Body snatchers?

[Darlene733510]

Did anyone notice the obit date of death is December 26, 1996? I wonder who gave them the info? Did JR or PR slip up? We know they want us to believe the date was the 25th.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

It's pretty interesting that despite the R's getting away with it, we have not seen any other cases where a parent killed their child, left the body in the house, and claimed an intruder did it, in the past 18 years. It's like even murderers know that they need to get rid of the body to have a chance to get away with it. Although, it's obviously possible that someone did pull this stunt, and was arrested right away, and we didn't hear about it.

 

[DeeDee249]

Did anyone notice the obit date of death is December 26, 1996? I wonder who gave them the info? Did JR or PR slip up? We know they want us to believe the date was the 25th.

Maybe the Rs didn't make the decision to put the date of Dec. 25th until they were ordering her gravestone.

 

[tml]

I agree with you in that at least some of the staging took place to throw off the truth of WHERE the original assault took place. Not sure about the nightgown...if the perpetrator redressed JBR for the purpose of obstructing the fact that the crime scene was actually her bedroom, why leave the nightgown there then? I tend to believe it was simply clinging to the white blanket out of the dryer, but then there are issues with that line of thought as well, i.e. BR's touch-DNA and some blood on the nightgown, I believe. If JBR WAS wearing the nightgown, why would it need to be taken off at all? It clearly wasn't soiled when found, so a scenario where she is wearing the gown, assaulted, and changed because it had blood/vomit/fluids on it doesn't ring true. If this crime was motivated by sexual abuse, the attacker could have easily just lifted her gown rather than take it off. In the same line of thought, does the white blanket she was found it tie back to her bedroom? In other words, was that blanket typically in JBR's room? Anyone know?

 

[DeeDee249]

I agree with you in that at least some of the staging took place to throw off the truth of WHERE the original assault took place. Not sure about the nightgown...if the perpetrator redressed JBR for the purpose of obstructing the fact that the crime scene was actually her bedroom, why leave the nightgown there then? I tend to believe it was simply clinging to the white blanket out of the dryer, but then there are issues with that line of thought as well, i.e. BR's touch-DNA and some blood on the nightgown, I believe. If JBR WAS wearing the nightgown, why would it need to be taken off at all? It clearly wasn't soiled when found, so a scenario where she is wearing the gown, assaulted, and changed because it had blood/vomit/fluids on it doesn't ring true. If this crime was motivated by sexual abuse, the attacker could have easily just lifted her gown rather than take it off. In the same line of thought, does the white blanket she was found it tie back to her bedroom? In other words, was that blanket typically in JBR's room? Anyone know?

The white blanket was the one JB always had on her bed. The housekeeper said it was laundered nearly every day, because JB wet the bed nearly every night. When she arrived at the R home in the mornings, Patsy already had the bed stripped and the bedding in the laundry. JB's twin sheets were laundered in a small washer/dryer that was located in a closet just outside JB's room. The blanket didn't fit in the smaller set and the housekeeper said the white blanket was always laundered in the full-size washer/dryer in the basement. The Rs tried to say that the kidnapper took JB from her bed wrapped in that blanket. However, police showed Patsy a crime scene photo of the ned taken that day by forensic investigators. The bed was unmade at the head, but fully made at the foot. The police told Patsy that there was no way a blanket had been pulled off the bed, because if it had, the foot end would not have remained in place. Patsy danced around this a bit, but reluctantly agreed.

 

[tml]

The white blanket was the one JB always had on her bed. The housekeeper said it was laundered nearly every day, because JB wet the bed nearly every night. When she arrived at the R home in the mornings, Patsy already had the bed stripped and the bedding in the laundry. JB's twin sheets were laundered in a small washer/dryer that was located in a closet just outside JB's room. The blanket didn't fit in the smaller set and the housekeeper said the white blanket was always laundered in the full-size washer/dryer in the basement. The Rs tried to say that the kidnapper took JB from her bed wrapped in that blanket. However, police showed Patsy a crime scene photo of the ned taken that day by forensic investigators. The bed was unmade at the head, but fully made at the foot. The police told Patsy that there was no way a blanket had been pulled off the bed, because if it had, the foot end would not have remained in place. Patsy danced around this a bit, but reluctantly agreed.

Thanks DeeDee! Interesting. Just another aspect of the staging and, to me, another indication of the R's guilt. First of all, if this was a blanket that was used everyday and washed everyday, was this particular day just too chaotic to make the beds back up? Leaving it in the dryer downstairs wouldn't be a big deal, I'm sure there were other blankets around. But why lie about it?

Possibly because PR knows full well that blanket was never put back on the bed. That it was in the basement laundry room and hastily grabbed for more than one reason: 1) to wrap JBR up, keep her from getting cold, 2) To connect JBR's body directly with her bed, and 3) Because it was nearby and useful. Much better than running up and down the stairs at 2 am gathering staging supplies.

