GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #5

[Orange Tabby]

Not sure how a judge can just randomly say that she has no jurisdiction over a child born out of the country when that child cannot be given dual citizenship and is considered a citizen of the US only. Pretty sure that she wouldn't just randomly say that. So what gives Indonesia jurisdiction over Stella?

SBM

Some years ago a national panel of legal experts wrote a model law for the states concerning child custody which most of the states enacted. Later, that panel wrote a revision to the law, which Illinois and 48 other states enacted. It is codified in Illinois statute. Details were posted by al66pine (including parts of the Illinois law) and there were links. You can find these posts a few pages up-thread. The underlying document to the law itself is very long and I read only tiny bits of it.

But the short answer to your question is this: Illinois law gives Indonesia jurisdiction.

That's why I believe the appeals court will uphold Judge Sullivan.

 

[SouthAussie]

SBM

Some years ago a national panel of legal experts wrote a model law for the states concerning child custody which most of the states enacted. Later, that panel wrote a revision to the law, which Illinois and 48 other states enacted. It is codified in Illinois statute. Details were posted by al66pine (including parts of the Illinois law) and there were links. You can find these posts a few pages up-thread. The underlying document to the law itself is very long and I read only tiny bits of it.

But the short answer to your question is this: Illinois law gives Indonesia jurisdiction.

That's why I believe the appeals court will uphold Judge Sullivan.

Seriously, it is not up to the courts. They have zero jurisdiction in Bali or anywhere outside of their own country.

It is up to the US politicians to get involved, if they can be convinced to do so.

Even if a court did give Kia custody, who is going to enforce that in Indonesia? They have no obligation to honour any US ruling. They do not participate in international conventions about child custody ... or anything else.

.

 

[Orange Tabby]

So now they will give Stella a permanent resident visa, and she will be able to stay there indefinitely, is my guess. She will fall under the laws of their land.

Do you know for a fact that this is the only way that things could proceed?

I think Stella will be booted out of Indonesia with Heather after the latter is released from Kerobokan.

 

[SouthAussie]

Do you know for a fact that this is the only way that things could proceed?

Yes, Stella needs a visa to stay there, no matter her age. It would be easy for her to get one if the Aussie guardian(s) is a permanent resident. Or if an Indonesian politician grants permission for one, due to the circumstances of Stella's parents being in jail there.

 

[Orange Tabby]

Yes, Stella needs a visa to stay there, no matter her age. It would be easy for her to get one if the Aussie guardian(s) is a permanent resident. Or if an Indonesian politician grants permission for one, due to the circumstances of Stella's parents being in jail there.

But must it be a permanent resident visa? Why not a rolling tourist visa?

 

[SouthAussie]

But must it be a permanent resident visa? Why not a rolling tourist visa?

A rolling tourist visa does not roll in Indonesia. My brother has lived there for many years. He has to leave every few months for a while, and then re-enter the country to have his visa renewed. He cannot even get a permanent resident visa as he is retired, and is not married to an Indonesian.

A permanent resident visa does not mean that Stella is stuck there forever. She can still travel freely (if her mother would let her!) to the US and live in the US. It just means she can stay in Bali for as long as required.

No matter what type of visa Stella has, and she must have one, she is still bound to the laws of Bali while she is there.

 

[Orange Tabby]

Thanks, SouthAussie. That's helpful. Are you saying that you believe the only possibility here is that Stella must be granted a permanent residency visa?

Can someone with a permanent residency visa ever be deported?

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks, SouthAussie. That's helpful. Are you saying that you believe the only possibility here is that Stella must be granted a permanent residency visa?

Can someone with a permanent residency visa ever be deported?

Yes, my belief is that is the kind of visa that Stella will be required to hold ... for a further 8 year stay in the country. She may even have one now, as she has already been there for 2 years, but Kia's lawyer is not mentioning it or does not know. Their visa options are limited, as are most/all countries visa options.

