Book released by Defense Attorney, Nov 2015 #2

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Madeleine74 said:
Yes and that's the exact message LKN wants the readers to know. That was and is his whole angle here. He wants people to understand he got stuck with her as a client and could not get away from her, despite trying. The rest though (his strategy and tactics), that's on him, ultimately. But no doubt about it: he was between a rock and hard place. Can anyone say they would ever want to be in his position? We can imagine ourselves in Juan's position, fighting for justice for a victim of a crime. But imagine being stuck with a JA type and you have no choice. Ugh.
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No, I can't imagine being in his position. But then, I can't imagine choosing to be a DP qualified defense attorney.

My DH is an attorney (civil), and at one point many years ago I considered going to law school to practice as a criminal trial attorney.

Thankfully I had enough knowledge of self to know I wouldn't survive long in that career. I understood that to be a prosecutor meant that I had the angels on my side in a righteous fight for justice, but that ultimately the fight would never be solely about truth or justice, which I'd find intolerable, especially given the responsibility I'd feel towards the families of victims.

And I knew that because of my deep respect for the ideals of our constitutional and legal systems, there would be considerable intellectual reward in defending the abhorrent and vicious. Intellectual rewards for me, though, would not be enough. Victory would mean setting free defendants - clients- that more often than not I'd presume to be guilty of terrible crimes.

So, I can't imagine being on either side. But....Nurmi could. Part of what some here keep saying comes back to the fact it was indeed his choice to defend the worst of the worst. The fact that he actually drew one of the worst as a client was a predictable consequence of the profession he chose and that he had been practicing long enough to have left if he found it intolerable.

By his own admission, what he found most abhorrent about JA wasn't the murder she committed. Remember? He didn't even think her premeditated butchering of Travis warranted the DP. What ultimately he found inexcusable was simply that he couldn't control her as a client, and that in his mind the whole world was watching him forced to present a defense not of his choice.

That IMO is about ego, and little else. Why else would he care what The Trial Watchers thought of him?
 
G&AMom said:
I thought it got delayed because Jodi's current attorneys filed a motion to prevent publication until they'd been assured there was nothing in the book that would harm Jodi's appeals.

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk
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Pfffft... Jodi would swear off pop rocks forever if she thought it would make that book give her a valid shot at an appeal. Or a lawsuit. Anything. Prison must be such a drag by now. [emoji57]

Think the delays are for editing, and that may be via the publishers legal department more than anyone else.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
 
Hope4More said:
By his own admission, what he found most abhorrent about JA wasn't the murder she committed. Remember? He didn't even think her premeditated butchering of Travis warranted the DP. What ultimately he found inexcusable was simply that he couldn't control her as a client, and that in his mind the whole world was watching him forced to present a defense not of his choice.

Cry me a river.
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Yes good point. For myself I wasn't quite sure if this particular murder met the DP standard. Not that it couldn't have and ultimately did for AZ, but when I compared this case to other DP cases that were so clearly DP cases (like the Petit murders, as one example, although the state overturned the DP and those killers are now in prison for LWOP), this one was more on the borderline for me. I could have seen it going either way and as long as she was put away for life, society would be safe from her. In the end she's in the exact same cell, going nowhere, forever.
 
T-4-2 said:
snipped


Thanks. Very good points. Nurmi claims he defended her the way he did because it was the only way he could keep her off death row. And he certainly implies mightily (possibly says outright, I may have missed it) that it's unfair and ignorant for people to judge him so harshly for doing his job in the only possible way in which he could do it.

I just can't help thinking that a good lawyer would have been able to see options. Isn't that what lawyers do? Nurmi settled on a terrible option and should be held accountable -- whether or not he was trapped with Ms. Arias.

I didn't mean for "my parameters" to be read as "my parameters," but rather just a very basic list of the minimum requirements for a defense attorney (which I had to look up since I really know very little about these things). I also didn't mean to leave any part of Nurmi's performance out of my "what could he have done differently?" question. Based on what he's saying now, he's putting it ALL on other people. Jodi made him do it. Juan Martinez made him do it. The judge made him do it. He takes no responsibility for his choices and behavior and doesn't even acknowledge that they were unnecessary and unnecessarily vile (gee, who does that sound like?) He sounds like he's trying to find some sort of "get out of jail free" card. He also sounds like he is fully aware of the magnitude of his errors of judgement and that is precisely why he's trying to shift the blame. (One of the reasons he might try to blame JM could be that -- in Nurmi's mind -- JM set the stage for a dirty fight and Nurmi had to fight dirty in return. JM was certainly very harsh and aggressive, but he wasn't dirty. Nurmi came off looking harsh, aggressive, and dirty... and in more than one sense of the word).

