Belize - Francesca Matus, 52, & Drew De Voursney, 36, murdered, Corozal, 25 Apr 2017

[Kamille]

O/Tish, bet this resort will have excellent security!, imo, speculation.
https://www.popsugar.com/home/Leonardo-DiCaprio-Announces-Eco-Resort-Belize-37224326

He's going to need it after watching that "gang" video that was posted earlier. Apparently the waters off the coast of Belize are ripe with drug smuggling boats from South American drug runners.

The island is called Blackadore Caye for anyone interested in looking up his plans for it and some negative reactions to his proposal and development.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Private islands are the best way to keep the riff-raff out, and that includes you and me!


Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

Not necessarily. Apparently all beaches are considered public up to 66 feet past high tide. Even the beaches around Leo's "private" island. And there are a lot of tour and fishing boats out there.

This would include the beach in front of FM's property as well.

“Sixty-six feet of all coastal waters are all considered Queen’s land because it belongs to the public," said one concerned resident during a discussion of the project's recently-completed 430 page Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA). "You may own land, but from high tide, sixty-six feet on to land is public access. And not only are you blocking that, but you are encroaching on the marine reserve and developing in that water."

http://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/arts-c...rns-raised-over-leonardo-dicaprios-eco-resort

 

[otto]

Regarding whether the tenant lived in Francesca's home, or in another property she may own, it looks like he lived in her house with her:

"Local reports identify the man as a tenant living on Matus’s seaside property."

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...toronto-woman-and-her-american-boyfriend.html

 

[otto]

"On Sunday, police found Matus's SUV, a white Isuzu Rodeo, abandoned in a field about six kilometres outside of town.
...

According to family, Matus was originally from Sault Ste. Marie, Ont., and lived in Markham before moving recently to Keswick, Ont., north of Toronto. She worked as a property manager and had two adult sons.

Described as a "snowbird," Matus spent winters in Belize and owned a beach property in Corozal. "She absolutely loved it," Pucci said."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...-ontario-woman-was-very-good-friend-1.4103240

 

[PaxBelize]

Porous borders?

Expats get away with murder in Belize because the border is porous, and falsely accused people have incentive to use the porous borders because being subjected to tunnel vision style police investigation of murder charges is a bit over the top for most friends of murder victims?

However, who is claiming ownership of Francesca's property? It belongs to her sons, and they need to go there and stake claim by living in the house ... just being there is enough.

Wasn't the head of McAfee anti-virus software in Belize when he murdered his neighbour? He definitely appreciated the porous borders. Didn't he go to Guatemala before fleeing to the USA?

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-what-really-happened-in-belize-2016-5

I don't think expats get away with murder in Belize because the border is porous. Murderers get away with murders in Belize because of a poorly funded, trained and resourced police service. As for property, that will be in the hands of the executors of her estate. If she left it to her sons or they are the direct next of kin, then there will be no problem. McAfee was only a person of interest as he lived next door to the victim and had some prior disputes. He was never a suspect. He was, however, a serious attention seeker and turned his fantasy of being targeted by the Belize government into a huge fairy tale that he was able to live out by pretending he was somehow being hunted by the police and government. It is perfectly rational for the police to have considered him a person of interest and wanted to speak to him. I don't think anyone locally believes he actually killed his neighbour.

 

[dotr]

I don't think expats get away with murder in Belize because the border is porous. Murderers get away with murders in Belize because of a poorly funded, trained and resourced police service. As for property, that will be in the hands of the executors of her estate. If she left it to her sons or they are the direct next of kin, then there will be no problem. McAfee was only a person of interest as he lived next door to the victim and had some prior disputes. He was never a suspect. He was, however, a serious attention seeker and turned his fantasy of being targeted by the Belize government into a huge fairy tale that he was able to live out by pretending he was somehow being hunted by the police and government. It is perfectly rational for the police to have considered him a person of interest and wanted to speak to him. I don't think anyone locally believes he actually killed his neighbour.

rbbm o/t but somewhat related.
Warning, humour with some salty language, but this DL episode supports your assertion about JM, fwiw.imo, speculation.