Yes, I think a permanent resident can be deported, if they commit a grievous crime and have their residency revoked, but I do not believe that will happen in Stella's case. She will revert to the custody of her mother once her mother is released, perhaps simultaneously, and then can accompany her deported mother back to the US ... if the trust fund pays for Stella's flight.

 

[Orange Tabby]

Seriously, it is not up to the courts. They have zero jurisdiction in Bali or anywhere outside of their own country.

It is up to the US politicians to get involved, if they can be convinced to do so.

Even if a court did give Kia custody, who is going to enforce that in Indonesia? They have no obligation to honour any US ruling. They do not participate in international conventions about child custody ... or anything else.

.

My post was only intended to answer Kamille's question in post #1998, "So what gives Indonesia jurisdiction over Stella?"

My reply was, Illinois law.

No Illinois court will rule in favor of Kia Walker, so compliance (or noncompliance) won't be an issue.

Poor Stella.

 

[Orange Tabby]

... if the trust fund pays for Stella's flight.

Very witty!

 

[SouthAussie]

Quite honestly, I think Kia may be stuck in a Catch 22 position. No politicians can help her because she doesn't have custody, and the courts can't help her with custody because their jurisdiction does not extend to Indonesia.
Plus Stella is about to get out of the hellhole into (presumably) a pleasant family environment where she will be well-cared for, so no embarrassment will be there for the US govt.

Kia should have made a big public hue and cry about a poor little baby stuck in the drug-ridden hellhole called Kerobokan with her murderous mother, and got the nation on her side. Then maybe the politicians would have stepped in to do their job and protect a small defenceless innocent US citizen.

I fear that now it is too late. Two years too late.

 

[Orange Tabby]

Quite honestly, I think Kia may be stuck in a Catch 22 position. No politicians can help her because she doesn't have custody, and the courts can't help her with custody because their jurisdiction does not extend to Indonesia.
Plus Stella is about to get out of the hellhole into (presumably) a pleasant family environment where she will be well-cared for, so no embarrassment will be there for the US govt.

Kia should have made a big public hue and cry about a poor little baby stuck in the drug-ridden hellhole called Kerobokan with her murderous mother, and got the nation on her side. Then maybe the politicians would have stepped in to do their job and protect a small defenceless innocent US citizen.

I fear that now it is too late. Two years too late.

I agree completely. What kind of a grandmother sits on her *advertiser censored* for two years while a baby is living in a prison?

 

[FigTree]

What type of Visa would Stella be on?
Would Stella have some sort of sponsorship attached to her visa so that she can stay in Indonesia?

 

[Kamille]

In other news, the Australian woman, Sara Connor, was convicted and sentenced to 4 years in Kerobokan for the death of a Bali police officer on Kuta Beach. Her British boyfriend, David Taylor, was sentenced to 6 years.

So there are lots of news articles about the horrid conditions at Kerobokan circulating right now. Apparently they haven't been following HM's and the other female inmates who are on social media's party. It's obvious that things are not nearly as bad as the media would lead us to believe. Although I do agree it's probably a lot worse on the men's side since there are only about 140 women and over a thousand men. But all accounts suggest money talks. You just don't need a lot of USD over there.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pend-four-years-inside-Corby-Bali-prison.html

This article indicates that she is in the same cell as HM.

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/s...r/news-story/c29bb5600f52842ab93481efa58f52f0

 

[SouthAussie]

I think Kerobokan is pretty bad. If you are not a druggie, and are not cashed up, and are not hard-core, it can be even worse. Some people are just more adaptable than others. Heather is adaptable, hard-core, and has a little money (which equates to a lot of money over there).

Schapelle was softer and less adaptable, a hairdresser used to helping make people look pretty and feel good - and started cracking up inside Kerobokan.

Michelle Leslie (an Aussie model who was found with 2 ecstacy tablets at a Bali dance party) claimed she was addicted to prescription drugs - they have different laws for user-addicts - to get herself out of a lengthy term in Kerobokan. Then she 'turned Islamic' while incarcerated, to aid her cause is the common belief, as she soon lost the Islamic clothing when she got herself out of Kerobokan and back to Australia.