He had options! You point out some good ones. First and foremost there was NO need for him to "guild the lily." (Not only present Jodi's defense but also dump in truckload after truckload of his own ugly behavior.) He went way over and above the call of duty and destroyed his reputation in the process (in a cut-off-his-nose-to-spite-his-face sort of way). Surely with the state of Arizona's bank account at his disposal, he had access to jury/trial consultants whom he could have, well, consulted. They would have been able to give him some options.

Hmm... I just thought of Jodi's request for a plea deal, the one in which she threatens (barely veiled in legalese) to make everyone really sorry if she's tried for first degree murder. Do you suppose Nurmi's behavior was in any way directed at the judge for not letting him withdraw... like a whiny kid who intentionally botches his chores so that his parents stop making him do chores?
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T's family and friends were the only people the killer threatened to torment with her lies should she be forced to fully account for premeditated murder.

Nurmi can spin that "plea offer" all he wants ( oh, I tried to warn JM where I was being forced to go, but he didn't heed the warning). The "offer" was a delusional threat, nothing more.

I give Nurmi enough benefit of the doubt to believe he didn't try to retaliate against JSS for keeping him on. Blaming JM? That's different.
 
MistyM said:
nurmi thinks he 'won'. imho i only see him #winning if he had actually convinced the jury that jodi killed travis in self defense, and that she really had soap opera amnesia. she was found guilty of premeditation, unusually cruel, and thanks to a few sketchy jurors she got 'lucky'. but if he wants to believe that's a win, so be it. i think they failed miserably and made fools of themselves.

i understand he had to go with her story, but he could have focused more on jodi's 'fragile' mental state than how much travis deserved to be butchered. and all the sex stuff (which i find he was the lawyer that was always talking about it), just made him look skeevy.
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Right, Nurmi lost. Especially because he still believes JA did not premeditate, and all 12 original jurors reached the verdict of premeditated murder.

JA premeditated 30 times. 1 time when she made plans in Yreka to kill Travis, each of 27 times when she decided to stab, 1 time when she slitted his throat, and 1 time when she shot him in the face. JM kept telling the jury premeditation doesn't take a long period of time, it can be very short, it doesn't even take planning, just thinking about it is needed. Each and every time JA raised her knife and stabbed him, she was thinking I want to kill him. Why Nurmi can't see the premeditation is beyond me.
 
Madeleine74 said:
Yes and that's the exact message LKN wants the readers to know. That was and is his whole angle here. He wants people to understand he got stuck with her as a client and could not get away from her, despite trying. The rest though (his strategy and tactics), that's on him, ultimately. But no doubt about it: he was between a rock and hard place. Can anyone say they would ever want to be in his position? We can imagine ourselves in Juan's position, fighting for justice for a victim of a crime. But imagine being stuck with a JA type and you have no choice. Ugh.
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I will agree he's a victim of PTSD (kinda like Jodi's), but he's hardly innocent. He had choices as Hope has pointed out. He could have kept his integrity. But it seems you forget we WATCHED him for months in that courtroom and he chose his own questions and own emphasis and how many times we had to "back up a minute" to run the truck back over Travis and his reputation. He was no puppet. Even he doesn't think that, smarty pants that he is, Trial Watchers. :wink: He knew that she was a sociopathic killer, even if he still doesn't want to admit that to himself.

That is where us "black and white" posters draw the line. He has to recognize it himself before we can give him compassion over his personal choices. When you become a death qualified attorney, you have to understand the type of client you will have. Snow White may have been a victim of domestic violence (:lol: ) but Cinderalla isn't a killer. If he didn't understand that reality, then he's less intelligent than I've given him credit for.
 
IfIMay said:
That is where us "black and white" posters draw the line. He has to recognize it himself before we can give him compassion over his personal choices. When you become a death qualified attorney, you have to understand the type of client you will have. Snow White may have been a victim of domestic violence (:lol: ) but Cinderalla isn't a killer. If he didn't understand that reality, then he's less intelligent than I've given him credit for.
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That's an articulate argument in the "shades of grey" category, IMO.

By the way, I note that ALV has elaborated her Snow White talk, and has continued to present it. Are CA therapists getting CE credit for that c****p? Unreal.
 
