Belize - Francesca Matus, 52, & Drew De Voursney, 36, murdered, Corozal, 25 Apr 2017

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Are you suggesting this crime has something to do with D & F witnessing a crime on Rio Hondo?

Do you think the 2 sets of double murders are related to each other?

Do you know exactly how Drew hurt his head diving?

Maybe they saw a crime or something someone didn't want known. Not sure if murders are related but too many coincidences.

Drew hurt his his head at volleyball diving into water to get ball. Lots of people saw him. Gringos played volleyball by the sea and people would watch. Drew played. They don't play anymore.
 
A great deal of information within this link, hard to choose which part to highlight, but this bit makes it easier to understand why potential witnesses to a crime might be publicly silenced as an example and to threaten the community into silence imo, speculation.
Page 1 of 20
http://archive.thedialogue.org/PublicationFiles/IAD9014_Belize_Lopez_Paper_FINAL.pdf
E. says that people rarely report these cases because criminals have long memories and do not hesitate to seek reprisals.

Professor Gurule noted that threats and intimidation against victims and witnesses do long-term damage. As he explained:“What ends up happening, a witness is hurt, or a victim is killed in a particular case, that has a ripple effect with respect to other witnesses, other victims in other cases. They are going to say, ‘look what happened to that person over there; tha tcould happen to me, so I’m not going to testify’.”

Sometimes, the number of appeals that a defendant can introduce, or the possibility of being released on bail, return certain high-profile criminals to the streets. In the case of Suzenne Martinez, the suspect had been released on bail in a rape case in Belmopan.

One police officer in Cayo described the appeal proces s frustrating because it gives serious criminals the opportunity of release on bail. Others claim that weak investigations, caused by a lack of forensic resources, are to blame for acquittals or lenient treatment of criminals in courts.
 
Senior Superintendent Dennis Arnold seems to have his hands full down in Belize. So far this year he seems to have headed investigations in to a missing 13 year old girl abducted by her pedophile father, a mentally challenged thief run down and killed by a bus, two double murders, and execution style murder of a young man, and a recent armed robbery of a business man of over $50k in cash. Yes Arnold's name is in the news quite frequently but never in relation to solving a crime or helping prosecute one. I am beginning to believe that there really is no law in Belize and that criminals do what they want knowing that law enforcement are a bunch of under equipped, dimwitted stooges.

Unfortunately I've given up on any resolution to this case, or any of the cases Dennis Arnold is heading up for that matter.
 
Locals know how to build schools. $10,000 wouldn't even come close to beginning the process of getting a school built here, much less laying a single stone. It's a great programme for those places where it works. The costs of building a school are not just concrete either. Ongoing costs are a huge burden. Most government run schools here are built and managed by churches. This is St. John's in Belize City. It's one of the better schools. https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...39a/t/5661d1cbe4b0746e9ead5c94/1449251278784/

Unfortunately, Belize has been overrun by USA evangelical groups and they don't tolerate other groups pushing into their fundraising exploits. That doesn't mean great things don't happen and that the community isn't active. This group, for example, are just finishing up the final stages of building the first shelter for women and children on Ambergris Caye. https://www.facebook.com/raisemeupbelize/ There are many other excellent programmes like this across the country. But I have to stress that many people simply don't understand how tiny this country actually is.

If you feel you'd like to help Belize, that's a good group to donate to.

Thank you Pax. You've highlighted many great points including the point I bolded.
Belize has the population of a small city in the US. (Think Lincoln NE, Toledo OH, Corpus Christie TX, etc.)
They have to keep an entire country running on their budget.

When we took our children there for a vacation (rather than going to Disney World),we had to remind them that our small city had more people than their entire country. If our city were an "island" in the world how would we provide health care, tourism support, infrastructure, education, environmental support, etc., etc. It would be difficult, if not impossible.

It sounds like Belize has some problems relating to crime and corruption, but that is not in the least surprising.
 
Now we have to see if justice will truly be served. It's a horrible murder that has shaken the country.
 
Thank you Pax. You've highlighted many great points including the point I bolded.
Belize has the population of a small city in the US. (Think Lincoln NE, Toledo OH, Corpus Christie TX, etc.)
They have to keep an entire country running on their budget.

When we took our children there for a vacation (rather than going to Disney World),we had to remind them that our small city had more people than their entire country. If our city were an "island" in the world how would we provide health care, tourism support, infrastructure, education, environmental support, etc., etc. It would be difficult, if not impossible.

It sounds like Belize has some problems relating to crime and corruption, but that is not in the least surprising.