Published on Nov 5, 2013

From Silicon Valley multi-millionaire to international playboy and Caribbean murder suspect, Dateline gets inside the eccentric world of John McAfee.

[video=youtube;zIXc_GqIsE0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIXc_GqIsE0[/video]

 

[otto]

I don't think expats get away with murder in Belize because the border is porous. Murderers get away with murders in Belize because of a poorly funded, trained and resourced police service. As for property, that will be in the hands of the executors of her estate. If she left it to her sons or they are the direct next of kin, then there will be no problem. McAfee was only a person of interest as he lived next door to the victim and had some prior disputes. He was never a suspect. He was, however, a serious attention seeker and turned his fantasy of being targeted by the Belize government into a huge fairy tale that he was able to live out by pretending he was somehow being hunted by the police and government. It is perfectly rational for the police to have considered him a person of interest and wanted to speak to him. I don't think anyone locally believes he actually killed his neighbour.

It seems like police look at neighbours, and they don't look any further. With the murdered missionary, his neighbours were suspects, when McAfee's neighbour was murdered, he was the only suspect, and with Francesca's murder, again it is the person who lives closest. In other countries, the neighbour is never considered to be the first suspect.

 

[PaxBelize]

It seems like police look at neighbours, and they don't look any further. With the murdered missionary, his neighbours were suspects, when McAfee's neighbour was murdered, he was the only suspect, and with Francesca's murder, again it is the person who lives closest. In other countries, the neighbour is never considered to be the first suspect.

In all fairness, I believe cops everywhere look at people close to the victim, whether geographically or relationship wise, particularly if there is a history of some sort of dispute. Just because I say John McAfee isn't considered the murderer, that doesn't mean that people don't think he might have had something to do with it, or know who did it. I've had neighbors murdered in other countries and have been interviewed to gather information. All they wanted to do was interview McAfee. On another note, here is an article that some of you might find interesting. https://insideview.blog/2017/05/07/heart-of-darkness/

 

[otto]

In all fairness, I believe cops everywhere look at people close to the victim, whether geographically or relationship wise, particularly if there is a history of some sort of dispute. Just because I say John McAfee isn't considered the murderer, that doesn't mean that people don't think he might have had something to do with it, or know who did it. I've had neighbors murdered in other countries and have been interviewed to gather information. All they wanted to do was interview McAfee. On another note, here is an article that some of you might find interesting. https://insideview.blog/2017/05/07/heart-of-darkness/

This again suggests that there was some sort of land dispute at the root of the murders, but we have read nothing to support anything about a land dispute. If Drew was the target, he would have been murdered after Francesca left Belize. Instead, she was murdered as she was about to leave, leading me to believe that she was the target.

She has owned her home for the last 3-4 years, so where is the land dispute? We know that she was threatened, but we don't know by whom. Did the suspect (tenant) believe that he owned part of her property? If so, how does murdering her solve the problem? In fact, her murder makes it more difficult to resolve because she is the only person who can verify whether he provided money to her for her property purchase.

 

[PaxBelize]

Nothing I said suggests there was a land dispute. I have no idea if there was any dispute at all. I certainly wouldn't base my opinions on anything stated in the media, local or international. We don't know she was threatened. We only know that some news outlets have said that some police sources have said that. He's clearly a person of interest because they think he knows something. I can only guess, based on experience in Belize, that the police feel he hasn't been entirely cooperative or they believe he knows something. It's just as possible he knows nothing, but as there really are no forensics possible, prosecutions in Belize only happen with either confessions or witnesses. Both tend to be unreliable in the end and so, very few convictions happen. I have no idea what happened. I don't think it was a robbery gone wrong or a hit as manual strangulation is not the way those things happen in Belize, for the most part. It's likely to always be a mystery.

 

[dotr]

In all fairness, I believe cops everywhere look at people close to the victim, whether geographically or relationship wise, particularly if there is a history of some sort of dispute. Just because I say John McAfee isn't considered the murderer, that doesn't mean that people don't think he might have had something to do with it, or know who did it. I've had neighbors murdered in other countries and have been interviewed to gather information. All they wanted to do was interview McAfee. On another note, here is an article that some of you might find interesting. https://insideview.blog/2017/05/07/heart-of-darkness/

Very interesting, finger -on- the- pulse-of article, thanks for posting it!

