BIG HOLES in the defense theory

[MomofBoys]

According to the Ping map, didn't Casey spend all morning away from the Anthony home that fateful day? Miles away up in the Azalea Park area? The only real ping near the Anthony home was at 1pm, which is perfectly in line with the Diners, Drive-thrus, and Dives ep George mentioned. His timeline fits perfectly. Back in the day, I even emailed the Food Network to establish that it did air in those timeslots, lol. I know George did say he ate breakfast with Caylee that morning, but didn't KC "leave for work"? Or was she still sleeping and then left?

It just seems the pings really do put a dent in Baez' theory.

Unrelated, but The defense discovered a hole in their already flimsy boat, I think. Why push for a mistrial? Baez looks like a fool, but that's nothing new. I thought they chose the only option they had. Do they know something's coming?

 

[carole]

I don't know if this has been brought up already but I just watched JB's opening statement again and maybe I'm crazy but it seems to me that Jose was trying to plant a seed in the Juror's mind that George could be Caylee's father. Jose said that things w/Lee got so bad that the State tested him regarding Caylee's paternity but he NEVER said that George was tested, didn't bring that up at all. Funny, he did say the sexual abuse didn't go as far w/Lee as it did w/George BUT it got so bad they tested Lee?!? Sure sounds like a contradiction to me.

Also, is he comparing KC's home life to the book/movie, Flowers In The Attic? JB stated that THEY (GA & CA) hid that child like a Flower in the Attic, as I recall a young child about Caylee's age died in that book/movie. IF KC is telling JB this story then I can totally see her making it all up based on reading the book or watching the movie....with all the lies in the past & her imaginary life. I just can't see a grown man/lawyer at that, trying to sell this story to anyone but KC after all the lies, I can see her thinking it will fly since she loves to live in fantasy land. I just hope the Jury can see it.

BBM

DNA was taken from George and Lee (rumors were flying back in 2008) and it was determined that neither are Caylee's father. I feel sure the prosecution will bring this into evidence later in the trial.

 

[DairyGirl]

My boyfriend is the fairest person I know. He gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't even want to say that OJ is guilty. He is also very smart. He has been on juries before and was made the foreman.
I gave him the basics about this case and he watched some of it on tv. After hearing about JB's opening statement he said "She's guilty."

 

[Gracenote]

GA being a detective would not have allowed that car to be used as evidence-it would have been burned up, dropped in a canal, or crashed.

GA also would not have left the tape laying around-it would have been long gone.

GA also would not have had the body around the corner from the house.

GA would not have let a sticker from the house to be put on the tape.

My thoughts exactly, plus, had George found his precious granddaughter floating in the pool, he would be screaming for someone to call 911, giving her CPR, pounding on her chest, etc. No way he would take that moment to say "I'm telling Mom and you'll be in trouble!" It is a ridiculous story.

 

[Chiquita71]

Why is she still in jail? It was "a common accident". Why didn't her attorney advise her to tell the truth? So she could go home. Would you sit in jail while all these vile things are said about you? I know I wouldn't IFFFFFF my baby accidentally died.

Everyone else is out to get ICA, but her attorney "who is fighting for her life" is letting her sit in jail while he gets his 15 min of fame.

That is the biggest glaring hole for me.

Another hole.... they admitted that Zanny was a lie to cover for Caylee drowning, how are they going to explain zanny "babysitting" Caylee all those months? where was Caylee when she wasn't with Cindy or george or KC?

the find her not guilty so she can go home, statemnet got me as well? What home?? She doesn't have a home especially after this!!!

How many children drown in pools are then duct taped and bagged? How many?

The DT should have just left this crazy Kronk business out of the story. The jury MAY have bought the accident theory, but to me, the Kronk thing has made the DT lose all credibility, especially being that JB has not given a single CLUE as to where Kronk supposedly found Caylee's remains. Another thing... every time Kronk called the police, are we to believe he carried the body out there each time, and when the police didn't see anything, he took the body back with him/hid it again? Makes no sense.

George is there and discovers Caylee has died in the pool. I don't see why George would want to hide an accident, even if he molested ICA which has nothing to do with this accident. It's just ridiculous.

For me..and if I was on the jury, the biggest hole is that I would want to know why George didn't call 911? JB said we'll never know why, but there would have to be a reason and I cannot think of one and apparently JB couldn't come up with anything either. I don't believe a word of the story, but to even consider it, JB needs to come up with at least a couple possibilities. Now, CASEY, her I can come up with quite a few reasons why she wouldn't call 911, but George? What possible reason could he have for not calling 911????

