Benjaman Kyle Statement from Owner of Websleuths.com

[Kimster]

I know. My post was not casting aspersions on Tricia, and I didn't mean to seem like I was insulting anyone. Sorry it was taken that way.

I didn't take it that way, Ducky, nor do I think Cubby did. I think she just wanted you to know that this information is solid.

:blowkiss:

Remember, Benjamin is still a member here and I believe he knows what is going on. He is more than welcome to state his case.

 

[Cubby]

What Kimster said.... TY Kimster!

 

[Wendy101]

Ever hear of those cases that have no leads, no evidence, no fingerprints...these facts don't mean the crime didn't happen...there is still a criminal behind the crime... a smart one.. that leaves no prints...

BK's prints will only match if he is a criminal in one the the cases the FBI is working on...

I sincerely believe BK is a criminal. The main reason I think that is WHY hide? Who cares if you are/were homeless? Who cares if you are by-sexual? gay? lesbian? Who cares of you stolen items at some point in your life .. robbed someone or store... ....those are NOT reasons "forget" who you are.

I think he did something very bad..he knows it... and chose to "forget" who he is...I think he was on the run from shelter to shelter hiding..that would be the reason people have "seen or recognised" him..but no one is a FRIEND.. he most likley never let anyone get close enough to him to "figure him out"..if they got close... he probably ran to the next town..

I really wonder if anyone said what his name is....

Is it not true that the FBI ran fingerprint checks? If so, then doubtful he is a criminal, or at least not much of one.

 

[Cubby]

Zaha, this might help with some of your questions. Scroll to the second half of the post and see the bold comments which are NB's independent statements.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Starting from scratch



hth

EVen in the link above, NB's 'independent' statement went on to include unconcious/unresponsive from the EMTs initial reports he was unresponsive. Never did the initial responders indicate BK was unconcious or semi concious. Again, refer back to post # 30 in this thread from Kentjbkent.

To paraphrase the old REO Speedwagon song .. I head it from a friend who, heard from a friend who..... and the tale kept growing taller on down the line. That kind of summarizes much of what has been put out, especially in the media, and neither BK or NB chose to correct, but rather continued the misinformation.

 

[eleven]

So, he has appeared on national tv, had his DNA extracted, was hypnotized, had his fingerprints taken, has been photographed numerous times from every angle......

Something is definitely amiss here. I understand people have sleuthed him relentlessly. I only posted on his forum a couple times, but I have read it in depth and have followed it closely on many outlets.

I am still not ready to call him a liar.

 

[Cubby]

Zaha, he is not being hidden. He has appeared on TV both Dr Phil and some local news stations, is in the process of having a documentary made about his story, has submitted to DNA testing, has had his finger prints in AFIS, his DNA added to CODIS, has had his face run through various state databases to see if his face matches any state drivers license or identification cards..... If he was being 'hidden' none of that would have happened.

JMO

 

[TheGodfather]

I'm not trying to undermine Tricia's expertise or the conclusions she has come to, but there are still some things that seem very vague and uncertain. From what I understand, it has been confirmed without a doubt that there was never any evidence of head injury or a physical beating by LE or paramedics. But do we know anything beyond this? How can we be certain that BK never had amnesia or that he definitely knows his true identity?

Isn't it possible that NB or BK embellished the story of his discovery and added the details about injuries in order to gain more attention, and hopefully assist in discovering his true identity? I'm not trying to justify this... it would still be a very dishonest thing to do, but it isn't hard to imagine acting irrationally out of desperation to get more exposure. It doesn't mean that BK's entire story was a lie. Maybe somewhere in this process, he came to the conclusion that he probably was homeless, but was afraid of letting people down and still wanted to know who he really was.

Again, I'm not trying to discredit or criticize Tricia's decisions or anyone who has put their time and effort into this case. I'm just trying to explore the possibilities... what I don't understand is how this new evidence about his physical condition conclusively proves that the entire story is a fraud.