To be honest, it does remarkably well under the circumstances but it is ripe for exploitation and much of that comes from abroad - whether the women and children for sex trafficking, the poverty stricken young men for drug trafficking, the beautiful land for development and ponzi schemes, the politicians for international crime etc etc.

The country is young and that gives us all hope. The USA probably was worse when it was under 50 years old too.
 
And I can see why. The mother has a ******** page to pay for her surgeries!

Yeah I found that. Never did say or even hint at what kind of surgeries, tho.

There's a lot of sadness and outrage being voiced by Belize locals on this case, many reports that for several years that many of them sensed something was amiss in the family, many of them (including former teachers) went to authorities to report things...but sadly nothing was ever investigated or done. Faye Lin Cannon was reportedly a very bright "straight A" student according to former teachers, and locals who knew her state she was in no way mentally challenged, as apparently alleged by her adoptive Mom. She'd been removed from school, so were a couple of her other siblings. It seems for a long time locals tried to get authorities to investigate suspicions of abuse etc...but nothing ever done. So sad. There should be a thread here for poor Faye Lin Cannon? https://www.sanpedrosun.com/crime-and-violence/2017/07/07/islanders-demand-justice-faye-lin-cannon/
 
To PaxBelize who presumes that the early days of the USA as a nation were "probably worse" than Belize - The founding fathers of the USA were educated men, physicians, lawyers, merchants, landowners. It was a civil society and even then it was a hundred years beyond what Belize is today.
 
We get a lot of North Americans coming to Belize and committing terrible crimes. This is just the most recent. http://www.7newsbelize.com/sstory.php?nid=41030

I posted this earlier, but I believe the post I quoted disappeared, so just so you know, I created a thread for the young girl that died under suspicious circumstances in San Pedro (Faye Lin Cannon).

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?342758-Belize-Faye-Lin-Cannon-13-deceased-American-parents-detained
 
We get a lot of North Americans coming to Belize and committing terrible crimes. This is just the most recent. http://www.7newsbelize.com/sstory.php?nid=41030

It's misleading to say North Americans come to Belize to commit crimes and then using this story as an example, as if they deliberately went there to do this. They moved to Belize 5 years ago. They were permitted to reside and own a business there. If there was any history that the couple were criminals who might have been convicted of any other felony crimes in the US, they should not have been permitted to enter the country, stay and live in the country, purchase a condominium property and a run a business there. That's what an immigration dept is supposed to be dealing with. So that's one more level of government that's not working properly I suppose.

It is also my belief that had they not relocated to Belize, the same alleged crime would likely have been committed, by them, in Hawaii. And FWIW, if they are responsible for their child's death, they were able to get away with this because no one in Belize was paying attention to them or the way they were treating at least one of their children. That may not have happened in Hawaii. Especially if the abuse was happening during the school year. So you could flip it and say that this crime happened because they moved to Belize.

RIP Faye Lin. :rose:

MOO
 
To PaxBelize who presumes that the early days of the USA as a nation were "probably worse" than Belize - The founding fathers of the USA were educated men, physicians, lawyers, merchants, landowners. It was a civil society and even then it was a hundred years beyond what Belize is today.
I'm not sure what you meant by this. When the USA was a young country, they were still lynching people and women were chattel. If you look into Belize's history, you'll see that we have amazing founders such as the Hon. George Price. It takes a long time for countries to find their feet. It was not a personal attack upon you, but simply an observation that all countries, including the USA, face struggles and injustice as they grow.
 
It's misleading to say North Americans come to Belize to commit crimes and then using this story as an example, as if they deliberately went there to do this. They moved to Belize 5 years ago. They were permitted to reside and own a business there. If there was any history that the couple were criminals who might have been convicted of any other felony crimes in the US, they should not have been permitted to enter the country, stay and live in the country, purchase a condominium property and a run a business there. That's what an immigration dept is supposed to be dealing with. So that's one more level of government that's not working properly I suppose.

It is also my belief that had they not relocated to Belize, the same alleged crime would likely have been committed, by them, in Hawaii. And FWIW, if they are responsible for their child's death, they were able to get away with this because no one in Belize was paying attention to them or the way they were treating at least one of their children. That may not have happened in Hawaii. Especially if the abuse was happening during the school year. So you could flip it and say that this crime happened because they moved to Belize.