IfIMay said:
But it seems you forget we WATCHED him for months in that courtroom and he chose his own questions and own emphasis and how many times we had to "back up a minute" to run the truck back over Travis and his reputation. He was no puppet.
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I forgot nothing, hun. Nor did I ever say Nurmi was a puppet. I'm not a Nurmi sympathizer, I did say that in one of my earlier posts in this thread. I also said Nurmi was responsible for the strategy and tactics he chose to use. His being assigned JA as a client--that was not in his control.
 
Now, for a short commercial break in the thread.
" . . . the fact that she was using some of her final words to the judge to attack me, rather than take responsibility, spoke volumes about Arias and her character. This was the vengeful woman who had killed Travis, the woman with whom I had sparred for days on the witness stand, this was the woman I'd convicted of first degree murder." – Juan Martinez, author of CONVICTION: The Untold Story of Putting Jodi Arias Behind Bars
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The first official quote from JM's book due out February 16, 2016.

http://corporate.harpercollins.com/... OF THE JODI ARIAS MURDER TRIAL BY PROSECUTOR
 
Becky Sharp said:
Wow. Compare that elegant prose to the slop that Nurmi is hawking. Speaks volumes to me.

Thanks, CarolinaMoon!
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I cannot wait for this book! Finally, some sense and some perspective from a capable and inspiring attorney and human being. No matter what Nurms writes in his last two volumes (LOL! - you know he is waiting to see what Juan wrote about him. Because he is still a fat, maligned middle-schooler at heart being bullied on the playground), Mr. Martinez' book will be the definitive word on this particular killer and her trial.
 
Becky Sharp said:
Wow. Compare that elegant prose to the slop that Nurmi is hawking. Speaks volumes to me.

Thanks, CarolinaMoon!
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JM may have had a partner in writing the book, but the words are so much his own. The man is a master of the English language in and out of the courtroom.

I have no doubt he will not trash Nurmi in the sense that Nurmi trashed him. If he has anything negative to say, he will explain clearly why and in a professional manner.
 
Here's a radio interview that Laurence had with King Jorden on 12/17 about his book:

(starts off with JM in the courtroom and the murderer on the stand - "brain scrambling- prosecutors fault"- 'til about 3:00, then Laurence speaks)

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/kingjo...uss-his-new-book-jodi-arias-trial-12-17-930es

I only listened 'til about 18:30 because of BW issues, so if anyone listens, could you post what was said? I would appreciate it very much.
I'm interested because people could call and ask Laurence questions- wonder if any did???
 
Some defense attorney's take on Laurence's book:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kirk Nurmi’s Roll In The Jodi Arias Mud

"How cool is it that a lawyer can write a tell-all book after his involvement in a huge, high-profile case? Not cool at all, actually. Not that Kirk Nurmi wasn’t rip-roaring to go about how much he hated representing Jodi Arias, how horrible, inappropriate and twisted she was. Was it all that anger that needed to get out? Was it that he wanted to parlay an unpleasant experience into turning himself into a big name? Was it for the money?

Who knows, but in the process, Kirk Nurmi did what a lawyer cannot do. He violated confidentiality...

It doesn’t matter how awful, how horrible, how inappropriate your client was or is. It’s not your story to tell. Kirk Nurmi is a disgrace for having done so. He should be disbarred and the book should be pulled from the shelves and destroyed. A criminal defense lawyer is not entitled to give up his client’s confidences no matter what, and it is an intolerable affront to the profession that Nurmi has done so. There is never an excuse to trash a client, no matter how bad she is. Never."

http://blog.simplejustice.us/2015/12/04/kirk-nurmis-roll-in-the-jody-arias-mud/
--

A Disgrace

It appears that at some point the fame finally got to L. Kirk Nurmi, former lawyer for celebrity capital defendant Jodi Arias. After he came out with a tell-all book about representing his famous client called “Trapped with Ms. Arias,” the equivalent of wiping his *advertiser censored* with ER 1.6, Scott Greenfield at Simple Justice got right to the root of the problem:...

I want to feel bad Nurmi, but I just can’t. Even though he apparently has cancer, there’s no serious illness exception to our duty to our clients. If he was on his death bed with the best client story ever, that still doesn’t change a thing. He’s very clearly not in the right field, as a good defense attorney simply doesn’t do the sort of thing he’s doing.

If it’s fame he wants, he should move to LA and wait tables until he gets discovered. Furthering his own agenda at the expense of a client is as unforgivable a crime as a defense attorney can commit."

http://brownandlittlelaw.com/2015/12/11/a-disgrace/
---

And from one of the murderer's supporters:

RAISING THE BAR – BUT CERTAINLY NOT IN ARIZONA

"...This is an excerpt from the book Jodi Arias’ defense (and I use the term loosely) attorney wrote, possibly on the back of toilet paper, after he was released from a case he did not win or even remotely tried with professionalism, competence or common sense. I would imagine that this pathetic attempt at redeeming his image or boost his legal career, might eventually cost him more than he bargained for.