 

[Wendy101]

Sorry, I meant hide as in hide from your true self....

I still can't comprehend that not one single person knows BK's real name...

Zaha, he is not being hidden. He has appeared on TV both Dr Phil and some local news stations, is in the process of having a documentary made about his story, has submitted to DNA testing, has had his finger prints in AFIS, his DNA added to CODIS, has had his face run through various state databases to see if his face matches any state drivers license or identification cards..... If he was being 'hidden' none of that would have happened.

JMO

 

[Cubby]

I'm not trying to undermine Tricia's expertise or the conclusions she has come to, but there are still some things that seem very vague and uncertain. From what I understand, it has been confirmed without a doubt that there was never any evidence of head injury or a physical beating by LE or paramedics. But do we know anything beyond this? How can we be certain that BK never had amnesia or that he definitely knows his true identity?

Isn't it possible that NB or BK embellished the story of his discovery and added the details about injuries in order to gain more attention, and hopefully assist in discovering his true identity? I'm not trying to justify this... it would still be a very dishonest thing to do, but it isn't hard to imagine acting irrationally out of desperation to get more exposure. It doesn't mean that BK's entire story was a lie. Maybe somewhere in this process, he came to the conclusion that he probably was homeless, but was afraid of letting people down and still wanted to know who he really was.

Again, I'm not trying to discredit or criticize Tricia's decisions or anyone who has put their time and effort into this case. I'm just trying to explore the possibilities... what I don't understand is how this new evidence about his physical condition conclusively proves that the entire story is a fraud.

You're right. We can't know for certain more than what we have learned as facts. We don't know.... why or what the motivation was for any fabrications to the story. BK has been invited to make a statement so we will have to leave it up to him to decide whether to or not.

However, since it was the alleged beating which led to having amnesia, now that we know no beating ever occured, what explaination might there be? I don't know.........

For me, that is not the only thing that is vague, but having been a part of this forum for sometime and working this case for some time, it was one of the pieces of the puzzle that made some of the uncertainties much more clear for myself. I do not expect others who have not invested as many hours as I have to come to that same clarity based on the information Tricia has shared.

JMO

 

[eleven]

You're right. We can't know for certain more than what we have learned as facts. We don't know.... why or what the motivation was for any fabrications to the story. BK has been invited to make a statement so we will have to leave it up to him to decide whether to or not.

However, since it was the alleged beating which led to having amnesia, now that we know no beating ever occured, what explaination might there be? I don't know.........

For me, that is not the only thing that is vague, but having been a part of this forum for sometime and working this case for some time, it was one of the pieces of the puzzle that made some of the uncertainties much more clear for myself. I do not expect others who have not invested as many hours as I have to come to that same clarity based on the information Tricia has shared.

JMO

Cubby,

If one gets amnesia, how is it possible that they know HOW they got amnesia? In other words, if they don't remember anything, then they don't remember the event that led to their amnesia.

Also, is it true that the EMT or paramedic was on Dr Phil and told Dr Phil that BK was unresponsive? Or is that hearsay?

 

[Cubby]

What type of documents would BK have to give his permission for the FBI to have? Considering that we are specifically talking about his lack of head injury, I would presume we are talking about medical records. Per HIPAA, the FBI as well as state and local law enforcement ABSOLUTELY DO NOT NEED permission from a patient to view his/her medical records. There are many instances where HIPAA doesn't apply. It does not apply to Law Enforcement.

Then perhaps the FBI had the information and did not share it with us. Again, I am going to defer back to post # 30 as how I arrived at my conclusion. I'm not a HIPAA expert, so that was purely speculation on my part.

 

[justthinkin]

All I can say is NB and BK were all too willing to say they did not have BK's medical records, and then to tell sleuthers they would need $800 to pay the hospital for those records which turned out to be a bald faced lie.

believe09, called the hospital and/or wrote them to verify the statement, and got back a somewhat curt letter from the hospital telling her that they had already provided BK free copies of his medical records.