 

[otto]

Nothing I said suggests there was a land dispute. I have no idea if there was any dispute at all. I certainly wouldn't base my opinions on anything stated in the media, local or international. We don't know she was threatened. We only know that some news outlets have said that some police sources have said that. He's clearly a person of interest because they think he knows something. I can only guess, based on experience in Belize, that the police feel he hasn't been entirely cooperative or they believe he knows something. It's just as possible he knows nothing, but as there really are no forensics possible, prosecutions in Belize only happen with either confessions or witnesses. Both tend to be unreliable in the end and so, very few convictions happen. I have no idea what happened. I don't think it was a robbery gone wrong or a hit as manual strangulation is not the way those things happen in Belize, for the most part. It's likely to always be a mystery.

The linked article suggests land dispute ... and that an expat is responsible.

 

[PaxBelize]

The linked article suggests land dispute.

I'm not sure it suggests that land disputes were the cause of this issue (and I should point out that the writer has had his fair share of them himself over the years), but it points out that they are common here. Many foreigners come to Belize and scam people in land and development deals and they get away with it on a regular basis. https://www.sanpedrosun.com/busines...13/byc-homeowners-frustrated-with-management/

Look up Sanctuary Bay if you really want to see how foreign companies cause havoc here in developments.

 

[otto]

I'm not sure it suggests that land disputes were the cause of this issue (and I should point out that the writer has had his fair share of them himself over the years), but it points out that they are common here. Many foreigners come to Belize and scam people in land and development deals and they get away with it on a regular basis. https://www.sanpedrosun.com/busines...13/byc-homeowners-frustrated-with-management/

Look up Sanctuary Bay if you really want to see how foreign companies cause havoc here in developments.

I have no doubt that shared ownership of property has problems - that's true all over the world.

That doesn't seem to be related to the murders of Francesca and Drew.

 

[Hazel]

It was the foul stench — an insistent and unforgettable odor — that grabbed Demetrio Yam’s attention. A diminutive farmer with weather-beaten skin, Yam was toiling in his fields here in northern Belize Monday morning when he first picked up on the scent. Following his nose down a remote dirt road and then through a dense maze of sugar cane, he found a path to a clearing on his property. And that is where he discovered the bodies.

On Friday as Yam was leading a reporter from The Atlanta Journal-Constitution to where he found the bodies, a column of Belize police and FBI trucks drove by. Now staying in Corozal, the FBI agents declined to talk about their investigation.

A bright yellow strip of police caution tape still hung from one of the cane stalks on Yam’s property Friday, and a door lay flat on the ground nearby. Yam speculated investigators used it to carry away the remains, which were found in advanced states of decomposition.

Wielding a machete, Yam stepped amid the towering sugar cane stalks. Brittle leaves crunched underfoot. Voracious mosquitoes swarmed. It was hot and sticky in his field. A sharp cane leaf sliced Yam’s right wrist, drawing bright red blood. He reached the clearing and pointed to a dark stain on the ground where he saw the bodies.

“The path was not here. When they brought the bodies, they left this trail,” he said, speaking in Spanish through an interpreter. “I don’t really know exactly what happened.”

http://www.myajc.com/news/breaking-...nta-marine-girlfriend/4ZXywxuaoyU5TKq1uqzx6I/

 

[Hazel]

I'm guessing this is the "disability" we have read about:

Drew’s experience in Iraq, his mother said, left him with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Depressed and irritable, he suffered from sleeplessness. Yet, Drew headed back toward danger, this time as a military contractor teaching Marines how to use their computer equipment in Afghanistan. He later attended a school in Texas where he learned to work on oil rigs. Then he worked at a solar company in California. A welding school in Missouri came next. He went to a scuba diving school in Florida after that. Gold mining in Belize followed.

“He couldn’t quite land,” his mother said. “He just couldn’t land.”

Four years ago, Drew bought five acres in Belize with a friend, seeing it as a possible site for a scuba diving business. He started dating Francesca a few months ago and they seemed happy.