I do not know what is in the water in Arizona, but the prosecutor working the same case is also publishing a book, probably available during the Holidays and so handy to offer as the gift that keeps on giving for those eager to spew hatred..."

http://www.thetroublewithjustice.com/raising-the-bar-but-certainly-not-in-arizona/
----

And this, about JM's book:

PRESS RELEASE
WILLIAM MORROW TO PUBLISH THE ULTIMATE INSIDER ACCOUNT OF THE JODI ARIAS MURDER TRIAL BY PROSECUTOR JUAN MARTINEZ

"..." . . . the fact that she was using some of her final words to the judge to attack me, rather than take responsibility, spoke volumes about Arias and her character. This was the vengeful woman who had killed Travis, the woman with whom I had sparred for days on the witness stand, this was the woman I'd convicted of first degree murder." – Juan Martinez, author of CONVICTION: The Untold Story of Putting Jodi Arias Behind Bars...

The book will be published on February 16, 2016...

Complete with 16 pages of photos from the case and trial, this book is the definitive account of the case that shocked America...."

http://corporate.harpercollins.com/... OF THE JODI ARIAS MURDER TRIAL BY PROSECUTOR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
YESorNO said:
Some defense attorney's take on Laurence's book:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kirk Nurmi’s Roll In The Jodi Arias Mud

"How cool is it that a lawyer can write a tell-all book after his involvement in a huge, high-profile case? Not cool at all, actually. Not that Kirk Nurmi wasn’t rip-roaring to go about how much he hated representing Jodi Arias, how horrible, inappropriate and twisted she was. Was it all that anger that needed to get out? Was it that he wanted to parlay an unpleasant experience into turning himself into a big name? Was it for the money?

Who knows, but in the process, Kirk Nurmi did what a lawyer cannot do. He violated confidentiality...

It doesn’t matter how awful, how horrible, how inappropriate your client was or is. It’s not your story to tell. Kirk Nurmi is a disgrace for having done so. He should be disbarred and the book should be pulled from the shelves and destroyed. A criminal defense lawyer is not entitled to give up his client’s confidences no matter what, and it is an intolerable affront to the profession that Nurmi has done so. There is never an excuse to trash a client, no matter how bad she is. Never."

http://blog.simplejustice.us/2015/12/04/kirk-nurmis-roll-in-the-jody-arias-mud/
--

A Disgrace

It appears that at some point the fame finally got to L. Kirk Nurmi, former lawyer for celebrity capital defendant Jodi Arias. After he came out with a tell-all book about representing his famous client called “Trapped with Ms. Arias,” the equivalent of wiping his *advertiser censored* with ER 1.6, Scott Greenfield at Simple Justice got right to the root of the problem:...

I want to feel bad Nurmi, but I just can’t. Even though he apparently has cancer, there’s no serious illness exception to our duty to our clients. If he was on his death bed with the best client story ever, that still doesn’t change a thing. He’s very clearly not in the right field, as a good defense attorney simply doesn’t do the sort of thing he’s doing.

If it’s fame he wants, he should move to LA and wait tables until he gets discovered. Furthering his own agenda at the expense of a client is as unforgivable a crime as a defense attorney can commit."

http://brownandlittlelaw.com/2015/12/11/a-disgrace/
---

And from one of the murderer's supporters:

RAISING THE BAR – BUT CERTAINLY NOT IN ARIZONA

"...This is an excerpt from the book Jodi Arias’ defense (and I use the term loosely) attorney wrote, possibly on the back of toilet paper, after he was released from a case he did not win or even remotely tried with professionalism, competence or common sense. I would imagine that this pathetic attempt at redeeming his image or boost his legal career, might eventually cost him more than he bargained for.

I do not know what is in the water in Arizona, but the prosecutor working the same case is also publishing a book, probably available during the Holidays and so handy to offer as the gift that keeps on giving for those eager to spew hatred..."

http://www.thetroublewithjustice.com/raising-the-bar-but-certainly-not-in-arizona/
----

And this, about JM's book:

PRESS RELEASE
WILLIAM MORROW TO PUBLISH THE ULTIMATE INSIDER ACCOUNT OF THE JODI ARIAS MURDER TRIAL BY PROSECUTOR JUAN MARTINEZ

"..." . . . the fact that she was using some of her final words to the judge to attack me, rather than take responsibility, spoke volumes about Arias and her character. This was the vengeful woman who had killed Travis, the woman with whom I had sparred for days on the witness stand, this was the woman I'd convicted of first degree murder." – Juan Martinez, author of CONVICTION: The Untold Story of Putting Jodi Arias Behind Bars...

