Back to the Beginning: Where Might Kyron Be?

[Leila]

Given the tremendous amount of (non) information we have about this case, coupled with an oddly similar call-out I had yesterday; I'm wondering if it might be useful to take a hiatus from trying to solve the case, and return to speculating on where Kyron might be physically located right now. In other words, an IF/THEN approach, leaving the IF's to a minimum.

-snip

Terri alone murdered him and left Kyron's body (sorry to be so graphic) somewhere on SI. She planned it in advance. I believe he was put somewhere in the wildlife/bird sanctuary area. Sad beyond belief.

snip

If this is the case, it would be useful to know what Terri's activities were in the days leading up to Kyron's disappearance. Did she scout an area out as part of her planning? Was Terri away from home and usual errands/activities for a length of time? This is where cell phone pings are going to be helpful in reconstructing where Terri was in the days leading up to Kyron's disappearance. I hope LE is looking into this angle.

 

[Susan10]

JMO, flights, cruises are out, because there are just too many video cameras around both places. Selling this poor baby would be easy to do if you knew the right people. Where did stepmom get all her money to pay the attorney? Im sure she has more of that money. The child buyer paid 1/2 million for such a beautiful child? Do we know if the money was in a bank or was is it cash? Can the FBI order the attorneys checking account statements? No..surely she didnt walk into the attorneys office carring 350,000. Im really sure that the FBI knows where the money come from. If he is alive.

If his was killed, then was she a scuba diver? why was the sticker taken off the back window of that car? Can you leave the basement of the school directly to the parking lot? Why are we using 8:45 as the last time he was seen?

There are people who want and who will pay this much money for a child that they could not have had by themselves. Anything is possible. But, imho, beyond probable at this point. He was seven? Most people with that kind of money would pay for an infant...with papers. Disgusting to even say it. Pedophiles paying so much? Doubtful. Easier children to steal and exploit. I'm sick about this whole thing.

 

[Susan10]

I kind of agree about the river...and also agree he might never be found. But it would not be as easy to put something large into the river without being seen as into the woods, I would think. Seems like there is always action there on the rivers.

He's a teeny in that vast wilderness. I hate the fact that Kyron may never be found. TH will never admit anything.

Ted Bundy never admitted anything until he knew there was a firm chance he would be executed....then he began to cough up more victims. He never did cough up the locations of them all. He never got the chance. zzzzzt.

He couldn't believe the big hoopla over his crimes. He stated to the FBI interviewer guy writing a book about him, "Maybe it was the number of them" or something to that effect. He couldn't understand why people were outside of the prison chanting and shouting, "Burn, Bundy, burn."

He never got it about what he did. He never thought it was that big of deal. He did not want to be caught as some have suggested. He also told the interviewer sithat he never thought his victims would be missed.

His autopsy found a small tumor in his right temporal lobe. So what.

She's not a thrill killer like Bundy, but her compassion for others equals his if she has done this. imo.

SI and birds. Please don't disturb the nests. How sad for the innocent wildlife who are just trying to earnestly live, too, that humans will be destroying their homes looking for a small boy's remains discarded by a souless human murderess. imo.

 

[Susan10]

I looked for my friend's missing child years ago. Quite frankly, it's even worse than looking for a needle in a haystack as you only have the haystack to go through.

I think the fact that Terri had the truck on Thursday might be of interest. Perhaps she scoped it all out that day and prepared.

Sorry. It must still haunt you...and your friend has never recovered fully, I presume.

 

[Susan10]

If you also check the SAR blogs and logs, you will see the difficulty they had in 'clearing' certain areas due to terrain, accessability, etc. I am not certain if all of those areas have been re-searched or not- please let me know what you find.

I would love to see a full scale re-search of the area, using fresh grids, fresh teams, and coming at it from a cadaver- only aspect. (Well I would hate that part, but obviously it would be necessary.)
Unfortunately, I think that is the most likely scenario.

So, innocent animal wildlife habitat has been chopped down and destroyed because of this murder(ess). Homes destroyed. They have nowhere else to go. The pain, death and destruction continues. Hate eats at my soul because of it. I feel hate for the person who caused all this.

These kind of crimes destroy me. Sometimes I really don't know how much more I can stand. It's the people who commit them that I cannot stand and the unbearable heartache left in its wake.

 

[Kat]

1) I highly doubt Kyron was put on any international flight... unless Terri purchased a fake passport for him... but I am sure that all flights out of the area were checked out (I would hope) and that any kids matching his description would have raised a red flag

2) If Terri killed him he is somewhere within 15 mile radius of the school in an area familiar to her


snip

above bold mine

This is my belief - that poor Kyron's remains are in an area familiar to Terri. Perhaps Terri's friends or soon-to-be ex-husband can shed some light on her favorite areas. i doubt that she explored them alone. SI somewhere.

