked? And again, no dogs alerted to any noise?

:waitasec:

MOO

Last week I went around my house and removed screens in less than 5 seconds each. It was no problem, I just gave them a little wiggle at the bottom and quietly moved the bottom out then the top slid right out. I did one with my daughter in her room and asked her if she heard me and she did not. I also just instinctively leaned it on the side of the house to the left of the window. HTH a little :seeya:

 

[callyn]

I think in all honesty, I'm gettin too old for this stuff, I mean OY. I mean, huge families, aunts, uncles, cousins, sisters, brothers on both sides, this one married that one and it turned out that the last name was changed to another last name, then I begin to go blank and almost black out. :floorlaugh:

Harhar, it's had me thinking about how many brain cells I've lost along the way. :giggle:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The person who knows this woman has lost touch with her over the years (if I understood correctly), this woman with the boys could have already contacted the police, we have no way of knowing.

If it was something untoward why wouldnt this 'woman' report it back then when it happened?

Why wait until she sees them in the news 17 years later?

I have a feeling this other woman didnt even know Sergio Celis.

 

[Hatfield]

"Aunt" and "Uncle" so-in-so is common here in the south as well.

I agree. In our family, we called practically any adults that were close friends with my parents "aunt" + "uncle". It was just something we did as kids, whether they were related or not.

 

[mck16]

Thanks! Back to the original question, can anyone remember a missing child case where the parents were home at the time and ruled out as suspects?

I can't think of any.

Were Celina Cass's parents considered suspects by LE? I don't remember if they were ever official suspects. tia

 

[Lava]

he would have been arrested immediately. The police were there and would have been made aware of what the order entails.

No, it wasn't a police order, and I doubt it was an order that included being arrested if violated. For instance, the sister I have that had her children taken away was asked by CPS to leave her husbands house, with the children, because he was a danger. At first she agreed, made the plans, and left for the night. The next day she was back at the house and when CPS found out she was not arrested (because it was not an official no contact order), but her children were taken from her. We don't know what the CPS order, or "request" was, let alone what it entails.

 

[FrayedKnot]

For Prof:

Here is the clarification that yes, the warrant was served on JM, but that as there was no address, one could not say with certainty that it was served at the Celis' home.

In summary, the OP stated that based on the warrant served on JM, he proposed a theory that if it had been served at the Celis, MAYBE that was what precipitated the alert to CPS.

Then another poster, white rabbit, posted the warrant info to which John Q Public referred, and made note that there was not an address on the warrant so we couldn't know whether or not JM was served at the Celis home.

It's easier to understand the exchange if you go back and read it rather than having to read re-posted info, but I did the best I could to give you what you asked for! HTH

JM. it's not new, it's the original case posted.

but there's no address listed so i can't see how we can be sure he was "served" while living at the c's. but what do i know.

thanks for the coffee and bagel. yum.

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[Lark2]

I did see his photo in the DailyMail article and there was nothing sinister about it from my perception, imo. He certainly didn't look threatening. He looked sad, IMO, and there hasn't been one word said that he tried to intimidate his boys or anyone else.

Do we even know if they realized he was there watching from afar?

Becky has already said the boys miss their father so why would seeing him be intimidating to them anyway?

I had to separate out fact from feeling when I thought about his making an appearance at the vigil, because I, too, felt "sorry" for him. It's a natural feeling.

But I then had to apply the facts as they are known, i.e., the reason Sergio coudn't attend was because of something Sergio did. The boys are not under a no contact order to not see or talk to their dad - so it couldn't be that the boys did something to cause it.

We can speculate as to why this directive has been deployed, and it is my opinion that the no contact order was issued so that Sergio could not interfere with the boys' statements to LE. I speculate that he has been coercing and potentially intimidating them.

These boys are witnesses to the events in the home that night and their recollections are important. I'm sure LE doesn't want them being "coached" as to what to say.

 

[GutFeeling!]

I didn't see it that way at all. I saw a broken man, longingly looking over a wall at his family and wanting to be over there and wondering how in the heck this has become their life.

I am not Pro-SC by any means. His 911 call gave me the chills and didn't settle right with me. But I'm on the fence. Regardless, I didn't get creeped out by the photo.

I saw that too - nothing creepy just very sad - that was a vigil for his missing daughter. And if he wasn't there all the talk here would be that he didn't show up and he could have watched from behind a wall somewhere. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I think SC has a feeling he knows what happened.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This is probably a "duh" post but I was thinking while I was reading (yes there is a first time for everything) but does anyone else think that after almost a month it is really odd that
A.The parents have not been cleared.
B. With everything that they have done (search wise and such) LE has really told the public nothing
C. She was "abducted" but they won't go any further than that with details

It all just seems so strange to me. I don't really have a clue where this poor baby is but from the cases that I have read in the past this one is really being handled differently than the others and I wonder why. Just thinking out loud.

And maybe I have watched waaaaaay too many episodes of Law and Order but do we know if they have taken the parents in and done the 12 hour marathon interrogation? In the past that seems to have weeding some info out.

BBM

Those exact things have happened in other cases.

1. No one ruled out...not even family members of the missing child or children.
2. LE doesnt reveal any information they have discovered.
3. Other LE have said the same or wouldnt even go that far and only would call it a missing person's case.

IMO

 

[cluciano63]

BBM

Those exact things have happened in other cases.

1. No one ruled out...not even family members of the missing child or children.
2. LE doesnt reveal any information they have discovered.
3. Other LE have said the same or wouldnt even go that far and only would call it a missing person's case.

IMO

Actually, there was an article posted last night with LE having said that they HAVE ruled out some family members and some sex offenders, but not the parents.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_df9cc706-5f2d-5cd5-9a3c-2f4f045407ad.html

 

[mck16]

I had to separate out fact from feeling when I thought about his making an appearance at the vigil, because I, too, felt "sorry" for him. It's a natural feeling.

But I then had to apply the facts as they are known, i.e., the reason Sergio coudn't attend was because of something Sergio did. The boys are not under a no contact order to not see or talk to their dad - so it couldn't be that the boys did something to cause it.

We can speculate as to why this directive has been deployed, and it is my opinion that the no contact order was issued so that Sergio could not interfere with the boys' statements to LE. I speculate that he has been coercing and potentially intimidating them.

These boys are witnesses to the events in the home that night and their recollections are important. I'm sure LE doesn't want them being "coached" as to what to say.

I would think that after all that time if they were going to be coached it would have already happened. jmo

 

[Donjeta]

he would have been arrested immediately. The police were there and would have been made aware of what the order entails.

Can you be arrested for ignoring a voluntary agreement with CPS? It's not a restraining order. IANAL but I got the impression from AzLawyer earlier that voluntary agreements are not enforced by threats of an arrest but by threats of forcing the issue in court.

 

[callyn]

I saw that too - nothing creepy just very sad - that was a vigil for his missing daughter. And if he wasn't there all the talk here would be that he didn't show up and he could have watched from behind a wall somewhere. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I think SC has a feeling he knows what happened.

BBM, I very much agree with the bolded statement. Sergio LIVES in that house, he was behind his wall. Had he hidden inside his home, people would complain about that