That and he just threw Caylee in ICA's trunk and let ICA drive all over town with her body rotting in it? When ICA could have driven straight to the police? Told them her father killed Caylee? Right...bullcrud...

Oh and let's not forget that even though ICA is a proven liar and pled guilty to theft...that NOW...when her life is on the line she is FINALLY telling the truth? We shouldn't believe her then...but we HAVE to believe her now? Bullcrud.

The fact that if you look up the A's zipcode on the date of the 16th of June...that on the weather underground it shows FIERCE ground to thunder lightning and rain...that Caylee would have just gone outside in a thunderstorm by herself and climbed into the pool? Bullcrud.

The fact that the chloroform searches made solely by ICA were not addressed by the defense coupled with the fact that the A's did NOT use chlorine in their pool...will not explain the levels found in the trunk.

Oh yeah....and the fact that GA will not allow her new story and lies to STAND even if it means she could face LOP or death.

I do not believe the molestation story. Period. Largely because she has only told that to guys she was sleeping with that she hoped to indebt. Never told the molestation story to any female friends. Why? Cuz it wouldn't indebt her to her female friends. But she would tell any guy she thought she was serious about.

ICA will go down in flames. Caylee will have her justice. And the mere fact that GA would lose Caylee (the one person in that family who looked at him with pure love and adoration) and just be fine with it for 31 days? Forever? Bullcrud.

The defense is writing checks they can't back up...sound like their defendent?

So what did GA do with Caylee's body after she was found drowned? If GA and ICA really found her as JB says, did they hide that from CA? And come up with this nanny story togeether?

And see, that's the thing!

If Roy Kronk just wanted the money/ reward that came with finding Caylee, why would he want to make it look like a kidnapping? There would be no need to 'stage' anything at all.

Caylee's body with duct tape over the face wasn't worth any more than Caylee without it.

The defense isn't giving the jury's intelligence enough credit. Doesn't Baez realize the jurors do have brains?

So the DT is ADMITTING to the child's death, but they are fighting the decomp and death hair in the car trunk. ???????

Why would such a wonderful attentive mother react to an accident this way? It's such a contradiction. She's only painted as disturbed as needed. Another contradiction is it's junk science when it can't be explained but, any forensics or science reflecting a negative result or favoring the defense is emphasized as truth.

Just getting on and have not read through the thread...someone may have already posted this but here goes....

JB never explained if George was there with KC and found Caylee drowned, what happened after that???...he went right to Roy Kronk and him being money grubbing and why he wanted to find her and even saying Roy placed her there...Where was she before that??? JB never said what supposedly George and KC did with the body after Caylee was supposedly dead in his arms????

So the DT goes with the pool accident theory, but then they go into great lengths to cover up any sign of Caylee having died in their backyard. If she died in the pool, and they layed her down anywhere in the yard, wouldn't that automatically explain why the dogs hit there? Same with the car. How did GA supposedly ultimately remove Caylee from the yard and to where did he originally take her if not down the road?

:waitasec: Nothing makes sense.

I swear to cheese and crackers, that while Baez was delivering his opening statement, I expected him to say at any moment, 'Then the ship hovered above Caylee's body for a few minutes, before beaming it aboard...'

Excellent point!

They are fighting what will be easily proven by science, provided by the FBI in Quantico, Virginia!

But, they are admitting that Casey knowingly lied to law enforcement, concealed a child's death, mistreated her daughters corpse, cost the taxpayers thousands upon thousands of dollars, on and on.

My head is spinning.

Jeff Ashton asked George about the alleged sex abuse, and George denied it.

Baez never brought it up to George's face, while George was on the stand, at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

IMO:

Notice also that JB said: she could have his pen..in her mouth...

not,

she did have

Those are two very different statements. Could have, is a what if..., did have is a statement of fact. So JB was very cagey in that regard.

Not only did Kronk steal Caylee's body but he moved it all over creation without getting his DNA on her or the bags she was in. If bones are missing I assume that the DT is contending he messed with her remains.

THEN...as he's hiding Caylee he calls the police several times?

Great thread!

My three biggest holes are:

1) ICA sitting in jail for three years waiting for a trial because of Caylee's accidental death. Never even mind being up for the DP. If there was any way ICA could have gotten out during these last three years, you bet she would have in a heartbeat.

