Baez Files 8 Motions In Case

[Seranade]

btw, not seeing how they'd get results of poly because there's no court that allows it to be admitted. Statements, yes, poly report? Doubt it.

I agree, that one is a non-starter.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Frip~ You are gonna make a lot of work for JBean. LOL Just saying...

 

[Friptzap]

Sorry if its alot but I thought it would be good to post since many have asked. I think the key component of everyones concern is this paragraph:

(b) Prosecutor’s Discovery Obligation.
(1) Within 15 days after service of the Notice of Discovery, the prosecutor shall serve a written Discovery
Exhibit which shall disclose to the defendant and permit the defendant to inspect, copy, test, and photograph the
following information and material within the state’s possession or control:​

But HEY they MUST RECIPROCATE if they want to participate in discovery!​

 

[SeriouslySearching]

We are only allowed to post a small portion then a link to the rest. It is good info to have on here tho!!

 

[MiraclesHappen]

Sorry if its alot but I thought it would be good to post since many have asked. I think the key component of everyones concern is this paragraph:

(b) Prosecutor’s Discovery Obligation.
(1) Within 15 days after service of the Notice of Discovery, the prosecutor shall serve a written Discovery
Exhibit which shall disclose to the defendant and permit the defendant to inspect, copy, test, and photograph the
following information and material within the state’s possession or control:​

But HEY they MUST RECIPROCATE if they want to participate in discovery!​

Thank you Frip:blowkiss:
As`I had said before, Baez did not limit his motions to materials in the custody or control of the State. (mistake).

Whatever route the discovery process takes, the prosecutors obligations are only with regard to offenses CHARGED.

Nothing in the rules covers the Baez time machine into the future. (mistake)

I'd object to everything just to jerk him around at this point.
Not arguing here.....just poopooing Baez.....

 

[trac]

Sorry if its alot but I thought it would be good to post since many have asked. I think the key component of everyones concern is this paragraph:

(b) Prosecutor’s Discovery Obligation.
(1) Within 15 days after service of the Notice of Discovery, the prosecutor shall serve a written Discovery
Exhibit which shall disclose to the defendant and permit the defendant to inspect, copy, test, and photograph the
following information and material within the state’s possession or control:​

But HEY they MUST RECIPROCATE if they want to participate in discovery!​

Also we have forgotten that WHEN Casey has been charged with homicide - right now it's neglect and the chloroform, forensic testing is not part of the neglect investigation

So basically Baez wants the whole kit and kaboodle whether it's part of the original charge or not and that just ain't the way it's done

And your right - Baez has to give up everything he has to get what he wants and he doesn't want to do that

 

[Friptzap]

I have a question concerning Baez I have heard he’s only been practicing a short time but does anyone know what his win/lose has been on other cases.

You ask I find!
http://www.wesh.com/news/17030505/detail.html

Who Is Jose B?

A jury found Diaz guilty on murder charges.
Two other well publicized case, one was found innocent (main witness refused to testify) they do not say what the statues of the case other is. All three are mentioned in the news report.

 

[Friptzap]

We are only allowed to post a small portion then a link to the rest. It is good info to have on here tho!!

Well whenever I do that people want to argue its not enough ;-)

But this is also from Florida Bar Association and State of Florida websites for public use so I don't think there will be any copyright issues, which is one of the main purposes for not posting the whole thing, Oh there are dozens more pages too ;-) lol I only posted the discovery portion

If a mod wishes they can cut it all short, I just feel people will say but thats only part of the rules etc etc, this is the entire section on discovery can't deny it it's right there ;-) I didn't write it some other legal wizard did! But yeah normally I only post portions Some larger than others....

 

[Bree0372]

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1006/17633458.pdf p 03/06

4. The defendant has hired an expert to conduct similar testing of the vehicle in question in preparation for trial and to rebut the findings of the State experts as regards the testing conducted on the vehicle....

nothing like an unbiased expert. < / sarc>

Kobi? Who I used to think was pretty unbiased. NG needs to bring him back because the more he has talked, since being retained, the more he contradicts himself from things he previously stated.

I think they will let her go, although with an escort or official of some kind (officers? YM? someone trustworthy) cause at the end of the day there is a missing child and if there is a chance she is alive and KC knows where or (more likely) dead and KC could inadvertently lead them....they cant take the chance to say no...

<respectfully snipped>

I don't think the judge will let her go, but I would love to see where she would go if given the opportunity (of course, this should require a security person to ensure that she won't 'run').

<respectfully snipped>

Does anyone else fiind this strange or am I the only one think this is bizarre? DATES and FACTS do not mesh up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is wrong with this picture! We still have a MISSING CHILD and more than likely no longer with us and it seems nothing coming from the defense is true just a bunch of mis-truths.................... and PR stunts and a whole lot of BS.

