AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[Laura_Bean]

this is a child. An 8 year old. I do not believe that some people are just born evil. I don't think he should be in prison for the rest of his life. I think he is a young child who needs a lot of counseling, (if he is guilty). Is it entirely possible his step-mother killed the two men? Could she have gotten the 8 year old to admit to it, because she figured he wouldn't be in trouble, if he was convicted of it? Children are easily manipulated into such lies. Take me for example. My step-mother had me completely trained when I was 8 and even older. I fell down the stairs. I got that bruise because I fell out of the tree in my backyard. I tripped on the stairs. I would have said anything she told me to say, or she was going to kill my cat, my grandma, and everyone else I cared about. And she wasn't born evil either, her father did things to her as a child that messed her up big time. So is this child just plain evil? Probably not. If he did pull the trigger, I would say it was due to horrendous abuse and mistreatment, and he may not have.

 

[Julessleuther]

Could he have shot his father accidently the first time, but then realized what he had done, so felt he had to "put him out of suffering"?

There is a possible scenario for how he may have known that his father had been shot in the chest.

In his first statement he said something about he had moved his father to see if he was alive. Now he didn't tell the LE (but in a state of shock at finding his father dead I don't know how trustworthy his memory is), but lets say he tried to turn his father over. 8 years old moving dead weight, he probably couldn't turn him over. But he may have managed to raise a shoulder, maybe even enough to see his chest. But when he let go the father's body may have returned to the face first position.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

this is a child. An 8 year old. I do not believe that some people are just born evil. I don't think he should be in prison for the rest of his life. I think he is a young child who needs a lot of counseling, (if he is guilty). Is it entirely possible his step-mother killed the two men? Could she have gotten the 8 year old to admit to it, because she figured he wouldn't be in trouble, if he was convicted of it? Children are easily manipulated into such lies. Take me for example. My step-mother had me completely trained when I was 8 and even older. I fell down the stairs. I got that bruise because I fell out of the tree in my backyard. I tripped on the stairs. I would have said anything she told me to say, or she was going to kill my cat, my grandma, and everyone else I cared about. And she wasn't born evil either, her father did things to her as a child that messed her up big time. So is this child just plain evil? Probably not. If he did pull the trigger, I would say it was due to horrendous abuse and mistreatment, and he may not have.

The stepmother was not there when the crime happened. The boy knew she would be arriving home later than normal.

There is nothing to supoort that this boy was abused. Even his own mother has said that he and his father were very close and went everywhere and did things together and that the boy loved his dad very much.

I think the boy also loves his stepmother. He was very relaxed when he called her "mom" when referring to her. It seemed to come very natural to him.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Could he have shot his father accidentally the first time, but then realized what he had done, so felt he had to "put him out of suffering"?

But why would he even have the gun out and loaded? And where does the murder of Romans come in? And what kid would just keep shooting their father and his friend? If it was an accident then why not run to get help then instead of doing so after both men are already dead?

I would love to see a layout of the inside of that home and where the father's body was located on the stairs and what they will be determine to be the location of where the shooter was standing when he was shot.

imoo

 

[Gray]

The stepmother was still at work.

Well thank God, because she would have been next, I'm sure.

Sheesh.

Thanks for answering, BTW.

 

[colette]

There is a possible scenario for how he may have known that his father had been shot in the chest.

In his first statement he said something about he had moved his father to see if he was alive. Now he didn't tell the LE (but in a state of shock at finding his father dead I don't know how trustworthy his memory is), but lets say he tried to turn his father over. 8 years old moving dead weight, he probably couldn't turn him over. But he may have managed to raise a shoulder, maybe even enough to see his chest. But when he let go the father's body may have returned to the face first position.

When I listened to the tape I heard the kid say he used his foot/shoe to touch his dad to see "if he was a little bit alive", that is not gonna move the body.

I'm thinking that since dad was killed in the stairway, it might have muffled the sound in a way the Mr. Roman didn't hear it.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Supposedly he admitted to the deputies that he planned the murders.

Every time he re-loaded and pulled the trigger proves premeditation alone

 

[Shelby77]

Idk about the layout of the house, but the male officer gave a description of the stairway in the transcript, about the 180 degree turn halfway up the steps, and the landing in between the 2 sets. I remember he specified he could not see VR's body until he was UP the stairs. So if his body was hidden, why didn't CR just wait for Mr. Roman to get in the house before shooting?? He didn't have to worry about anyone seeing the body immediately, if the officer didn't even.......