I think Sara Connor is going to struggle in there. She is an easy going woman from Byron Bay (very hippie-peace-love-organic-meditation type of area) and will miss her children and country terribly. It is very unfortunate that she got herself tangled up with the boyfriend she was with, and felt the need to go to his 'defense'.

 

[SouthAussie]

I just said to someone off-thread, and I will say it here, too.

I am not too concerned about Stella now. The Bali people are typically gentle and kind, very loving to their children, live a clean life. I feel that Stella will be well cared for once she is out of Kerobokan.

Even her visits to Kerobokan (for as long as they last) will be in an outside courtyard, sharing fruit and laughs, playing with other child visitors ... it won't be too bad. She won't be exposed any more to the 'inside' of the prison, where the really horrible crap happens. The visits will be better than prison visits in our Western-type prisons.

Stella's problems will surface when she has to go back to the custody of her whacky murderous mother.

 

[Kamille]

I just said to someone off-thread, and I will say it here, too.

I am not too concerned about Stella now. The Bali people are typically gentle and kind, very loving to their children, live a clean life. I feel that Stella will be well cared for once she is out of Kerobokan.

Even her visits to Kerobokan (for as long as they last) will be in an outside courtyard, sharing fruit and laughs, playing with other child visitors ... it won't be too bad. She won't be exposed any more to the 'inside' of the prison, where the really horrible crap happens. The visits will be better than prison visits in our Western-type prisons.

Stella's problems will surface when she has to go back to the custody of her whacky murderous mother.

I hope so. Looks like it will be Oshar, as we expected.

Australian Balinese woman to adopt American killer Heather Mack’s baby

AN Australian woman will today become the mother of the two-year-old baby of a notorious American killer who murdered her mother and stuffed her body into a suitcase in Bali.

Heather Mack, who committed the heinous crime with her boyfriend Tommy Schaefer, will hand over her baby daughter Stella to Australian-Balinese woman Oshar Putu Melody Suartama.

[...]

Ms Suartama would not comment to News Corp Australia ahead of today’s handover. This is the first time such an agreement has been made.

Meanwhile, Schaefer told News Corp Australia he was not happy about Stella going to the Australian family in Bali.

http://www.ntnews.com.au/lifestyle/...y/news-story/30b6a919feb9be9ecf5a671b1c71afca

BBM

Interesting...Indonesia is willing to set a precedent regarding this situation. I guess it helps when your father is a prominent legislator over there.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Oshar Putu Melody Suartama, pictured at a court appearance of Heather Mack, will adopt Mack’s two-year-old baby Stella when she is forced to leave Kerobokan Jail. Picture: Lukman S. Bintoro

Oshar Putu Melody Suartama with Tommy Schaefer at his murder trial. Picture: Lukman S. Bintoro

http://www.ntnews.com.au/lifestyle/...y/news-story/30b6a919feb9be9ecf5a671b1c71afca

 

[Kamille]

I guess this also confirms who has been supporting HM financially and with supplies over there...

At the time, Mack was pregnant and Ms Suartama, who was at the police station to help foreigners with translations, saw her sleeping on the floor.

Yulius Benyamin Seran, the lawyer for Mack and Stella, told News Corp Australia Ms Suartama started bringing Mack milk and supplies. Ms Suartama also supported Mack throughout her trial in the Denpasar District Court.

http://www.ntnews.com.au/lifestyle/...y/news-story/30b6a919feb9be9ecf5a671b1c71afca

MOO

 

[Weezer Fan]

This says "adopted". I am going to assume that this does not mean what it means in the US. I couldn't access the story. Will Stella have to be reunited with her murderous mother in10 years?

Maybe this will work out for Stella. If HM is released from Indonesia prison, but has to return to the US, face conspiracy charges, and goes to prison, Stella may not have to deal with her any longer.


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