Sure sounds like attempted fraud to me. Like others, I believe BK knows who he is, and has probably had some good laughs at the expense of some very sincere people willing to help someone they/we thought was in need.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't know much about Mr. Kyle's story so I don't want to express any opinion about him one way or another. I just don't understand why he would go on Dr. Phil and tout his case on facebook if he's got something to hide. It seems stupid. :waitasec:
I'm not saying he's a fraud, I'm not saying he is not. I don't know enough to have an opinion. These are just some general comments about different causes of amnesia based on my experience. It's not about him specifically and there might be reasons why these don't apply to his case but I thought I'd share because people were wondering why he would have amnesia without having been beaten up.

It is quite possible to have amnesia without having any overt injury or signs of being beaten up. The reasons can include brain trauma from an accident or assault that left no outward signs or happened a while ago and the injuries have had time to heal, a cerebrovascular accident, hypoxia, drug or alcohol abuse, poisoning by various toxic substances, transient global amnesia, fugue states, psychological trauma, dissociative experiences, psychosis, dementia due to progressive brain diseases etc. Some of these can leave little or no tracks that are objectively detectable medically especially if there is some time since the injury. For instance, I have met several people who had obvious brain trauma due to known head injury but they had trouble with their insurance company because their brain scans (CT or MRI) weren't abnormal enough. I wouldn't call anybody a liar just because there are no bruises or obvious injuries. Suppose you're in a car accident. You could get a head injury without other visible injuries if you're strapped by a seatbelt and the car brakes very suddenly and your head continues its movement fast forward, then stops and returns rapidly hitting the head support while your brain gets bruised against your skull. There might sometimes be a bruise or some swelling in the back of your head but it might be minimal or go unnoticed if it's covered by your hair and of course it will heal completely if some time elapses between your injury and you being examined.

It is rather rare for neurological amnesiacs to completely forget their identity. Usually that's one of the last things to go. People may forget their current address, their married name if it's recent, what happened last week or what they said just a minute ago but they usually know who they are unless there is severe neuropsychological abnormality in other respects too (eg. they're confused, delirious, have a range of other cognitive deficits such as difficulty in speech, attention, executive, visuospatial or prob-lem solving ability).

Head injury from just about any cause can be accompanied with retrograde amnesia that destroys (or makes them unaccessible) the memories from some time preceding the injury. It can affect just a few hours or some days or weeks. Occasionally several years or even decades are lost and a 60-year old man can think he's still 20 and talk about his life as it was in his twenties. In its severe form in which several years are lost retrograde amnesia is usually accompanied with some degree of current memory difficulties, difficulty in learning new things, remembering what has hap-pened since the injury, what was in the news last week, what we had for dinner last night and so on. If we're talking about neurological damage it's rare to have retrograde amnesia severe enough to destroy one's sense of identity without some other signs of memory difficulty and other neuropsychological deficits because if the brain insult is as severe as that it's rarely so selective that it only targets the brain areas responsible for accessing past memories and leaves everything else intact.

If there is severe retrograde amnesia stemming from an injury it includes the moment of the injury and the patient doesn’t remember what happened firsthand. He wouldn’t know if he was beaten or not and would have to rely on whatever he’s been told. If the paper says he was beaten and another paper says he wasn’t he wouldn’t be in a position to say who’s wrong. Sometimes the patient might keep on denying that anything happened and deny that there’s anything wrong with him altogether. If he recognizes that he’s ill he might learn to remember what he’s been told about what happened or concoct an elaborate theory to explain what might have happened. Sometimes these stories are plausible, sometimes they aren’t. "I must have been beaten up" is one of the more natural conclusions someone might come to if all they know they've been found naked in a back alley. People with amnesia tend to be suggestible too and a person might adopt an assault as their preferred explanation if that's what they've been told or if they've heard that speculated repeatedly.