RIP Faye Lin. :rose:

MOO
It's not misleading in the slightest. There is a sad and well documented history of North Americans committing crimes in Belize. Not that long ago a Canadian absconded after killing a young man on Ambergris Caye. Numerous child molesters have moved to Belize, often under the guise of being pastors. There are too many white collar crimes that have been committed by North Americans in Belize to even begin to count and all of this continues on a daily basis. Belize is a hub for sex tourism from North America. People believe they can get away with murder in Belize because, for the most part, they can. Go to Ambergris Caye and you'll find many North Americans there who are there for nefarious purposes.
 
http://amandala.com.bz/news/sex-predators-prey-belizes-children-relatives-tip-report/
[h=1]US sex predators prey upon Belize’s children with help of their relatives, says US TIP report[/h]
— 02 July 2016 — by Adele Ramos



BELIZE CITY, Thurs. June 30, 2016–The US State Department released its 2016 Trafficking in Persons (TIP) report on Wednesday, June 29, on 188 countries and territories—and Belize was ranked for the second consecutive year on tier 3, the bottommost tier. The report points to child sex tourism, facilitated by Belizean relatives, as well as cross-border trafficking for prostitution between Belize and Guatemala and exploitation by even some law enforcement officers.
“The UN Special Rapporteur on Trafficking in Persons reported family members facilitate the sex trafficking of Belizean women and girls. In tourist regions, foreign child sex tourists, primarily from the United States, exploit child sex trafficking victims,” the report said.

It said that sex trafficking and forced labor of Belizean and foreign women and girls, primarily from Central America, occur in bars, nightclubs, brothels, and, in the case of domestic service, in private residences

Incidentally, on the same day that the US State Department released its report, Belize police announced a major bust of what they say was a human smuggling operation involving 18 persons, three of them minors, migrating from El Salvador through Belize, supposedly headed to the US via what Belizeans customarily call “the backdoor”: Mexico.
The US TIP report says that, “Belize is a source, transit, and destination country for men, women, and children subjected to sex trafficking and forced labor.”
 
It's not misleading in the slightest. There is a sad and well documented history of North Americans committing crimes in Belize. Not that long ago a Canadian absconded after killing a young man on Ambergris Caye. Numerous child molesters have moved to Belize, often under the guise of being pastors. There are too many white collar crimes that have been committed by North Americans in Belize to even begin to count and all of this continues on a daily basis. Belize is a hub for sex tourism from North America. People believe they can get away with murder in Belize because, for the most part, they can. Go to Ambergris Caye and you'll find many North Americans there who are there for nefarious purposes.

Well I don't want to go too off topic to discuss the number of people who come to North America from other parts of the world and commit crime as well, even after going through the immigration system, but there are probably cases of this on a hourly basis in both Canada and the US. It's unrealistic to suggest that Belize would be a crime free country if not for those bad North Americans coming there to commit crime. Every country has their fair share of crime from foreign immigrants and illegal aliens as well as the home grown kind, just like Belize. You can be sure, however, that felons are not permitted to enter or stay in a North American country if they try to go through proper channels to visit or immigrate. The illegal alien situation is a whole different story and the whole discussion is better suited to the Politivent forum.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?611-POLITIVENT

But as you've said, because they can get away with it, some felons are likely being drawn to Belize because they just don't seem to have a vetting system for these people. Are there any examples of people who have a criminal record in their country that would prevent them from being able to immigrate to another country, immigrating to and committing crime in Belize? If there are, that's solely a problem with the government of the country. Do people have to go through a proper immigration process to move to, live and work there? Are the North American people committing the crime you are referring to considered illegal aliens in your country? Do they just fly into the country on some kind of tourist visa and never leave?

I was happy to see the protests regarding Faye Lin's situation and what the locals had to say about their feelings regarding their government and the department that failed Faye Lin. It's not going to change unless the people push for a change and hold the government responsible. I just don't think that the Doehms deliberately moved to Belize to abuse their children so they don't fall under the category of people moving to Belize to commit crime. They were doing it, and getting away with it, in the US too apparently.

Belize looks like a beautiful country and the people deserve to have a government that's going to work towards making it safe and prosperous for everyone, not just the expats who all seem to congregate in a few exclusive areas. And on that topic, has there been any developments regarding the murder of the two expats who are the subject of this thread? Has the FBI sent any forensic results back to LE in Corozal? Is there any word on what is happening with Francesca's home? Is it for sale?

MOO
 

Sigh...it's so disheartening to read stuff like this. There are sick people everywhere who will exploit and traffic women and children wherever they can and they always prey on the poorest of the poor. Families are basically selling their children. And it happens all over the world in poor countries. There has to be much bigger penalties for this, for all involved. :cry:

MOO
 

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