GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #4

[SouthAussie]

Is anyone else curious about why there are absolutely no articles in the Bali press ever since AS made the US news in regards to HM? The photographers are still hanging around because they can sell the pics to the AP or Getty. But it appears that no Indonesian news source wants to touch this story anymore.

MOO

Well, I looked and looked for a legal reason why so little of the court proceedings in Bali are reported. As I mentioned before, it is a common thing for very little of the actual proceedings to be reported - just lots of photos and video of the accused entering court, leaving court, some footage of inside the court. What we have seen, to date, is par for the course imo.

There does not seem to be any sub judice in Indonesia, no mention of gag orders being the norm - though it is apparent from reporting that they do implement them at times, but there is certainly no evidence of extensive court reporting either.

I think it may be the case that media is just not allowed into the court room, other than a single photographer. At least, it appears that way to me.

The court seats are certainly not crammed with people, which you would expect if reporters were allowed in.

 

[SouthAussie]

Here is an informative article about 'freedom' of the press in Indonesia, and the restrictions and lawsuits they are subjected to - despite being considered one of the freest media in that region.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2012/indonesia#.VNa6VfmUceg

 

[SouthAussie]

A couple of other items that may have some bearing on the lack of reporters in the Indonesian courts.


On occasion, Indonesian judges have apparently felt compelled to comment to the media, about the procedures which have been adopted in court and the course the trial or appeal will take. Why the judges took that course, I do not know, but it is fair to say that some of the criticism of the Indonesian courts in Australian newspapers has been ill-informed and intemperate. Particular judges may have become aware of that and felt it desirable and appropriate to provide some level of public explanation.

http://nswca.jc.nsw.gov.au/courtofappeal/Speeches/basten_2005.10.30c.pdf


"The level of legal training is pretty low by international standards. Some judges are trained internationally, but these three (in Schapelle's case), I understand, are not. That means that their understanding of rules of evidence and so on and their capacity for evidence to be tampered with or to be otherwise modified is pretty low. Again, they're not going to be looking at the niceties or the fine points of the judicial process. They're going to be looking at essentially the prima facie evidence and judging accordingly."

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1350992.htm

 

[SouthAussie]

Heather Mack’s attorney, Ary Soenardi, told NBC 5 Investigates through a third party in Indonesia that Mack was “sick”.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/investiga...ospital-Attorney-291109001.html#ixzz3R7ePAbDg


Well, we know that! But he was speaking of HM's rush to the hospital a couple of days ago .. so, to me, it sounds as though it was just pizza-induced heartburn (as Kamille suggested), and who knows if there was really blood or if it was just normal discharge. She is such a liar, who the heck can take anything she says seriously?? :wolf:

Too bad that she doesn't have her mum around to help her out with the normalcies of pregnancy. Oh, that's right, she murdered her mum. :doh:


I fully expect her to be in court on Monday and Wednesday again this week (if those are the allocated days).

 

[tarjessi]

It's strange because if you watch that tape, it appears to be all jumbled up and out of sequence but what I see is the reporters first got wind of this story when she was at the hospital. Who are the guys in the green and black shirts? Paramedics? Where's a prison guard?

Anyway, when she is at the hospital she appears to be carrying a purse and something else. Is the purple shirt from the prison to show that she is a prisoner? Then it cuts to pictures of her getting out of the ambulance and entering the prison through that steel door that her and TS are seen leaving from when they are being transported to court. Holding all her stuff in a garbage bag. With reporters asking her how's the baby. Then it cuts to pictures of her in the ambulance in what appears to be traffic trying to get to the prison.

So the tape is all over place and it appears as though she went to the hospital, got checked out, and then went back to the prison. Nothing to see here but probably some heartburn from the fries, burgers and pizza. LOL

MOO

I did briefly wonder if the $50K is perhaps for Ary to arrange for her escape instead? I seriously doubt it...but the thought did cross my mind.

 

[SouthAussie]

I did briefly wonder if the $50K is perhaps for Ary to arrange for her escape instead? I seriously doubt it...but the thought did cross my mind.

I thought it was likely for Tommy for performing the $50,000 hit on her mother. :facepalm:


.

 

[newone]

I thought it was likely for Tommy for performing the $50,000 hit on her mother. :facepalm:

:facepalm:

but you are correct -- she owes him 50K doesn't she

if he gets testy enough perhaps he'll bring that up during testimony

wouldn't that make her ''equally'' culpable under Indonesian laws?