Amnesia may be accompanied with a tendency to confabulate, to fill up the memory gaps by telling stories that are sometimes quite detailed but which aren’t true. This looks like lying but really it isn’t. They may be based on something that happened a long time ago or what the patient saw on tv in the morning or whatever they see around them right now but they may told as they happened and the patient may believe them himself. Often they’re clearly confused and neurologically damaged but sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference if the patient is alert and talks rationally, appearing cognitively coherent. On repeated questioning they might tell something else altogether and have completely forgotten the previous story. Sometimes they cling on to variations of the same story for long periods of time. This might explain why an amnesiac tells a seemingly untrue stories about what happened to him. It's rare to have them confabulate about one thing only, usually there's more. They don't usually express any uncertainty about if what they're saying is true.

If there is amnesia severe enough to cause complete loss of identity with a lack of any accompanying neuropsychological deficits suggests that psychogenic amnesia may be more likely than neurological disease. It may happen in transient global amnesia but that's usually reversible.

Has it been reported if Mr. Kyle has had a psychological and neuropsychological examination done?

 

[DBinMA]

I have been following this case closely and have at various times felt "unsure" of BK's validity. But what I find curious is that no one has come forward, I find people in this day and age are eager for their 15 minutes of fame. People are much more likely to come forward to expose someone as a fraud then to lend a helping hand (or so it seems with all of this reality TV stuff). I will continue to watch how it all unfolds.

 

[Elphaba]

I keep coming back and reading... I am... stunned... I guess that is the right word. So many people on here worked on this for years. Over 2.5 years, if I am right... how heartbreaking.


To those of you that worked so hard on this case: please don't let this turn of events change your determination and drive that you have put into WS... the hard work yall did on this speaks volumes... speaks of people that care and are trying to make a difference. I applaud that... and know, that there are a lot of other cases that will benefit from your drive and determination. Please don't let this BK person's fraudulent actions drive you away...

I think BK owes everyone an explanation... and it is time that follow ups are done with the various media outlets his story ran on, to let them know that all isn't as it seemed with the man.

 

[Kentjbkent]

Show me where BK never said he was beaten. It's in his wikipage, it was in the last media story written about his case less than 2 weeks ago.

Didn't he also provide this claim to Dr Phil when appearing on his show?

 

[Elphaba]

Kent: I found the official Dr Phil message board, and the "beaten" claim is on there, with a link to a short video. It is not said in the video, but still, the show did post that he was "beaten", on the message board. (not sure if we can link to that message board... if it is okay, I will post the addy.)

 

[Cubby]

Rereading this old Savannah news article from September of 2007 seems a little more 'clear' now.

http://savannahnow.com/node/364434

From the article:

At Kingston's request, the FBI took Kyle's fingerprints and forwarded them to the National Criminal Justice Information Services Division in West Virginia. There, technicians ran the prints through their national databases, which include convicted criminals, crime scene evidence and anyone who ever served in U.S. armed forces, said William Kirkconnell, supervisory senior resident agent for the FBI in Savannah.
"There was nothing on file," Kirkconnell said. "It's an unfortunate story that was relayed to us. It's sad. If the FBI can help reunite this guy with his family, that would be a terrific thing."

If I am interpreting this correctly, the FBI did not get involved in BK's case until 2007? and did so at the request of the congressman or his office.

Nothing in this article indicates to me the FBI verified any facts in the story...... but simply offered to help see if they could find any identification for him in data bases.

Even in this story Mr. Kyle states he believes he was mugged.

 

[believe09]

Exactly my point as well. Benjaman never said he was beaten, false news reporting may have said that, but I never recall him saying that.

So why is Websleuths administrators saying he is a fake, because news reporters said he was beaten and LE said he wasn't. I don't recall Benjaman saying he was beaten, so how does this make him a fraud?

Once again, I want prove of these allegations against him.

How do you know BK Doe never said he was beaten:waitasec:?

