AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

[winterrose]

Freshly dried bloodstains are a glossy reddish-brown in color.

Blood residue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Prof]

5ft south would be across the street? Behind the Celis home.

It would be toward the backyard wall of the twin home across the alleyway behind their home, not street.

 

[cluciano63]

Clu, what do you think about the possibility that they simply don't want to state either way what they have ruled out and what they have ruled in on this case? Could they have an inkling either way, but don't think it prudent to state that publically at this time? Could they also have no inkling either way?

IDK but the way LE has not let out what they have interpreted of evidence at all really... I would not think that no statement at all necessarily is an indication of who they think is involved?

I don't know what to think. If not for the CPS thing popping up in the middle of all of this, I would probably believe that this was a stranger abduction for sure, but that makes me hesitate. And of course LE knows more than we do and they have never even tried to soft-soap the fact that they are looking at the parents, IMO. So I have to wonder what they are learning.

Also I believe it was stated last night that parts of the documents have been blacked out? I guess we will find out.

 

[time]

I agree that it is possible for someone to be deeply in debt and not APPEAR to be living beyond their means. In Arizona the housing market crash has been so severe that a homeowner may have a huge mortgage debt and appear to have very little to show for it.

I also agree that LE would have looked at this in the beginning of this case. LE even called attention to the fact that they were looking at the Celis financial records on May 15 in a local news report (that was mentioned on this blog at that time).

For the people who don't feel that there were financial difficulties... have you gone to the link that was provided for the Pima County Recorder and looked at the history? This is a public record site and is much less invasive than sleuthing DUIs, drug arrests, or warrants served.

The Recorder shows:

There were 3 foreclosure actions, continuing from late 2008 until mid 2011.

Two were two simultaneous foreclosure actions (on both houses) starting the same month (Dec 2008).

In May 2011 their previous home went back to the bank due to foreclosure.

In June 2011 their current home was saved from foreclosure for the second time.

The 2 mortgages that were the subject of the foreclosures both originated in 2006. There were 2 other mortgages originated at the same time (maybe seconds on each of the houses).

There was a Lien recorded in 2006 (probably HOA for previous house)

All I'm saying is, IMO we don't have to guess whether there were financial problems. It's all listed there at the Recorders Office and this doesn't include possible credit card debt or personal loans.

I am not implying anything negative about the Celis family debt. This scenario has become much too common since the housing crash. I sympathize with their situation. It looks exactly like the downward spiral that was described above.

But I don't understand why people would say that there wasn't really a problem. They saved their current home a year ago (maybe by borrowing privately from someone). But that was only a month after losing the previous home to foreclosure. Normally their ability to borrow from a bank after a previous foreclosure would now be much more limited.

This is my opinion only. Go to the Recorder link and see what you think. A Trustee Deed is when the property actually reverts to the bank.

I provided a Trulia link showing the previous home's foreclosure a couple of days ago. I can pull that link and the explanation up again if anyone wants to see it.

Pima County Recorder link for Celis family records:

http://www.recorder.pima.gov/public...e=5/25/2012&l=CELIS&f=SERGIO&o=Sequence&v=DOC

Very good post and I agree. They obviously had some financial difficulties. This is all relevant background when a crime like this has occurred too. A tidbit released in the records is that Sergio has worked at the Dental office since 2008 (IIRC). Maybe they didn't have two incomes before that? But also they sure had a lot of trouble around the time Isa was born. Probably not of consequences, but Rebecca also had her DUI/child endangerment (or whatever it was) around the time the youngest son was born.

Since someone asked and for what it's worth (and probably not worth much since it's a wild theory), I could see that IF someone lived with them who owed someone money, the squeeze was put on them to fork over that money by saying they would hurt someone in the house or whatever. Maybe Isa was taken as revenge or payment. That would lead me to believe the person living there though had to be family. Isa was possibly the easiest target.

 

[mamamia54]

It would be toward the backyard wall of the twin home across the alleyway behind their home, not street.

Ok yes that would be an alleyway, where the garbage cans are, I can see that now.

 

[Prof]

I don't know what to think. If not for the CPS thing popping up in the middle of all of this, I would probably believe that this was a stranger abduction for sure, but that makes me hesitate. And of course LE knows more than we do and they have never even tried to soft-soap the fact that they are looking at the parents, IMO. So I have to wonder what they are learning.

Also I believe it was stated last night that parts of the documents have been blacked out? I guess we will find out.

Thanks. Yes, I am concerned by the CPS visit/voluntary separation.
I do understand that LE involving CPS can be seen as an indirect LE "inclination" toward parent involvement. IDK either -- so puzzling.
Yes, we can probably tell if it was just redacted names and addresses or comments on the police reports, blacked out.

 

[Prof]

Very good post and I agree. They obviously had some financial difficulties. This is all relevant background when a crime like this has occurred too. A tidbit released in the records is that Sergio has worked at the Dental office since 2008 (IIRC). Maybe they didn't have two incomes before that? But also they sure had a lot of trouble around the time Isa was born. Probably not of consequences, but Rebecca also had her DUI/child endangerment (or whatever it was) around the time the youngest son was born.