2) JB saying that "LA also abused ICA but it never reached the level GA's abuse did."
Then JB says that, "LA's abuse got so bad, the FBI gave LA a paternity test."

Which is it Mr. Baez? hmmm?

3) RC hiding Caylee's body, but there was a Caylee death band hair found in ICA's trunk and the decomp odor.

Soooo, we're to believe that RC hid Caylee's body in ICA's car and she never knew?

Eh Em...

Hole in the defense:

Casey's jailhouse letters where she described GA's possible sexual abuse:

"Over the past few months, I've been having really vivid dreams, and it's obvious they are dreams of things that have already happened. I think my Dad used to do the same thing to me, but I was much younger. I can see him in my room exactly the way it was when I was in elementary school and everything gets fuzzy. But I wake up feeling both sore and sick to my stomach, the way I used feel growing up."

Basically Casey wrote she had a dream that GA molested her so if she had a dream it must be true. She doesn't go into any more detail about GA but just before she wrote about how she THOUGHT her dad sexually abused her, she goes into detail about LA's sexual abuse.

How do you go from 'thinking your father' abused you because of a dream to the leap Jose took in court today saying George put his penis in her mouth? I can't even believe I just typed that.

The letters I'm referring to are on page 8 & 9 at the Fox site:

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/040610casey-jail-letters-pt1/1/lg/casey_letters1_8.htm

IMO

And after Caylee accidentally drowned Casey went partying for what reason afterwards?

:banghead:Your baby dies in accidental drowning, so you....

1. Perform CPR and call for family member/s to call 911 hoping against hope that someone can revive the precious child, then ride in the ambulance to the hospital with the baby. Once the child is pronounced dead, call family and friends, mourn, prepare a memorial service, bury the child and mourn.
2. Or cover up an ACCIDENT, lying when the truth would do better, wrap the baby in her blankie and duct tape, stuff her in three bags, throw her in a swamp and pretend like nothing ever happened.

Hum....:maddening:

It's more like four or five different ideas got meshed together.

Well their "defense" mirrors their search for explanations over the past 2 years. They have mentioned Roy Kronk, incest/molestation, bad LE, etc...they're really throwing everything at the wall it seems.

The biggest hole is the lack of evidence. JB must have said "we'll never know" twenty times. I think that translates into "we have no proof."

Casey is basically saying:

1) my family was/is bad.. they made me this way

2)I was abused, neglected, assaulted by my dad and brother, and my pregnancy was made a joke of

3) Caylee drown and dad helped hide it... he did it too.. not just MEEEEEEE....

4) there is no 4


DISGUSTING

It's almost as if the DT spent the last 3 years pouring over websites such this one looking for the most outrageous conspiracy stories they could find and threw them all together into one opening statement.
One thing I do believe. When JB says that GA yelled at KC that her mother would never forgive her and that she was going to spend the rest of her life in jail for child neglect. Except it wasn't GA telling her that, it was her own mind telling her that would happen if she told the truth.

The title is so open ended I don't even know where to start. Not all the holes will be able to be addressed or filled during trial but I can tell you that as an intelligent person....the holes for me, are more like voids.

The "bombshell".....Caylee was never missing.

This is a vast canyon of a statement....because with it MORE questions arise than can be answered.

If to be believed.....

Why was TES allowed to come in and exhaust all their financial resources?

Why did the family accept donations?

Why did the family bash LE for not following up on random "tips"?

Why did the family set up a personal tipline apart from LE?

Why did the family employ psychics and their own investigators?

Why did JB state publically that there was a nanny?

WHy did the DT employ Terry Lenamon to pen a memorandum to Judge Strickland regarding OD of a sedative?

Why did the DT allow AL and TM to funnel massive amounts of cash into the DT.

Why did the DT harass and stalk TES searchers??

Why did the DT turn down the opportunity to plea to a lesser charge of improper disposal of a body?

Why did JB single handedly fight a gag order?

Why did the DT fight all discovery EXCEPT the jail letters??


Next hole shortly.

:takeabow: Everyone.

 

[SummerRaye]

You guys are so smart....sometimes it leaves me speechless. (im not joking either...that's a true statement).

I agree with everyones "holes" and I honestly haven't read through the whole thread...but my biggest hole is where the heck was Baez's "Aha" moment? I thought we were supposed to sit back and go, "Ooooooooooooh!!! Thats what's up!!" after his first 5 minutes or something.