 

[FigTree]

:facepalm:

but you are correct -- she owes him 50K doesn't she

if he gets testy enough perhaps he'll bring that up during testimony

wouldn't that make her ''equally'' culpable under Indonesian laws?

Yes, I think I mentioned before that there is a reason behind these two accused murderers sticking together - a promise of $50k makes for a pretty strong glue.
Or even some money for him to eat properly and have some protection or better conditions in the men's section of the facility.

It has always seemed macabre and twisted to me as to why HM keeps on good terms with TS -
I think because if she didn't, he may implicate her to the full extent - which would be closer to the truth - but it may also cut off any money she has access to.
Its easy to see that there is room for tactics from HM - she's the one with the money. Without the trial in a conviction stage HM can manoeuvre TS to keep to the friendship and story up regarding both their innocence. That 'innocence' also serves to keep the trust fund legally open and accessible because without a conviction the money is still available to 'buy' friends and influence people. She seems to also be starting to use the baby.
While HM has access to the money - the truth will evade this trial, and possibly reduce her sentence in Bali - but what of TS? - HM will save her own skin while she has money, a baby, and a baby who is an heir to the trusts money.
If the money is a factor, and TS gets the DP and HM doesn't, do you think he will be willing to say the truth? because by then it will be too late.
Her 'stay strong' message to him across the courtyard through the bars of their incarceration, seemed technically convoluted - as she downs another hamburger and fries, pouting and pining to the media like a victim.

Either the money has to stop - or someone has to pay a bigger sum than what HM has to offer to over-ride her influence. (JTA: Cant see either happening but it was a thought, and I dont support any bribery)
Though both of them have to answer to the US courts regardless of what happens here in Bali if they both went without conviction in Bali.

As for HM doing a runner -HM does not have that sort of money and she would have to waddle away seeing that she is pregnant.

 

[gracehatter]

Yes, I think I mentioned before that there is a reason behind these two accused murderers sticking together - a promise of $50k makes for a pretty strong glue.
Or even some money for him to eat properly and have some protection or better conditions in the men's section of the facility.

While HM has access to the money - the truth will evade this trial, and possibly reduce her sentence in Bali - but what of TS? - QUOTE]

She probably can funnel a few dollars to TS, but large sums??? I doubt it, the judge already warned her and she'd be risking getting anymore if she violates the court order.

I may be way off here but honestly, and I know a few of you will disagree but I think it is chilvary in regards to the mother of his unborn child and the baby itself. TS is a goner, does anyone disagree with that assessment? What he can do as a man to protect and serve them is most limited so he is doing what he can, standing by his woman. Ok, bring on the scorn, lol!! :scared:

 

[Orange Tabby]

I may be way off here but honestly, and I know a few of you will disagree but I think it is chilvary in regards to the mother of his unborn child and the baby itself. TS is a goner, does anyone disagree with that assessment? What he can do as a man to protect and serve them is most limited so he is doing what he can, standing by his woman. Ok, bring on the scorn, lol!! :scared:

I think the main reason that Tommy sticks with the “I did it, Heather was in another room” story is that it is his best — although very weak — chance of avoiding a guilty finding on premeditation. It’s very hard to argue that two people both simultaneously got so angry that they spontaneously beat someone to death without intending it and without realizing the harm they were doing.

He can never say that it was Heather’s idea because his going along with her scheme is then clear premeditation.

He’s trapped. Those are his fingerprints (so we are told) on the murder weapon.

Nonetheless, I agree with you that protecting Heather and the unborn baby plays a role in his thinking. I think it may make it easier for him to bear the role of sole attacker (because he imagines this is noble, as you say) and may also partially assuage his guilt (if he feels any).

You'll get no scorn from me.

 

[gracehatter]

I think the main reason that Tommy sticks with the “I did it, Heather was in another room” story is that it is his best — although very weak — chance of avoiding a guilty finding on premeditation.

The fruit bowl is still a problem there I think, regardless of their story...so hard to say. How many days do you think they will be in session this week?

 

[Orange Tabby]

The fruit bowl is still a problem there I think, regardless of their story...so hard to say. How many days do you think they will be in session this week?

That fruit bowl has always been a problem for them, I couldn't agree more! The "I got angry and hit her with a gift of a stolen souvenir" story is clearly rubbish. But the story's out there, waiting for someone to believe it.

I think they will only be in session on Wednesdays. But who knows?

 

[Orange Tabby]

The fruit bowl is still a problem there I think, regardless of their story...so hard to say.

I'll put it another way: How can Tommy implicate Heather without acknowledging premeditation?