Drew’s business plans in Belize weren’t working out as he had envisioned, his mother said, so he was planning to return to Georgia and attend a trade school with his brother, David, in Conyers, where they would learn how to operate heavy equipment.

http://www.myajc.com/news/breaking-...nta-marine-girlfriend/4ZXywxuaoyU5TKq1uqzx6I/

 

[Snoopster]

Thank you for the thought-provoking post. You always have such great ideas. Very psychologically detailed.

Thank you samsmom. That is incredibly kind of you.

I think we all know that people are pretty much the same everywhere. The key difference is circumstance. In the end people want hope, respect (either external or self-respect) and love. When none, or few, of those factors exist, desperation sets in. It's human nature.

I have to say that I get a bit ticked when fellow Canadians or Americans say, "why would anyone go to such a horrible dangerous country?? Why don't people stay in their supposedly safe country and never go anywhere else?" What privileged hooey.
Someone on this thread said something to the effect of "the only time we hear about Belize is when an expat is killed." And I want to ask back, "what news would there be in saying that everything was fine this week in Belize"? Nothing good or non-shocking from a North American's perspective would be newsworthy in the US or Canadian media. So of course we wouldn't hear about anything from Belize unless a North American was involved.

Having said that, it's clear that crime is rampant in Belize, for many of the reasons I stated earlier, and it seems to be getting worse. I did take heart when I looked at the comments under the Belize news media articles and the posters were 100% focused on how devastated they were that expats were missing; that expats were killed. They were devastated. I contrast those comments to news articles in the US and Canada (and other western nations) were the comments would have been mean-spirited tirades about politics, with no caring about the victims.

Stepping down from my soapbox now. My apologies if I've offended anyone.

 

[Hazel]

Bill remembers urging his friend that evening to take care of a wound on his head so it wouldn’t get infected. Drew got scraped up diving into the sea after a volleyball. His head was oozing.

Francesca stepped out of the bar at one point that evening and sat on the sea wall, talking on her cell phone. That struck Bill as odd but not unusual because guests routinely headed out there to escape the noise from the bar. Bill said he didn’t see anyone else with Francesca and Drew that evening.

Bill sat in his usual spot at the bar with his wife, Belinda, Friday, wondering how the attackers overcame Drew, given his size. He speculated he was hit over the head or drugged.

RSBM
More: http://www.myajc.com/news/breaking-...nta-marine-girlfriend/4ZXywxuaoyU5TKq1uqzx6I/

 

[PaxBelize]

There are a few things that people may not be aware of. First of all, there is a thriving middle class in Belize. There are many educated and professional Belizeans. It's not all poverty and gangs. Belize City is a relatively typical Central American city with many challenges. It's been infected with a gang problem, which originated when Belizean criminals were sent back to Belize and brought the Bloods and Crips with them combined with easy(ish) money from the drug trade. The USA war on drugs is considered by many in Belize to have been the triggering point for change for the worse in Belize. Once they sent in their planes to poison the fields of weed and allowed it (some would say encouraged) to become part of the cocaine (and human) trafficking route through Central America things started going downhill.

Crime has definitely gotten worse and that's tragic, mainly for Belizeans, who are the most frequent victims of crime. Belizean people are saddened deeply about this murder. Not only because they really do care, but because it paints such a warped picture of Belize. I had some friends here from the USA last week. They loved it. They can't wait to come back.

I suppose that the sort of travelers who will read a tragic story about a murder 'in paradise' and use it as a reason not to travel there are not the sort of travelers who would like Belize much anyway. The stories of mass shootings in the USA, which are daily, scare me too.

 

[Hazel]

Obituary for Francesca

http://www.marshallfuneralhome.com/book-of-memories/2915615/Matus-Francesca/obituary.php

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I had been wondering if Francesca was using her husband's (or ex-husband's) last name because it sounds Portuguese not Italian.

Found her birth last name in this Obituary for Francesca (a.k.a. Franca).

A memorial service will be held on Thursday, May 11, 2017 :candle:

https://www.afterlife.co/ca/obituary-richmond-hill-francesca-matus-2139617