It still doesn't make sense that she waited 31 days to call authorities.

Much less three years to tell the "*truth*"

There are many more that I have but you guys have all said em...

 

[nerdy]

The DT theory expects the jury to believe that the ONE time ICA tells the truth just ALSO happens to be when she is facing the death penalty and that it just happens to blame everyone else, and completely exonerate her and also makes HER out to be the victim?

Yeah right!

MTE!

And that ICA feared CA more than the DP these past three years - her motivation to keep the "accident" secret.

 

[rbrnmw2]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLquF7kRN9w&feature=related"][/ame][ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLquF7kRN9w&feature=related[/ame]

How will they explain this?

 

[Chiquita71]

That KC lived in such fear of Cindy is a huge hole. All they need to do is play the clips of the way she speaks to her mother during the jail house visits. Cindy lives in fear of KC.

But he did. Baez told the jury he couldn't support his opening statement every time he said, 'We'll never know.'

My opinion.

The biggest hole JB has to cover up is why would KC sit in jail for nearly 3 years to protect the man that abused her?

Speculation? They didn't speculate, they just went with outright fantasy.

I actually thought her head shaking and looking at the attorney next to her in "surprise" like "can you believe this?" was pretty funny. Here is a person who did nothing but lie for years and she wants to come across as some poor innocent thing that can't believe someone is sitting on the stand lying. Like lying is some sort of shocking concept for her.

If ICA is okay with spilling all the deep dark secrets now.....
WHY DID SHE WAIT 3 YEARS in jail to do so???? :banghead:

I have no doubt whatsoever that if JB's fabrication were true Casey would have ratted out George the second the cuffs came out. Period.

I think its a hole that computer searches were done about chloroform, household weapons, neck breaking etc.... but none were done about molestation, incest, sexual abuse.

Guess they changed her into "big trouble comes in small packages" T-shirt before they threw her body away like trash.

Casey has done nothing but lie, lie, lie. Oh, but suddenly NOW she's telling the truth...for really, really, real this time, honest! (give me a break)

If Roy Kronk took Caylee's body, kept it for a long time, and then went and dumped it so he could claim to find it, then why were there months worth of vegetation growing through the rib cage? (and if he did really find Caylee's body, what did he have to gain by keeping it instead of reporting it immediately?)

BIG holes, I agree.

1)SHE WOULD NOT SIT THERE, SHAKING HER FISTS AND BEING A B*%CH TO HER FATHER IN THE JAILHOUSE TAPES IF SHE WAS ABUSED BY HIM!!!!!!!!

I am beyond angry. I want to see this so-called 'person' brought to justice. I want that so much, I can't even shwallow, as this so-called 'human being' would say.

2) Witnesses saw George shaking this person, begging her to tell him what happened to the baby. Witnesses saw her saying something like, 'stop acting like a cop and act like a father.'

No, she shouted it, at her abuser??????? No friggin way!!!

The duct tape is all I need. No one would apply duct tape that way to a deceased child that they were not making sure would be found.

I hope that the state has the logs of how many times the police have been called to Hopespring drive because this family has never had a problem calling 911. I think since they've been in Florida they must have called 911 20 times. KC herself called 911 when the protesters were throwing pennies at their house, but when George and KC supposedly found Caylee drowned in the pool, they didn't try to resuscitate her or call 911...they decided to cover it up???

Haven't read thru ,yet,but something keeps knocking on my brain. The deposition taken by the State ,of the two drs from the defense is even more important now. JB was attempting to get them added to the guilt phase.In the middle of a depo ,JB wanted it stopped and called HH to make it so.
Then the State adds them to their witness list ,as the defense drops them.

I think they will be a sticky wicket for the defense. I expect them to blow a big hole in the defense.

NeJame was commenting after the end today and said after the cross of GA, there is no way the DT can resuscitate this trial.

The DT leaves the story at Caylee drown in the pool then the story ends from their pov. Nothing on what/where/ when the body was after that. Just she died in the pool.

Why is the DT trying to make the cadaver dogs sound like they are unreliable? JB just told us all that the body was in fact dead in the back yard. I have no idea how soon the body gives off the smell of decomp, but she WAS dead in the back yard. For how long IDK, so it is not unreasonable that the dogs picked up on the scent. And as for the car, she had to be transported somehow. I don't think she was taken in a picnic basket down to the corner. It is not unreasonable to think she was in the car even if she died in the pool and there was a cover up.