Since someone asked and for what it's worth (and probably not worth much since it's a wild theory), I could see that IF someone lived with them who owed someone money, the squeeze was put on them to fork over that money by saying they would hurt someone in the house or whatever. Maybe Isa was taken as revenge or payment. That would lead me to believe the person living there though had to be family. Isa was possibly the easiest target.

I take it you are referencing the financial difficulty that shows in public record as the "trouble" around Isa's birth? I am not sure what the DUI in 2002 is referencing, though. And how are we getting to Isa being the target of an unpaid loan? lol sorry I just want to ensure I understand.

It might be worth considering, that it is also in witness statements that the Celis family moved to the neighborhood when Isa's grandmother had a stroke, so they could help take care of her. Grandmother's stroke, Isa's birth and the purchase of the home happenend in the same year, I believe.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-267...bel-celis-new-evidence-revealed-29464417.html

Not sure if you've seen this one either. It's a good video.

Thanks, spoiledmom. I was able to get a pretty decent shot of the mysterious blanket that was taken from the red car, thanks to your link:

​

 

[oceanblueeyes]

What I was told by the source working on the case, is what was stated in the video about the family member owing money to someone. I was told that Sergio is connected to this. The people that they were saying the family member owed money to was the cartel. This was how the whole idea got into my head. I can now release that information since it has been released to the media.

But if a family member of the Celis' family owed money to the cartel why would they target an innocent girl that wasnt the daughter of the family member who owed the cartel?

But it hasnt been released that Sergio is connected to a drug cartel unless I missed that.

IMO

 

[Dee10]

Looks like Nancy Grace is going to cover the story tonight. http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/05/25/apparent-blood-isabel-celis-house

 

[Jules71]

This one was updated 10 minutes ago.
http://www.examiner.com/article/possible-blood-stains-found-bedroom-of-missing-girl-isabel-celis

And she erroneously reports "two boys were turned over to their biological mother – Sergio Celis' ex-wife." We know Becky is bio mom and not Sergio's ex wife.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

And she erroneously reports "two boys were turned over to their biological mother – Sergio Celis' ex-wife." We know Becky is bio mom and not Sergio's ex wife.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[luvmydogs]

And she erroneously reports "two boys were turned over to their biological mother – Sergio Celis' ex-wife." We know Becky is bio mom and not Sergio's ex wife.

Irks me to no end! :maddening::maddening: How the heck can someone screw up and still have a job? It is just unacceptable!

 

[cj1132]

In regards to the foreclosures, is it possible they bought the new house with the intent of selling the old one? Maybe the old one didn't sell and they were saddled with two mortgages. That could really screw up someones finances in a hurry. The surely wouldn't have been the first and won't be the last.

 

[Jules71]

Does Uncle/Cousin JM drive a truck?

Just thinking but didn't someone (I think JQP) find a document (warrant?) for JM that gave the Celises address?

I can buy the talk about someone living with the family (JM) who owes money to someone (cartel) and SC is somehow involved also.

Also if Sergio borrowed money to keep from having his current house foreclosed on - maybe he told people he borrowed it from work (but it has now come out from his employer they did not lend him money).

 

[cluciano63]

I thought the examiner and gather were not allowed here as MSM links, unless written by Isabelle Z. (?), one writer Tricia had approved. Yet these sites seem to have crept back in to many cases on a regular basis...JMO

 

[mamamia54]

But if a family member of the Celis' family owed money to the cartel why would they target an innocent girl that wasnt the daughter of the family member who owed the cartel?

But it hasnt been released that Sergio is connected to a drug cartel unless I missed that.

IMO

As far as we know, LE could indeed be either ruling a possibility of that, in, or out.

 

[Prof]

But if a family member of the Celis' family owed money to the cartel why would they target an innocent girl that wasnt the daughter of the family member who owed the cartel?

But it hasnt been released that Sergio is connected to a drug cartel unless I missed that.

IMO

No, it has not been released that any money was owed by anyone to anyone, and it has not been released that there is any connection to a cartel.

What has been released since yesterday is only media paraphrase of snips of police reports. Thos police reports are generated by leads submitted on the tips lines. They followed up everything no matter how far out there, and no matter if it was an anonymous tip based on speculation based on internet rumor. LE has stated this in their pressers.

What we do know is that someone gave LE a tip that money was owed, and LE checked it out.

That's all we know.
IMO lol

 

[spoiledmom]

But if a family member of the Celis' family owed money to the cartel why would they target an innocent girl that wasnt the daughter of the family member who owed the cartel?

But it hasnt been released that Sergio is connected to a drug cartel unless I missed that.

IMO

Well you will soon see in the documents. It just said that the police reported that a man told him that they "the Celis family" owed a lot of money to someone and that is why the girl was taken. I'm sure the documents will soon fill in the rest unless it is blacked out. Obviously if the people they owe money too took Isabel out of intimidation, CPS would come in and take the boys away from the person that is putting their children in this kind of danger. In past cases where the cartel is involved, many parents/people don't report it because they are turning themselves in for illegal activity. I just read an article about it. I will post it when I find it again. But, the cartel thinks that they can control you by intimidation. If they kill you, they don't get their money. I'm not saying this is who has Isa but I do believe that LE was considering this at one time. I don't know if they still are but it doesn't look like they have ruled it out.

 

[WhatsupAZ]

Who posted the link about the cartel person being arrested yesturday? Did that post dissapear? I wanted to read that article. Tia