I think it is unreal that a 'mother' (and I use that term loosely in this case) can not remember the last day that she saw her child. As a foster parent who gave back a child in April, I can tell you the exact date, time, location, etc., to include what the child was wearing. I think it is unbelievable that they had their dates so screwed up.

I loved the report, I think it was wesh, but they state after 82 days Casey NOW has an interest in finding her daughter - so why now????? Whats so different???

<respectfully snipped>

Honestly ridiculous!

I totally agree - what is the importance of finding her now, KC? You waited 31 days before you told anyone except the 2 invisi-friends (JH and JL) and now you want to go searching? Why not when LP bailed your butt out? Why didn't you want to search then? (I have so many questions for this callous monster.)

There is a case or investigation pending with the appropriate state agency, and I do think the sole custodial parent can be required to produce her child to be seen or examined or suffer the consequences. As to the charges pending in state court, I think good arguments can be made for neglect. What about the supervision aspect? Remember that Casey has claimed at various times that she knows who had Caylee and even where she was. What about her failure to know anything about her alleged babysitter or how to contact her? That no one lived in the apartment where she routinely dropped her off? That she waited 30 days before involving the appropriate authorities? And that during that thirty days she didn't even look for her? I think this epitomizes neglect.

I thought it was interesting that all of the phone numbers that she needed were always in the 'phone she lost'; however, she told LE that she tried calling ZG from the steps of Sawgrass. Which is it, KC? Oh the web of lies she has weaved.

Does KC have to answer questions from Judge in this hearing? Directly? I would imagine so, but I don't know.

Jenny, I would think that she would have to answer any questions that won't incriminate herself - thus she could plea the 5th on those questions. JMO

They simply cannot go forward on the neglect charges if they intend to indict her for murder. Double jeopardy will attach because the prosecution cannot try her on the one hand solely for neglect and nothing else, and then turn around and try her for murdering the same child in another, seperate trial.

They would elevate the charges and reset the date.

Seranade - below are sections of an email I received from a great friend of mine who is a Defense Attorney for the State of Florida:

She can't be tried on the same issue twice...but murder and neglect are two wholly different things. If neglect was simply a lessor included offense of murder then she couldn't be tried for murder after a conviction on neglect...the two crimes involve some of the same elements that the state would have to prove but they are not the same elements. To prove murder the state would have to show some of the same things it did to prove neglect...but not all of the same...so it's not considered a lessor included offense.

For example...she couldn't be charged with murder then later charged with felony murder...because proving murder and felony murder would involve the same elements. Or battery and aggravated battery arising from the same offense. But a person could be charged with assault in a case and then later charged with battery because they don't involve the same elements of proof...even though they arose from the same incident.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

snipped***

She can't be tried on the same issue twice...but murder and neglect are two wholly different things. If neglect was simply a lessor included offense of murder then she couldn't be tried for murder after a conviction on neglect...the two crimes involve some of the same elements that the state would have to prove but they are not the same elements. To prove murder the state would have to show some of the same things it did to prove neglect...but not all of the same...so it's not considered a lessor included offense.

For example...she couldn't be charged with murder then later charged with felony murder...because proving murder and felony murder would involve the same elements. Or battery and aggravated battery arising from the same offense. But a person could be charged with assault in a case and then later charged with battery because they don't involve the same elements of proof...even though they arose from the same incident.

Thanks Bree:toast:

This whole double jeopardy issue has gotten out of control. The problem seems to arise because of the statutory language used in the Florida statute which includes the language of arising out of the same transaction.....
from CH 775.021.....

) Whoever, in the course of one criminal transaction or episode, commits an act or acts which constitute one or more separate criminal offenses, upon conviction and adjudication of guilt, shall be sentenced separately for each criminal offense; and the sentencing judge may order the sentences to be served concurrently or consecutively. For the purposes of this subsection, offenses are separate if each offense requires proof of an element that the other does not, without regard to the accusatory pleading or the proof adduced at trial.

This in no way precludes the state from going forward on the neglect charge and also doing murder at a later date. The statutory purpose is not to exonerate any one, it is to be sure all offenses are punished. Big DIFF!!!

Courts in Florida, up to its Supreme Court have handed down decisions which make the different elements argument put forth by Bree, clear. They have disgarded decisions which do otherwise!!!

This is all my humble opinion obviously.

But in a worse case scenario, if the neglect precluded the murder, the District Attorney's office would dismiss the neglect to preserve the murder.
(although that is not the case...just tossin it out). And yes, they can just dismiss charges. The grounds for the motion to dismiss would be "In the interests of Justice."

Other than that, the issue has become ther_beatingA_Dead blown out of proportion to a point at which some folks are thinking that neglect and Murder are mutually exclusive. or that it is black and white letter of the law. The laws in this case do NOT favor Miss Casey. If they did for starters, a body would be needed. Baez or whoever defends her, has a helluva fight on their hands. jmo

 

[amethyst221]

Great post about the supposed double jeopardy issue. I don't see why the state can't proceed on both charges, at least for as long as they want to do so.