The book will be published on February 16, 2016...

Complete with 16 pages of photos from the case and trial, this book is the definitive account of the case that shocked America...."

http://corporate.harpercollins.com/... OF THE JODI ARIAS MURDER TRIAL BY PROSECUTOR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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"The trouble with justice" is nothing but a pro JA website with all kinds of distressing mis-information. All the JAII groupies are praising this article. It was sickening to read. They completely exonerate CMJA for all her manipulations and savage attack on TA. And actually tells the readers, the victim's family should go home and move on. Said CMJA was depressed being in that horrible jail. There are worse jails and some are right here in my state of MO. Jail isn't supposed to be pleasant like a hotel. She was in 23 hour lock down because of her behavior. I think she had a lot of perks before that lockdown that other prisoners in other jails didn't have. She was in there for a brutal murder. She took another human beings life. He doesn't get a second chance, why should she? I only agree that Nurmi's writing a book trashing his client should be punished by disbarring him.
 
I only agree that Nurmi's writing a book trashing his client should be punished by disbarring him.
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Hating & trashing your client is not grounds for disbarment, just like telling a jury that 9 days out of 10 you don't like your own client is also not grounds for disbarment. As long as Nurmi didn't divulge info considered attorney/client privilege, it's not an ethical violation. You may dislike Nurmi and everything he said (many do, afterall, for good reason), but he is still playing by the bar association rules and staying within the line.
 
Madeleine74 said:
Hating & trashing your client is not grounds for disbarment, just like telling a jury that 9 days out of 10 you don't like your own client is also not grounds for disbarment. As long as Nurmi didn't divulge info considered attorney/client privilege, it's not an ethical violation. You may dislike Nurmi and everything he said (many do, afterall, for good reason), but he is still playing by the bar association rules and staying within the line.
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BBM

But it sounds like attorneys are saying that he did divulge things that were privileged info and did break the bar association rules. I have no way of knowing whether he did or didn't, but experts seem to think he crossed the line. I would think Nurmi would know how far he could go. I wish one of our WS attorneys would chime in on this.
 
Lilibet said:
BBM

But it sounds like attorneys are saying that he did divulge things that were privileged info and did break the bar association rules. I have no way of knowing whether he did or didn't, but experts seem to think he crossed the line. I would think Nurmi would know how far he could go. I wish one of our WS attorneys would chime in on this.
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Agree. He is allowed to write a book about his encounters of his pursuit for justice. Cough cough.

Now we all know that Jodi was a marvelous painter. But those paintings; Nor her tutu making endeavors wasn't enough to cover his real fees. Lol

So he decided to get paid other ways without bashing Travis nor downplaying Jodies guilt. So he simply angled things in a different perspective while still ensuring a payday without really stepping on toes since he was documenting his experiences with the case and possibly gave a little history of dealings with jm from other cases. Jmo
 
??

Nurmi was paid handsomely during those years, by the tax payers of AZ. Paid far more than ADA JM.
 
Behind Kirk Nurmi’s “Trapped With Ms. Arias.”

"...Full disclosure dictates that I admit that I haven’t read Nurmi’s book. I won’t spend a dime on anything that will benefit L. Kirk Nurmi. In my mind, he’s collected his thirty pieces of silver over and over again (yes, when you run with your guilty client’s need to paint her already destroyed victim as a sexual deviant with whom we are better off without, you’ve wandered into Judas Iscariot territory). I’ve read the section of the book that Nurmi offers for free on Amazon, and I’ve read plenty of excerpts online. I’ve read the reviews of his book, and I’ve seen him interviewed by numerous television hosts as he continues on his publicity (pity) tour...."

https://behindthewordswithkim.wordpress.com/2015/12/19/219/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Murder, Especially the Jodi Arias Case, Can Be Mesmerizing

"...Dr. Bonn, author of a recent book on serial killers, has written to Jodi Arias to ask her to participate in a book about how her legal process has proceeded over the years under the white hot glare of unrelenting media coverage. If she says yes his readers may get a glimpse of what it’s like to be on the receiving end of a justice system that struggles mightily — yet fruitlessly — to stay detached from public opinion."

http://dianedimond.net/murder-especially-the-jodi-arias-case-can-be-mesmerizing/
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