Here is a copy/paste from the Dr Phil website with a direct quote from BK:
"The cleaning woman at the Burger King found me just before they opened, so it was about 6:00 a.m. The day is pretty hazy to me. I don’t remember too much about it. I was unconscious. I had ant bites all over me, [and was] beaten. I have no idea how I got there. I don’t remember anything about it. I had no memory of my name, parents, relatives. I don’t even know where I worked," says Benjaman."
http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/4682/?id=4682&showID=1146

There are multiple, and I mean MULTIPLE articles out there, including blogs for someone as well known as Colleen Fitzpatrick, containing multiple quotes from both BK and NB-but each and everyone of those reporters made up an assault? And after having read the articles containing their interviews, and in some cases including the links on their Wikipedia page, they never corrected this blatantly false premise? That BK had amnesia post assault.

I just want to make sure I am getting your post.

I think that this is a weak defense at best-although not a surprising one. JMO.

I will go back and finish the thread-but I want you all to know that Tricia's motivation for closing the thread is to protect her sleuthers. She knew that everyone would not be satisfied no matter what she showed or shared. It is up to you to decide what circumstances might lead to someone falling asleep naked in a dumpster covered with scabies, waking to find the police staring at you and no longer knowing who you were or where you came from. For almost 5 years. Maybe he has Alzheimers?

In my view, BK looked pretty credible and had a champion (NB) so Dr Phil wasnt going to let the search for truth get in the way of good theater. After all, his show is primarily about entertainment. In terms of the FBI, their involvement in his case came as a result of NB finding access to a well know GA senator. It cost them nothing, really, to fingerprint him and put those prints into Aphis....and then run them against other prints in that system. The rest of the work that was done for him-dentals, xrays, DNA etc was privately donated. I know that because if you read the threads I set much of it up for him. GBI closed out his case a while ago because they did not believe it.

People are going to want to continue to champion BK Doe and NB-people are going to find lots of little reasons to discount police reports and medical reports. At the end of the day, the core sleuthers on the case did not really care if he was a vagrant to begin with-although he and NB emphatically deny it. I guess my question to them would be how do they know he was not? I mean, if you dont know who you are, how can you know who you are not??? If there was no physical trauma, what caused the amnesia? Once no physical cause was determined, did he participate in therapy to address the possible emotional route of it?

Thank you to everyone of you who gave of their hearts to this man and his situation. While this is not the ideal outcome, I think it stand up in the bright light of day far better than what we have seen to date.

Peace

 

[believe09]

I'm not trying to undermine Tricia's expertise or the conclusions she has come to, but there are still some things that seem very vague and uncertain. From what I understand, it has been confirmed without a doubt that there was never any evidence of head injury or a physical beating by LE or paramedics. But do we know anything beyond this? How can we be certain that BK never had amnesia or that he definitely knows his true identity?

Isn't it possible that NB or BK embellished the story of his discovery and added the details about injuries in order to gain more attention, and hopefully assist in discovering his true identity? I'm not trying to justify this... it would still be a very dishonest thing to do, but it isn't hard to imagine acting irrationally out of desperation to get more exposure. It doesn't mean that BK's entire story was a lie. Maybe somewhere in this process, he came to the conclusion that he probably was homeless, but was afraid of letting people down and still wanted to know who he really was.

Again, I'm not trying to discredit or criticize Tricia's decisions or anyone who has put their time and effort into this case. I'm just trying to explore the possibilities... what I don't understand is how this new evidence about his physical condition conclusively proves that the entire story is a fraud.

It depends on whether you are someone who views the story as poisoned since the foundation of the story has been discredited.

Why couldnt BK have said what I bolded above? FWIW I actually think this may be happening behind the scenes on some level-the documentary does not appear to be evolving and the long promised Newsweek article seems to have stalled, so I wonder if BK and NB have actually said to someone that there was no beating. And because of all the "urban legend" that has been reported, they have to find a way to take a fresh approach.