WARNING SOMEWHAT GRAPHIC DISCUSSION OF KYRON:

I agree susan and nursie. Further, I would speculate that he is bundled in a covering of some sort. (sheets or blanket or old sleeping bag). Even if she did murder him like so many of us believe...she still was a care provider for Kyron and that relationship would impact the care in which she would have disposed of his remains. Given that she was a care provider in a Maternal like role I would wonder if she placed him water? Perhaps not. She didn't chuck him in the woods like KC did to Caylee though (even KC wrapped Caylee up in several layers), I think she may have buried him, or in some way hid him by covering with foliage, etc.

JMHO and opinion from having watched so many of our missing children who have been found that were murdered by their caretakers.

 

[Susan10]

I'm starting to wish Tim Miller and Equusearch could travel to Oregon and start looking. I know Kyron's family would be more than willing to work with them, and maybe they could help find him. I'm wondering why LE hasn't done more searches and just one search do over. That doesn't make me feel very good.

And I personally still think they need to look watery places, like lakes and rivers. I still think she wouldn't risk a grave being found so easily. It seems like she's pretty darn sure that he'll never be found. If he is, I see that as the only thing that will make her break.

ITA. She didn't learn about pings from CSI, but she did learn about watery places, imho, washing away so much evidence.....but not all, TG.

 

[LillyRush]

It would have been very easy, based on the lapsed time of 8:45 am to 3:45 PM, for someone (anyone) to have taken Kyron out of Portland by car and driven into Canada. The longest it has ever taken me to get to Portland from Seattle was 4 hours and that was due to traffic in the Tacoma area. But, on average, it is only 2 and a half to 3 hours. The trip to Canada from Seattle would be another 3 (give or take). In my experience, the border patrol lets people into Canada very quickly. It's only on the way back into the US that they do more detailed questioning, searching, etc.

I have gotten into Canada with out them looking at my or my passenger's identification, even after I asked if they wanted to see it. The guy just asked what we were planning on doing, where we were originally from, how old we were, etc. just generic questions without looking at anything and then told us to have fun. So, not only would they probably not have been asking people much info...but in Kyron's case someone could have reached the border with him before he was even reported missing and no one at the border would have been alerted yet.

 

[cluciano63]

If he buried it truly be years, if ever, before he is accidently found. If in water, also maybe never. The most hopeful of the ways, if he is not alive, is if he is in the woods and even that would require an accidental find. I get the feeling that Kaine is not the person to ask about where Terri like to go or what she liked to do.

Somehow, some way, if Terri is guilty, she must be convinced to tell where he is. If she did this in a rage at Kaine, or by accident, or even by design, she is probably regretting it and is scared of what is happening. If only she would talk to someone she trusts about that day and either clear up her whereabouts or admit what happened...

 

[Oriah]

If one pulls up Google maps and zooms in close they will see that, in addition to these paved roads, there are dozens upon dozens of dirt roads branching off from the main roads. For those on this thread (not you BeanE) who think that LE should be "searching" for Kyron I ask: Where should LE start? And how many manhours do you estimate that it would take to search a single mile of road, a hundred yards back on both sides? As many locals have pointed out, this is rugged, wooded terrain with thick undergrowth, and deep ravines. Kyron's body could have been dumped anywhere. In this terrain a child’s body could be a foot away from you and hidden from your view. Locating a needle in a haystack would be a piece of cake compared to locating a body in ten square miles of Oregon backcountry.

If LE receives tips that lead them to suspect that Tyron’s body was dumped off a certain stretch of road I am certain they will send out search teams. However for LE to blindly deploy search teams would be, IMO, an irresponsible waste of resources and dollars. Oregon LE has a tons of experience doing wilderness searches. I, for one, trust their judgment as to when it makes sense to undertake an intensive ground search.

This Wikipedia article about Forest Park contains photos that give a good idea of how dense the vegetation is the area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Park_(Portland,_Oregon)

BBM:
I believe this is very true, and was the purpose in starting this thread. If tips can be generated that point to possible/likely locations of Kyron, LE will get searchers out there. They have the manpower and the resources, but they need to know how and where to direct them. Using the theories, thoughts, ideas, and professional knowledge that we have here on this board- I would think we would be able to come up with some pinpointed locations for LE. KWIM?
But we need locations.
Location, location, location peeps. Thus, the "IF this happened HERE, then WHERE might Kyron be now" approach.

Let's help bring Kyron home.

 

[Oriah]

Did LE indicate that they were financially strapped vis a vis this investigation ? IIRC, didn't they say that they were not seeking more money for this investigation right now,that they didn't need it ? Could swear it was in that last presser...

Yes, the terrain here in the NW can be rugged ; which makes TES more of a viable resource IMO. Drones and horseback riders can be highly effective IMO.

As to an area to start, how about a new search within a 2-3 mile radius of Skyline Elementary ? The place where this child was last seen.....


All JMO

It's not a question of $$$ I don't think. It's a need to know where to look.

BBM: I agree that the radius around Skyline needs to be re-done.