 

[CorallaroC]

The white blanket was the one JB always had on her bed. The housekeeper said it was laundered nearly every day, because JB wet the bed nearly every night. When she arrived at the R home in the mornings, Patsy already had the bed stripped and the bedding in the laundry. JB's twin sheets were laundered in a small washer/dryer that was located in a closet just outside JB's room. The blanket didn't fit in the smaller set and the housekeeper said the white blanket was always laundered in the full-size washer/dryer in the basement. The Rs tried to say that the kidnapper took JB from her bed wrapped in that blanket. However, police showed Patsy a crime scene photo of the ned taken that day by forensic investigators. The bed was unmade at the head, but fully made at the foot. The police told Patsy that there was no way a blanket had been pulled off the bed, because if it had, the foot end would not have remained in place. Patsy danced around this a bit, but reluctantly agreed.

DeeDee, thank you for sharing your thoughts about the white blanket.... you have a talent for Clarity! The first thing that popped into my mind is that I specifically recall BOTH parents making it a point to say (in more than just 1 interview) that they "tucked her in" that night. Yes? I can even recall PR's hand gestures demonstrating how she tucked the blanket around JBR.

So to help me get this clearer in my mind:
To our knowledge, there is one ONE white blanket (said to be JBR's favorite), is that correct?
The crime scene photo shows the bottom half of the bed still made, but no blanket? and only the Beauty&Beast theme sheets showing on the upper part of the bed where the comforter had been pulled down?

Does this mean that JBR was originally put to bed that night with just a top sheet and no blanket?
When would the blanket have been washed? Christmas Eve? Christmas day before the party at the White's?
I don't recall the parents ever saying whether JBR slept in her own bed Christmas Eve, do you?
So I wonder who would have been the last person to "make the bed" and when was it done?

It just seems to me that if the parents specifically remember tucking her in while she lay sleeping, they would surely remember whether the blanket was on her bed that night, imo

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee, thank you for sharing your thoughts about the white blanket.... you have a talent for Clarity! The first thing that popped into my mind is that I specifically recall BOTH parents making it a point to say (in more than just 1 interview) that they "tucked her in" that night. Yes? I can even recall PR's hand gestures demonstrating how she tucked the blanket around JBR.

So to help me get this clearer in my mind:
To our knowledge, there is one ONE white blanket (said to be JBR's favorite), is that correct?
The crime scene photo shows the bottom half of the bed still made, but no blanket? and only the Beauty&Beast theme sheets showing on the upper part of the bed where the comforter had been pulled down?

Does this mean that JBR was originally put to bed that night with just a top sheet and no blanket?
When would the blanket have been washed? Christmas Eve? Christmas day before the party at the White's?
I don't recall the parents ever saying whether JBR slept in her own bed Christmas Eve, do you?
So I wonder who would have been the last person to "make the bed" and when was it done?

It just seems to me that if the parents specifically remember tucking her in while she lay sleeping, they would surely remember whether the blanket was on her bed that night, imo

First of all, keep in mind that the parents "saying" they tucked her in that night may very well be a lie. Personally, I believe JB was awake when they got home (or woke up as they got home) like BR said. I believe her parents (most likely Patsy) DID get her ready for bed.
As far as the bed...when housekeeper LHP was shown crime photos of the bed, she told police that the sheets on the bed in the photo (the Beauty & the Beast sheets) were NOT the ones she put on the bed the last time she was there, which was the day of the Rs Christmas party on Dec 23. She also told police that JB wet the bed nearly every night- and that when she got there in the morning, Patsy already had the sheets and blanket in the washer.
Patsy was a notoriously sloppy housekeeper- LHP told police there was no hamper in the house and the family simply dropped their clothes on the floor wherever they took them off. Patsy's mother Nedra had criticized Patsy, saying that LHP was there to clean, not to pick up after them. LHP was not scheduled to return to the Rs house until the 26 or 27, after they left for the trip.
My theory is that JB wet the bed again on the night of the 23rd or 24th. Patsy would have removed the wet sheets and blanket, and put clean sheets on the bed without waiting for the white blanket to dry. The blanket, as I mentioned, had to be laundered in the basement because the washer was larger. The sheets could be washed in the laundry area right outside JB's room. Christmas Eve and Day would have been very busy for any mom, but with the combination of the holidays and the imminent double trip (Charlevoix then a Disney cruise) I can totally see why she would just skip the blanket and make the bed up just with clean sheets, leaving LHP to put the blanket back the next time she came. Patsy wouldn't have taken the time to go to the basement and get the blanket. Of course, this made it handy to have the white blanket right there in the basement dryer (something NO intruder, especially a "small foreign faction", would have known) when they needed it to lay JB's body in.
It isn't unusual for there to have been only one blanket for JB's bed. After all, it was washable and LHP said JB had her own "special" blanket. You know how some kids are- they have favorite blankets, pillows, etc. So to me, it is totally believable that Patsy made the bed without the blanket- using only the sheets (including top sheet) and bedspread, knowing it was just for a night anyway.
So to answer your last question- Patsy was likely the last person to make JB's bed.