 

[SouthAussie]

I may be way off here but honestly, and I know a few of you will disagree but I think it is chilvary in regards to the mother of his unborn child and the baby itself. TS is a goner, does anyone disagree with that assessment? What he can do as a man to protect and serve them is most limited so he is doing what he can, standing by his woman. Ok, bring on the scorn, lol!! :scared:

No scorn from me either, gracehatter. My comment about the $50,000 was really just a joke. :blush:

I think that Tommy thinks (knows?) that it is his baby that Heather is carrying, and that accounts for his protective nature.

Though I have been watching the body language between him and Heather a lot lately. I don't think he is as enamoured with Heather as he once appeared to be. And sometimes the look in his eye when he looks at her seems to say a lot of nasty things. Well, as much as you can tell from media pics and video, anyway.

In the video of their first walk to court, he held a white paper protectively in front of her baby bump at one point. Now he drags along behind her, makes no physical contact with her. I think the relationship is on the rocks.

 

[ajaylee]

I'll put it another way: How can Tommy implicate Heather without acknowledging premeditation?

Easy. TS can say HM struck the first blow, SWM's nose broke, blood everywhere (including on HM's shirt), she and SWM were struggling, she cried out to TS for help and the rest is history.

 

[SouthAussie]

Easy. TS can say HM struck the first blow, SWM's nose broke, blood everywhere (including on HM's shirt), she and SWM were struggling, she cried out to TS for help and the rest is history.

:yes: we can always go back to our first theory ... that Heather did the murder, Tommy did the clean up. I have never liked that fruit bowl theory anyway. And I have never liked that Tommy smashed Sheila in the face - not impossible, but more likely a Heather-thing imo.

And I would love to know if they had identical fruit bowls in their rooms - and would the hotel even know what fruit bowl was in what room? ... maybe ... maybe not.

(I definitely can believe the suffocation and leave Sheila on the beach concept though.)

 

[ajaylee]

I think HM is paying TS's legal bills - she just can't be open about it.

The judge/trustee want to see an itemized billing. I wonder what the reaction would have been if he had demanded an itemized billing from Elkin and Flava? They're the ones who came up with the $150K figure.

SouthAussie, I agree, the body language isn't all lovey-dovey. That said, they're young and they barely knew each other before all this took place. It would have been surprising if the relationship had endured, and all couples do have their differences. I thought from the vines that HM's real interest was VonMar. TS has given up hiding from the cameras, but I notice she learned very quickly how to play to the media.

However...there was the second week of the trial and TS's crying. I can't help but wonder if his mother had a talk with him and told him things he really didn't want to hear. HM has out-witted him - she has $$. He'd probably struggle to find the $ to fly back to the US right now if he were set free. His only hope is to try to keep in her good graces.

 

[ajaylee]

:yes: we can always go back to our first theory ... that Heather did the murder, Tommy did the clean up. I have never liked that fruit bowl theory anyway. And I have never liked that Tommy smashed Sheila in the face - not impossible, but more likely a Heather-thing imo.

And I would love to know if they had identical fruit bowls in their rooms - and would the hotel even know what fruit bowl was in what room? ... maybe ... maybe not.

(I definitely can believe the suffocation and leave Sheila on the beach concept though.)

I think that was probably the original plan - knock a sleeping SWM, suffocate her and drop her in the water at the beach, fabricate a heart-broken story afterwards about mom always liking late-night solo walks and being really depressed lately....

In some of the testimony, I read that HM texted TS and let him into the room, but they woke SWM up when they were hugging and whispering. I think that's where the plan went awry.

 

[SouthAussie]

Personally, I think that he would be better off if he retracted his story, blamed her for the murder, said he was called down to do the clean up, did his time in jail, then took himself and his baby back to the US. He’d be deported anyway, as a convicted criminal.

I just don’t think he has the confidence to carry it off. HM is the one with all the confidence, bravado, and manipulative tendencies.

 

[ajaylee]

There's one other factor that makes this case somewhat different from Soenardi's other cases.

He didn't get involved until after the prosecution had filed charges. I think that's part of what worked in Ponder's favor: the actual charges against him and his girlfriend were very small compared to their crimes. I think if Soenardi had been involved earlier, the charges would have been much lighter. Now it's all on the judges.

I really wonder how the billing will be handled. I think Judge Cohen opened his mouth way too quickly, but there's no going back now. If Soenardi refuses to submit an itemized interim bill (because perhaps that's not the way things work in Indonesia), what are Cohen and Mackoff going to do? They dug themselves this hole and they really have no choice but to keep giving HM what she wants.