It makes not sense to say the dogs aren't any good at finding the scent.

If the theory is that Casey was in denial that her baby drowned, because she doesn't want to deal with anything bad...

Why would she say that she had been beat down, and her baby kidnapped?

That's bad, right?

The crock that Baez created around George, the swimming pool and sex abuse was disgusting, but throwing Kronk into the mix was just plain stupid. After about the first 3 minutes, not much he said made any sense or held together. She going down big time . . . idiots.

As they just stated on NG the duct was put there prior to death, so you duct tape her then drown her and claim accident??

maybe someone will know the answer:

way back in the beginning there was talk of a "flurry of phone calls". from casey to cindy, george, etc... and that no one answered her calls. then her phone went silent for a few hours. does this sound familiar to anyone?

how does this fit into this new story by the defense? if george was at home with casey, why was she calling him?


my heart sunk when i heard this new story by casey/jb. i think she is guilty, but am afraid this will somehow affect the jury.

If the smell in her car was from trash and the trash was dried out and the smell went away, why didn't it go away in the car????

If it were an accident, and you want to go with JB, why would GA put the duct tape on her? Did GA come up with sawgrass apts, zanny, the letter. Come on JB you have a dream tream.

I think a big problem will be the fact that GA and CA's faces always light up when they talk about memories of Caylee....there is no doubting their absolute adoration of their grandchild.

But when/if ICA takes the stand we will see none of that. She's no good at faking emotion to begin with. She will cry , she will pout, but she will not light up the way the people the really loved Caylee do.
That is how the jury will know that the defense theory is a complete sham.

JMO

The big hole in the defense theory is the absence of the truth -- about anything! Nothing the defense presented stands up to further examination.

JB lied several times today.
Said body was not in woods.
Said body was 20 ft from road.
Said water was only at dump site for 10 days.
Said G&C waited weeks before going to get Sunfire @ J;s Towing.

...Darn, there were so many more and now I can't remember them!

Please someone explain to me how a former homicide detective would decide it was a good idea to use unique duct tape, somewhat unique bedding, one of a set of laundry bags, leaving the other in his garage, trash bags that were readily found in his home and then to dump his granddaughter down the street after suggesting that his daughter carry a body around in her trunk for almost 3 days.
I have never been in law enforcement, and I could tell you right now, it would be the dumbest thing ever to stash the body down the street when you are virtually SURROUNDED BY ALLIGATOR INFESTED SWAMPS-let alone leave the body with all sorts of evidence leading directly back to the site of the "accident."

ETA-Unless you meant to go back and gather the body later, which GA had all sorts of opportunity to do....oh, that's right, the nefarious and conniving RoyK masterminded the dump for money and publicity.
Hey guys, I have a slice of real estate in Timbuktu, any takers?

Holes?
That neither the ex cop or his brain damaged daughter called 911 on finding a drowned Caylee, assuming she drowned at all. Children are revived everyday and I for one believe GA when he says he would have done anything to save his Grandaughter.
The car that smells like death was in KC's possession not her fathers or Roy Kronks.
Where did Roy Kronk stash decomposing Caylee for the months he's alleged to have held on to her?
The duct tape????
The lousy lawyering that would allow a frail child, sexually abused and then sent to school to play, to sit in jail and rot facing first degree murder charges and the DP for 3 years rather than to admit the accident. One can only assume it took the DT 3 years to come up with this sad defense.

I can't even go on. I'm so disgusted. I'm pro DP now Jose. Good job!

Okay, here goes, in no particular order...

*Casey making the leap from "dreaming" George molested her, to him ACTUALLY molesting her

*Baez insinuated that GEORGE had possession of that duct tape. He also insinuated that George put the duct tape on the gas cans. So if George wrapped her up and bagged her and put the heart sticker on her (ridiculous, especially since he is former LE and wouldn't risk leaving his DNA in all that, and putting her right behind the house where his daughter, and maybe other kids play in the woods) thennnnn...

a) where did he put her from then until when Kronk somehow found her to get possession of her

b) why wouldn't Kronk just leave her wherever she was initially put, then call the police

c) Baez wants us to believe that ICA wouldn't have put Caylee where she could be found so easily. He made it sound crazy that she would do that. In fact, he said "She wasn't put there to be hidden, she was put there to be FOUND" yet he wants us to believe that a former Law Enforcement officer put her somewhere where she could easily be found? Or does he want us to believe that Kronk found her, broke into the house, got the blankets, the duct tape, wrapped her, bagged her, and placed her behind the Anthony home where ICA used to hang out with friends?