 

[southcitymom]

Every time he re-loaded and pulled the trigger proves premeditation alone

I think about this fact quite a bit - that a bullet had to be inserted for each shot that was fired. That takes some focus.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
I'm trying to figure this out.I'm really confused now.In the transcripts it says when the person was asked where the casings were found I guess pretty much in the same area?
A.It'll be to the right--just past the--kind of bush,kind of on the pillar there on the floor.Was this out side?Was some one shooting from near the bush on the right at him and he ran to the house.Also did the trascripts say the were different looking casing or casings between his head and hand.If that is correct isn't that showing two different type of guns.

suzanne


http://apacheschighprofile.googlegroups.com/web/JV2008065_Transcript_Nov7_2008_Vol2A.pdf

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi
I'm trying to figure this out.I'm really confused now.In the transcripts it says when the person was asked where the casings were found I guess pretty much in the same area?
A.It'll be to the right--just past the--kind of bush,kind of on the pillar there on the floor.Was this out side?Was some one shooting from near the bush on the right at him and he ran to the house.Also did the transcripts say the were different looking casing or casings between his head and hand.If that is correct isn't that showing two different type of guns.

suzanne

I will have to go back and read it again. With "pillars" it seems that yes that would be right on the outside of the home.

Where the bullet casings were thrown down doesn't tell them where the perp was standing at the time only that this is where they landed when he tossed them out of the gun.

It isn't unusual to find a bullet casing around someone's home that hunts. If they go hunting they may put the spent casing in their pocket or even on the dash and the empty bullet casing can roll out in the yard and they didn't see it.

They will have to have wounds caused by another weapon that matches that casing and if it was fired but did not hit either man there then they will look for where it may have embedded itself in the ground, wall etc.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi
I'm trying to figure this out.I'm really confused now.In the transcripts it says when the person was asked where the casings were found I guess pretty much in the same area?
A.It'll be to the right--just past the--kind of bush,kind of on the pillar there on the floor.Was this out side?Was some one shooting from near the bush on the right at him and he ran to the house.Also did the transcripts say the were different looking casing or casings between his head and hand.If that is correct isn't that showing two different type of guns.

suzanne


http://apacheschighprofile.googlegroups.com/web/JV2008065_Transcript_Nov7_2008_Vol2A.pdf

Susanne.

If you look at this photo it shows the bushes (looks like cedars or some kind of ivy) and the first bush looks to be very close to the house. You will also see the posts or pillars just to the right that is supporting the upper deck. They actually seemed to have planted the cedars close to the supports as they are winding around them.

http://www.azfamily.com/perl/common/slideshow/sspop.pl?recid=12959&nextimage=7

It sure was right up at the door though.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Thankyou.I agree it is close.So the gun and the casings are right out the front door near Mr Romans body?It doesn't look like they were trying to hide anything.

suzanne

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Ok,I went back and looked at the transcripts.They say the gun was found on top of a wire dog kennel inside the front door of the residence.The door is open and it looks like they did not try to hide anything.Well,I don't know what happened here.I will wait untill the ME report and forensic evidence comes out to make a decision.I am curious of who's finger prints if any are found on these casings.

suzanne

 

[liljim]

a few new documents were filed today, nothing that interesting, the defense objects to the motion for dismissal, but would not object if it were refiled "with prejudice". figured that was coming.

 

[mostlylurking]

I'm finding the comments on the ABC interview with the Mom very interesting.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=6320539&page=1

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
I find the comments interesting too.

suzanne

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi
Ok,I went back and looked at the transcripts.They say the gun was found on top of a wire dog kennel inside the front door of the residence.The door is open and it looks like they did not try to hide anything.Well,I don't know what happened here.I will wait until the ME report and forensic evidence comes out to make a decision.I am curious of who's finger prints if any are found on these casings.

suzanne

Fingerprints are very hard to get off of bullet casings, especially casings this small. In fact I read that Britain is developing a new forensic technique to see if it can easier be done.

I went back and read parts of the transcript again and I noticed when the officer talks about the neighbors telling him what they heard.

They said they heard a "pop" then a delay....."pop" then a delay" "pop" then a delay of 3-4 shots. This is consistent with a 22 rifle single bolt action. There would have to be a few seconds delay due to having to reload the weapon each time.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm finding the comments on the ABC interview with the Mom very interesting.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=6320539&page=1

Hi,

Which ones?

 

[liljim]

so i guess he will be released at about noon their time today, it seems odd that the judge made a point to say he must be held initially because he posed a likely threat to his own wellbeing (something like that, not exact words).

you would think there must have been something specific that changed his mind, i know this is a very abnormal case they are dealing with but i still feel there must have been a darn good reason for him to let him out.