 

[Oriah]

My head has been spinning thinking about this. I have it broken down to these alternatives, based on some things:

1. Only TH involved, Kyron deceased. In this scenario, Kyron would likely be within a few miles of the school.

2. TH involved with accomplice (maybe DDS), Kyron deceased. Kyron could be anywhere.

3. TH involved with accomplice (maybe DDS), Kyron alive. Kyron could be anywhere.

4. Someone independent of TH involved, Kyron deceased. Kyron could be anywhere.

5. Someone independent of TH involved, Kyron alive. Kyron could be anywhere.

IMO, The only scenario where it would make sense that he is close to home with any certainty is #1. With any of the others (the way I have them slotted in my head), he could be anywhere (anywhere including within a few miles of the school).

Going through this in my head is sad to me. I can see what LE is up against. I guess it makes sense for them to focus on the scenarios where he is alive.
Again, all MOO and all that.

Thank you for this post Barry. Yes, LE is up against a lot. It's so much easier when someone fesses up and points to a location. Small wonder why victims families and LE are willing to plea deal so often, just to find the location of their loved-one.

Since no one is talking at this point, I guess we'll have to think outside of the box on this one.
I agree about the several miles surrounding Skyline, as well as the other scenarios you state.

But lets take a different approach, since in many scenarios, Kyron could be 'anywhere.'

Besides TV and directed internet searches, has anyone outside of the Portland area seen posters, flyers, notification in any way of Kyron's case?

 

[Oriah]

Respectfully,

#6 Kyron lured by a pedophile,dumped in one of the ravines in the woods near Skyline Elementary School

# 7. Kyron abducted,killed, buried,or in someone's shed, in the area of Skyline Elementary school


All JMO

Thank you. Again, we look in the area of Skyline.

 

[Oriah]

Lots of Alaska cruises leave out of Seattle and might stop in B.C. There's also a ferry from Bellingham to Alaska that makes a couple stops in B.C.

Do you know if you need a valid passport to embark on the ferry? I know you do for the cruises. TIA.

 

[Calliope]

Do you know if you need a valid passport to embark on the ferry? I know you do for the cruises. TIA.

What I quoted above says you don't need a passport if the ship is returning to the same port in the US. Closed *something* cruises...

 

[Oriah]

The initial ground search for Kyron covered an area with a radius of 2 1/2 m from Skyline School and utilized more than 500 trained search personel from 17 governmental agencies, in addition to searchers from volunteer SAR groups, including Explorer Boy Scouts. A circle with a radius of 2 1/2 miles has an area of almost 20 sq miles. Increasing the radius by 1/2 mile - from 2/12 to 3 miles - would increase the area by an additional 8 square miles. Ground searches are very labor intensive.

I have no idea what purpose drones could serve. The vegetation is far too dense. There were reports of searchers on horseback on Sauvie Island. Horses wouldn't be of much value searching for a body in areas with thick undergrowth. You could be on horseback, step over a body, and see nothing.

PS. The "angry" smiley is not mine. It was attached to the post I quoted.

Ground searches are very labor intensive indeed, and I agree about drones in this situation. Horses I think could be useful if there are animal trails in the area. I don't see someone slogging through significant underbrush to dump a body, but I can see them following a deer trail. Small children getting lost- well, I wouldn't put that past anything. They get themselves in the tightest spots.

I think it might be useful to actually shrink the intial search area, triangulate out from there, and use resources directed only at finding a cadaver.

 

[Oriah]

Given the tremendous amount of (non) information we have about this case, coupled with an oddly similar call-out I had yesterday; I'm wondering if it might be useful to take a hiatus from trying to solve the case, and return to speculating on where Kyron might be physically located right now. In other words, an IF/THEN approach, leaving the IF's to a minimum.

-snip

Terri alone murdered him and left Kyron's body (sorry to be so graphic) somewhere on SI. She planned it in advance. I believe he was put somewhere in the wildlife/bird sanctuary area. Sad beyond belief.

snip

Thank you. What makes you think of the wildlife santuary?

 

[Calliope]

Deer trail ...

Are there areas nearby frequented by hunters? Stands? Hunting cabins or camps?

For locals ... I know hunting season is usually in the fall / winter. Any season in early June? Does there seem to be a problem with people hunting out of season?

 

[Oriah]

So, innocent animal wildlife habitat has been chopped down and destroyed because of this murder(ess). Homes destroyed. They have nowhere else to go. The pain, death and destruction continues. Hate eats at my soul because of it. I feel hate for the person who caused all this.

These kind of crimes destroy me. Sometimes I really don't know how much more I can stand. It's the people who commit them that I cannot stand and the unbearable heartache left in its wake.

I understand your pain.

I do want to say, however, that most SAR that I know does their best to be sensitive to wildlife and habitat when conducting searches. Please don't be heartbroken over images of SAR cutting through swatches of undergrowth. That undergrowth will grow back in no time. Protected areas are always respectfully searched by SAR (IME.)

 

[Oriah]

What I quoted above says you don't need a passport if the ship is returning to the same port in the US. Closed *something* cruises...

Oh- yes, sorry I did not mean that Calliope. I was thinking of cruises in general vs. ferries. Anyone know about the ferries? I would think they'd be even less likely to require a passport, in the sprit of keeping to schedules, speed, efficiency, etc.