Also, like I said, why would Kronk transport the body at all? Why not just leave her where George supposedly put her? Why would Kronk wait months if he was in dire straits financially? HOW did Kronk know for sure she had died, and where to look, if she wasn't initially in the car? If roots were growing through her remains, he had to have found her soon after she had died and moved the body quickly. I guess we are to believe that former LE hides a body where any old meter reader can stumble across it so soon after her death, or that Kronk had inside knowledge somehow.

*WHY would Casey lie about hitting an animal, park near a dumpster, and put trash in her trunk to explain/conceal a smell if the poor baby wasn't in the car?

*WHY would Casey abandon the car at all if the smell could be remedied by taking out some trash? All she needed was some gas money. She had no problem stealing people's hard earned money for food or clothes, but draws the line at gas? please.

*So Casey had concocted the Nanny story months in advance with George when she knew Caylee would accidentally drown?

*She ASKED to see George in jail?


*If the jailhouse tapes come into evidence the "All you guys care about is Caylee" carp isn't going to fly with the jury. Some doting mother.

* she is conveniently mentally "disturbed". AWESOME mother (who left her child to be babysat with the man and brother who molested her) and provided everything for her (in someone else's house, with someone else's food, and someone else's money). But when they need her to be "disturbed" and "trained to lie" she is.

*The internet searches.


Then of course the normal stuff comes to mind, like partying, stealing, lying to George about the nanny when he supposedly was there for the death, "la bella vita" (yeah, some beautiful life she led...Jose wants us to believe she was so tormented. Some beautiful life, being molested and abused and having your daughter die while your father makes you cover it up and frames you by putting duct tape on the cans then calling about a breaking and entering)


WE MAY NEVER KNOW...

well yeah, we could know if you ASKED the person you're accusing of all of this nonsense, yet you didn't seem to make THAT a priority when you had your first crack at him on the witness stand. No mention of being involved in covering her death, or sexual abuse.

Please. The more I think about it, the more insane it gets.

They should have stopped at accidental death and post traumatic stress. Maybe dysfunctional family and psychological disorders. They shot themselves in the foot dragging Kronk and George into this.

I have to go have a beer now. I'm livid again.

:tyou: Everyone. I am very glad to have other people to discuss this with. I could not deal with it alone, it is comforting.

The fact that Jose and Casey do not have the same thought processes as the other 99% of us, shows so blatantly now. When Maria Kissh was on the stand, Jose immediately went to the "you must have been jealous of Casey living in the same apartment as your boyfriend at the time, so you are probably lying about Caylee opening the door by herself to a stranger and being on the balcony by herself" ploy. Disgusting. :sick: Truly Jose has set to make Casey a saint a perfect person accused of what is worst when she is spotless. It is sickening. Again, thank you all for being here.

I know the SA has known what they were dealing with, I know they know now. That is why they must be ever so careful...and HHJP, all he has to do is follow the law and I think that is part of what makes him smile. :luv:

Justice for Caylee :hug:

:cow:

 

[rbrnmw2]

Another interesting part of the Universal interview

Notice at this time she is terrified of Cindy expresses no fear of George

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rA4nBgphfQ&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Stella5]

From JB's own mouth in his opening statement....

"On June 16th, 2008 Casey was home with Caylee and so was her father. Early morning hours the exact time is not known, it could have been early afternoon or early morning... actually it was the early morning hours."

This to me screams deception! Even in your opening statement lie, you cannot get your lie right or accurate?!?!?

 

[carole]

From JB's own mouth in his opening statement....

"On June 16th, 2008 Casey was home with Caylee and so was her father. Early morning hours the exact time is not known, it could have been early afternoon or early morning... actually it was the early morning hours."

This to me screams deception! Even in your opening statement lie, you cannot get your lie right or accurate?!?!?

BBM

I remember this, too. I thought he must be thinking "did I just say that out loud?".

And how could Casey possibly not remember the time???

 

[Leila]

I haven't read every post in this thread so I don't know if this has been discussed.

I thought of this on Monday and then with all the discussion of the events of that day, forgot about it until now. I want to put it here before I forget it again.