 

[MD MOMMY]

Wouldn't they just drop the neglect charges and proceed with the rest? IMO that is what is going to go down.

 

[Bree0372]

Wouldn't they just drop the neglect charges and proceed with the rest? IMO that is what is going to go down.

They could just go after both charges - which is very likely.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

This whole double jeopardy issue has gotten out of control. The problem seems to arise because of the statutory language used in the Florida statute which includes the language of arising out of the same transaction.....
from CH 775.021.....

) Whoever, in the course of one criminal transaction or episode, commits an act or acts which constitute one or more separate criminal offenses, upon conviction and adjudication of guilt, shall be sentenced separately for each criminal offense; and the sentencing judge may order the sentences to be served concurrently or consecutively. For the purposes of this subsection, offenses are separate if each offense requires proof of an element that the other does not, without regard to the accusatory pleading or the proof adduced at trial.

This in no way precludes the state from going forward on the neglect charge and also doing murder at a later date. The statutory purpose is not to exonerate any one, it is to be sure all offenses are punished. Big DIFF!!!

Courts in Florida, up to its Supreme Court have handed down decisions which make the different elements argument put forth by Bree, clear. They have disgarded decisions which do otherwise!!!

This is all my humble opinion obviously.

But in a worse case scenario, if the neglect precluded the murder, the District Attorney's office would dismiss the neglect to preserve the murder.
(although that is not the case...just tossin it out). And yes, they can just dismiss charges. The grounds for the motion to dismiss would be "In the interests of Justice."

Other than that, the issue has become ther_beatingA_Dead blown out of proportion to a point at which some folks are thinking that neglect and Murder are mutually exclusive. or that it is black and white letter of the law. The laws in this case do NOT favor Miss Casey. If they did for starters, a body would be needed. Baez or whoever defends her, has a helluva fight on their hands. jmo

Thanks for clearing that up for us!! :clap:

 

[Friptzap]

Thanks for clearing that up for us!! :clap:

Indeed!

 

[Gaia713]

Also we have forgotten that WHEN Casey has been charged with homicide - right now it's neglect and the chloroform, forensic testing is not part of the neglect investigation

So basically Baez wants the whole kit and kaboodle whether it's part of the original charge or not and that just ain't the way it's done

And your right - Baez has to give up everything he has to get what he wants and he doesn't want to do that

Gee, do you think he has anything other than "fantasy: at this point?

 

[tsitra01]

I've been lurking for awhile without posting but had to add some thoughts
and hope not ones that have been repeated earliar.
JB made the remark a few weeks ago when they were showing pics of KC
at Fusian and other places enjoying herself, that maybe she had no
reason at that time to be upset about Caylee.
Leads me to believe she has thought up an extension of her lies to claim that "the Script" stated that Caylee was safe and would be returned in a month which in KC talk she was stupid enough to believe. Also KC commenting during her interview that she would steal and lie
anytime if it would help her find her daughter.

Do you think this is going to be her defense?
One lie takes care of her "Happy Hours" at the club and sleeping parties
with her boyfriends. The theft lie takes care of the other charge.

 

[Friptzap]

btw, not seeing how they'd get results of poly because there's no court that allows it to be admitted. Statements, yes, poly report? Doubt it.

Does not matter either way, if they do not plan to submitt anything they don't have to provide it either. So maybe they don't plan to "try" and use it anyway. Plus I do not believe they gave anyone anyway. I know her ex-fiance said he would submitt to one if they asked but he said they never asked.

 

[Friptzap]

I've been lurking for awhile without posting but had to add some thoughts
and hope not ones that have been repeated earliar.
JB made the remark a few weeks ago when they were showing pics of KC
at Fusian and other places enjoying herself, that maybe she had no
reason at that time to be upset about Caylee.
Leads me to believe she has thought up an extension of her lies to claim that "the Script" stated that Caylee was safe and would be returned in a month which in KC talk she was stupid enough to believe. Also KC commenting during her interview that she would steal and lie
anytime if it would help her find her daughter.

Do you think this is going to be her defense?
One lie takes care of her "Happy Hours" at the club and sleeping parties
with her boyfriends. The theft lie takes care of the other charge.

I think she is testing the waters with ALL of her "fantasies" to see which one people might be believing in the most so she can finalize her story line.

 

[lin]

You ask I find!
http://www.wesh.com/news/17030505/detail.html

Who Is Jose B?

A jury found Diaz guilty on murder charges.
Two other well publicized case, one was found innocent (main witness refused to testify) they do not say what the statues of the case other is. All three are mentioned in the news report.

Looks like he was admitted to the Florida Bar 09/22/2005. Does anyone know if he practiced anywhere else prior? TIA