 

[midwest mama]

It just hit me...the last sheets on JB'S bed were "Beauty and The Beast". Almost morbid:facepalm:...not unlike PR saying the look-a-like Christmas doll in the box looked like JB in a coffin.

 

[UKGuy]

It just hit me...the last sheets on JB'S bed were "Beauty and The Beast". Almost morbid:facepalm:...not unlike PR saying the look-a-like Christmas doll in the box looked like JB in a coffin.

midwest mama,
Or, is it a staging error, alike the size-12's? Since if the R's knew at 2 am they intended to stage a kidapping, how come they never staged the slept in bed as befitted a kidnapped girl?

Its the same question as the breakfast bar, how come they never cleaned it up?

I reckon the answer is not the same as most of the RDI theories, particularly those found in the published books!

.

 

[andreww]

midwest mama,
Or, is it a staging error, alike the size-12's? Since if the R's knew at 2 am they intended to stage a kidapping, how come they never staged the slept in bed as befitted a kidnapped girl?

Its the same question as the breakfast bar, how come they never cleaned it up?

I reckon the answer is not the same as most of the RDI theories, particularly those found in the published books!

.

I often wonder if what actually happened is just so far off of what we all think. I don't think there was ever an intruder, but whose to say the Ramseys didn't have other guests over that night? Whose to say these people weren't in to something quite deviant? We just don't know because the three people we know were there aren't talking.

 

[UKGuy]

I often wonder if what actually happened is just so far off of what we all think. I don't think there was ever an intruder, but whose to say the Ramseys didn't have other guests over that night? Whose to say these people weren't in to something quite deviant? We just don't know because the three people we know were there aren't talking.

andreww,
ITA. Yet for some of those theories, they completely fail to explain why important elements of the staging were just left out, and that leaves me thinking that is much more to the death of JonBenet?

.

 

[andreww]

andreww,
ITA. Yet for some of those theories, they completely fail to explain why important elements of the staging were just left out, and that leaves me thinking that is much more to the death of JonBenet?

.

Not exactly sure what you mean by elements of the staging being left out?

 

[UKGuy]

Not exactly sure what you mean by elements of the staging being left out?

andreww,
Too many to list. e.g. no blanket on her bed, pants on her bedroom floor, breakfast bar not cleaned up, barbie nightgown in the wine-cellar, i.e. did the intruder redress JonBenet in that as well as the size-12's?

Some of the theories explain what we know about some of the staging, i.e. BDI, but much is just left out. Which I why I reckon the real story is probably more intricate, or could not be made up, etc.

.

 

[887sMtreme]

Could JB have actually used Size 12s over diapers, and they were removed, then replaced sans diaper? I have no idea if that makes sense, because I have never had, or cared for, a child. Some diapers are pretty trim, apparently, while others have enough volume. Were disposables ever found? Since JB had toilet control issues, it seems reasonable that she might have routinely been readied for bed with diapers.

 

[UKGuy]

Could JB have actually used Size 12s over diapers, and they were removed, then replaced sans diaper? I have no idea if that makes sense, because I have never had, or cared for, a child. Some diapers are pretty trim, apparently, while others have enough volume. Were disposables ever found? Since JB had toilet control issues, it seems reasonable that she might have routinely been readied for bed with diapers.

887sMtreme,
So where did the diapers go?

 

[887sMtreme]

Scooped up by PR's sister, along with lots of other evidence? I don't know. Just raising the question.

 

[DeeDee249]

887sMtreme,
So where did the diapers go?

The diapers were seen and noted by police, sticking out of a cabinet near JB's room. ST was one of the investigators who wondered why a child of 6 would still need Pull-Ups.

 

[DeeDee249]

andreww,
Too many to list. e.g. no blanket on her bed, pants on her bedroom floor, breakfast bar not cleaned up, barbie nightgown in the wine-cellar, i.e. did the intruder redress JonBenet in that as well as the size-12's?

Some of the theories explain what we know about some of the staging, i.e. BDI, but much is just left out. Which I why I reckon the real story is probably more intricate, or could not be made up, etc.

.

All easily explainable. I've explained the sheets so many times, I won't do it again. There is nothing unusual, ominous, or odd about the messy kitchen counters or breakfast area. Patsy was a well-know slob, even her mother commented on it. The housekeeper said, in addition to clothes strewn about the house, the kitchen was always messy. She described lids not put back on the peanut butter jar, etc. This was an everyday occurrence in the house and not staging at all. LHP was due to come back to the house after the family left for the trip, and with all Patsy had to do between Christmas and leaving for the trip, I think anyone can see that Patsy would have simply left the mess for LHP to deal with when she came.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
There is plenty of staging that took place in the wine cellar and with the body. Doesn't mean every single thing in the house was staging. I do not believe JB's bedroom OR the kitchen/dining area had any staging at all. The tea bag, glass pineapple bowl, tissues- all items simply left in place from the last time they were used- and later Patsy (unsuccessfully) TRIED to distance herself from it. The sheets were put on the bed by Patsy, and she did not bother to get the blanket from the basement. The end.