When Casey was bonded out of jail by Leonard Padilla in August 2008, she was only home a few hours before there was a problem. Evidently George got upset that Casey wasn't talking. He went into her room and demanded answers about what happened to Caylee. Casey got angry and told him to stop acting like a cop and act like a father. It was reported by the female body guard, Tracy, that it took Cindy and George's friend, who was visiting from Ohio, to physically removed George from Casey's room.

George stormed out of the house. At that time there was a 24-hour webcam on the Anthony home, and we saw George come out of the garage and turn on the sidewalk. He yelled to one of the reporters that he needed some fresh air and was taking a walk. A while later, we saw Lee come out and get in his car and drive off. He came back about 15 minutes later with George in the car.

In light of the defense's opening statement in which JB claimed that Caylee's death was an accidental drowning in the family pool and that George was the one who found her.............why would George be so upset, demanding to know what happened to Caylee, and have to be physically removed from Casey's room?

This is just one more little thing that refutes the defense's claim. By the time Casey was bonded out of jail in August, I think George and Cindy realized Caylee was deceased. George was overcome by the need to know what happened and where she was. His actions are the actions of a grief-stricken grandparent needing to know why and asking the one person who had the answers.

 

[Stella5]

BBM

I remember this, too. I thought he must be thinking "did I just say that out loud?".

And how could Casey possibly not remember the time???

Exactly!!! I watched my MIL take her last breath and I remember the time 4 years later. Any traumatic event I remember the time, and very vivid details of the event... time, weather, clothes, smells, etc...

She doesn't remember because it didn't happen the way JB told the "story" and JB royally screwed up the opening! I'm sure she remembers when the duct tape was applied to that sweet baby Caylee's face and when she threw her into the trunk. MOO!

My lil' boy is 1 month & 9 days younger than Caylee, and I watch him and imagine how Caylee would be at this age.... what she would like, how she would laugh, the things she would enjoy... It's just so terribly sad.

 

[trixi491]

In the first minutes of his opening statements there were lies and/or comments that were ridiculous...
1) Saying KC took good care of Caylee and she never went without food, shelter, clothes, etc. Umm, the A's bought ALL of those things for her. She didn't work and didn't have money. Any money she would've spent on her daughter was probably stolen from her parents.
2) She lied about working to protect her daughter?? How in any way does that protect her daughter? If these allegations of sexual abuse are true and she wanted to truly protect her, she would actually go out and find a REAL job so she could have the money to get her daughter out of a "child molester's" house and into a safe place of their own. MAKES NO SENSE!

 

[GingBreade]

I don't know if this has been brought up already but I just watched JB's opening statement again and maybe I'm crazy but it seems to me that Jose was trying to plant a seed in the Juror's mind that George could be Caylee's father. Jose said that things w/Lee got so bad that the State tested him regarding Caylee's paternity but he NEVER said that George was tested, didn't bring that up at all. Funny, he did say the sexual abuse didn't go as far w/Lee as it did w/George BUT it got so bad they tested Lee?!? Sure sounds like a contradiction to me.

Also, is he comparing KC's home life to the book/movie, Flowers In The Attic? JB stated that THEY (GA & CA) hid that child like a Flower in the Attic, as I recall a young child about Caylee's age died in that book/movie. IF KC is telling JB this story then I can totally see her making it all up based on reading the book or watching the movie....with all the lies in the past & her imaginary life. I just can't see a grown man/lawyer at that, trying to sell this story to anyone but KC after all the lies, I can see her thinking it will fly since she loves to live in fantasy land. I just hope the Jury can see it.

OMG thank you for mentioning this! I laughed when he said 'flower in the attic' because that was soo absurd. That book was about children hidden in the attic and the BROTHER gets his sister pregnant and they have a child...I can't remember much more but it has nothing to do with a father/daughter incest relationship if I remember correctly. I see where he was TRYING to go with this but most of the jurors have
a)never read the book or heard of the book and think he's crazy
b)did read the book or heard of it and know he got the facts wrong!
c)wish they were now a flower in some attic

 

[Just Jayla]

You guys are so smart....sometimes it leaves me speechless. (im not joking either...that's a true statement).
I agree with everyones "holes" and I honestly haven't read through the whole thread...but my biggest hole is where the heck was Baez's "Aha" moment? I thought we were supposed to sit back and go, "Ooooooooooooh!!! Thats what's up!!" after his first 5 minutes or something.

It still doesn't make sense that she waited 31 days to call authorities.

Much less three years to tell the "*truth*"

There are many more that I have but you guys have all said em...

BBM-I was scared crapless when I first came on here, because I had zero skill at sleuthing compared to these pros. To this day, I would still rate myself at about 20% sleuth, 80% loudmouth (or loudfingers???)
Our fellow members are awesome, huh?

 

[DawnTCB]

:waitasec: Why was ICA so upset when the remains were found? I mean, if she knew the baby drown in the pool and that she was going to take the fall for it, finding the body was really no change in her future.

The only reason I can figure that she would be upset that the body had been found was because she thought she was going to be able to convince her parents that Caylee was "missing" forever, and was freaked out that part of the plan didn't work. If her parents already knew, what difference did it make when the body was found?

And I am still scratching my head over anything JB said GA might have done to frame KC. This gas can thing - he puts duct tape on a can and duct tape on Caylee because ICA had possession of those cans and so also had possession of Caylee... This is a big hole for me. GA might have THOUGHT he had KC under his complete control, and that she would go all the way to the DP rather than challenge him because she was so afraid of him (whatever, she challenged him all the time and he just rolled over, but ok). But he also had to know that at some point she might get fed up with jail and spill the beans. When the body was found would have been a good time for KC to say, well, you should all know it was my dad who hid the baby... GA also could not be 100% sure of what she had told her friends. What if she had told one of these witnesses that she was in trouble and needed their help? It would be incredibly risky (beyond all reasonable doubt risky) for GA to assume she would not have told anyone in 31 days that he was going to force KC to admit to a crime she didn't commit. And if she had, anything he did to frame her would suddenly frame him instead.

Plus, it seems like in those 31 days GA and KC could have concocted a better story than Zanny the Nanny. I mean what, he says "OMG, your mom will never forgive you... I know, I'll put some duct tape on her and pass her to the MR, and you go have fun. And if anyone ever says anything, just say she's with the babysitter. Forever. Now let's never talk about it again.". I don't know, as I have never had to cover up anything criminal, but I would expect they would want to talk once in a while to make sure their story is still straight. GA: "Nope, Mom doesn't suspect anything yet. You still having fun?" KC: "Yep, I was in a hot body contest last night. Big fun!" GA: "I wonder if we should work on an alibi or anything." KC:"Nope, Zanny is the perfect plan. Genius! Let's go with it. Forever. Catch you on the flip side!" Seriously, did they never try to come up with a better plan than just keep pretending Caylee was here and there and all over Florida....forever? That does not seem reasonable at all. In the real life world, where GA was not involved, sure, KC thought that was a great plan and I think the only one she ever had. But in the pretend world JB concocted, I think GA and KC would have had to come up with something better than that. GA was at least smart enough to know that they could not pretend Caylee was at the babysitter's for the rest of her life. He'd been around CA enough to know that she would not just say, "Oh, Caylee's not coming home for her birthday because she's with the babysitter? Bummer. OK, I guess I won't make chili..." Eventually some other explanation would be needed. Why didn't they come up with one?

 

[Donjeta]

Exactly, Dawn. It makes no sense.

But I'm kinda asking myself the same questions regardless of GA's involvement or lack thereof. What the heck was Casey thinking...? Did she think she could just party forever and after N days with Caylee at the phantom babysitter her grandparents would stop asking about her and never wonder what happened to her at all? No one would ever notice that a little girl dropped of the face of the earth? Why didn't she report Caylee missing? If she's of reasonable intelligence she had to have known that it wouldn't look good for a mother to just lose a child without reacting in any manner and if she ever paused to think she had to have known that the police would find out she didn't work at the Universal and that there was no such nanny at no such address etc. Why didn't she come up with a better story?

I suppose it would have thrown a wrench in her partying if she had reported Caylee missing earlier but she must have known that it couldn't last.

 

[gawdess]

I have been really struggling with JB's performance in court the past few days. The calendar thing with GA on the stand yesterday was annoying the heck out of me. I kept thinking "What is the point of all this JB???"

I am not a legal expert, but I feel as though JB is all over the place in his questioning and is not drawing out answers from the witnesses to support the DT's arguments sufficiently. I just don't see a linear process happening from the DT and this may screw them in the end. If I were ICA, I would be seriously considering firing JB and finding counsel who is much more skilled in death penalty cases and cross examination.